Camp vs Straight acting

[B_dxjnorto]

I've seen gay guys turn it off and on.

Yeah me too. Smart guy. Good comments.

 

[Bbucko]

Polari is from the UK and it's slang and it does not apply to the US at all. That being said if a guy is femmey or a swishy queen it is totally fake. As far as what you wrote about the NY Times how they supposedly only use homosexual as a word and not gay, please stop being so PC. There is nothing wrong with the use of the word homosexual over gay. What's so wrong with using homosexual to describe someone's sexuality or your own? I use it all the time and it certainly does fit me as I have never been sexually attracted to women or had sex with any.

The Oxford English Dictionary, which claimed that the origin of the word camp "is obscure", is most definitely from the UK. Further, if you understand that, for example, when someone refers to "a basket" they are referring to a trouser bulge, then you've been exposed to Polari: it's part of our vocabulary as gay men (as is the word gay itself, BTW) and not indigenous to the United Kingdom at all. I learned about Polari from an Aussie.

As to the whole "PC" bullshit: yeah. You go with that. Allowing individuals to determine how they are to be referred to by broader society is obviously some attempt to undermine the pinnings of logical thought and self-evidently the proper target of scorn and ridicule. The fact that you find certain labels acceptable means that anyone who may disagree with you is cruising for yet another way to self-victimize, because you have it all figured out for everybody.

 

[B_BadBoyBilly]

The Oxford English Dictionary, which claimed that the origin of the word camp "is obscure", is most definitely from the UK. Further, if you understand that, for example, when someone refers to "a basket" they are referring to a trouser bulge, then you've been exposed to Polari: it's part of our vocabulary as gay men (as is the word gay itself, BTW) and not indigenous to the United Kingdom at all. I learned about Polari from an Aussie.

As to the whole "PC" bullshit: yeah. You go with that. Allowing individuals to determine how they are to be referred to by broader society is obviously some attempt to undermine the pinnings of logical thought and self-evidently the proper target of scorn and ridicule. The fact that you find certain labels acceptable means that anyone who may disagree with you is cruising for yet another way to self-victimize, because you have it all figured out for everybody.

Self victimize? I'm not the one who is so hurt and offended by the fact that the word gay is not used in certain newspapers and other publications and that homosexual is instead used. Get over yourself and stop having a martyr complex. The 1970s and 80s are over dude! Nobody cares about the so called gay/GLBT culture or community that have never existed.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

OK chaps, this isn't a debate on Queer politics it's about people's attraction to other people, and what's behind it. There's no need to get un-civil :wink:

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Everything we do is as real as we believe it is. Even when we lie we believe it is the reponse that is necessary in the circumcimstance. Therefore No one is fake.
As to femme or masculine they both are roles taught by society. The more we can see ourselves a persons beyond role the more we can accept ech other for their own unique selves be it more emotional or mathematical thinkers.
Both are distinct languages but there based on the same content. Some how male patterned perception has always had a greater sense of value based on the our societies programming and the number of male authorities promoting this agenda.
This type of missinformation leads to the settlement that femme men, women and transgendered men to woman are of lesser value. The idea that assimilating to a more masculine state will offer to you a greater postioin in society, is both a limitation to seeing beyond gender role as well as an attempt to impose negative stigmatizations on those who have gender identities different to that masculine identification.

This is really interesting, I suspect it's pretty much what I think too.

But I'm intriuged if this informs your own personal sexual preferences ?

 

[Countryguy63]

My bullets are dead.:biggrin1:

Oh, but my bullets are loaded, and my gun is cocked :wink: :biggrin1: Now, where's my flank strap??

It's not obscure, it's Polari. And the OED's refusal to recognize it as such reminds me of the New York Times' refusal to use the word "gay" when describing homosexuality or homosexuals: how can we have any pride in our heritage, history and culture when vanguards of respectibility won't even recognize its existence?

"Straight acting & appearing" sticks in my craw because it seems to validate a lie: that being gay and being masculine are mutually exclusive propositions. If you are gay and "act straight" then you're perpetuating not just one but two stereotypes, one about straight guys and one about yourself. There is nothing more artificial (and ironically, camp) than pretending to be something you are not.

I came out in high school in 1977 and never looked back for a minute. But my gayness doesn't mean I'm swish; I'm not and never really was. But recognizing that I'm gay means living my life as true to myself as possible, not beholden to the expectations and negative judgments of a society that finds me loathsome anyway.

I personally don't care what they call it. Being Bi, I'm called lot's of things :wink:. It's all labels to me.

Both of the expressions "Straight acting" and "Gay acting" stick in my craw also. What the heck do they mean? The only time I am "acting straight" is when I am romantically and intimately involved with a woman. Likewise, the only time that I am "acting gay" is similar actions with men. Otherwise, I'm just being me, and not acting.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Oh, but my bullets are loaded, and my gun is cocked :wink: :biggrin1: Now, where's my flank strap??





I personally don't care what they call it. Being Bi, I'm called lot's of things :wink:. It's all labels to me.

Both of the expressions "Straight acting" and "Gay acting" stick in my craw also. What the heck do they mean? The only time I am "acting straight" is when I am romantically and intimately involved with a woman. Likewise, the only time that I am "acting gay" is similar actions with men. Otherwise, I'm just being me, and not acting.

My use of the term "straight acting" in my OP merely reflects a trend in how gay men self identify, to me the term is ugly and has all kinds of stupid connotations already expressed by other posters about the presumption that somehow being gay is not masculine.


But I'm using the term because it's commonly used and readily understandable on that basis. I'm sorry it caused so much controversy, because it's now becoming a distraction.

 

[BigLittleMan]

I honestly started this thread because I was interested by why some guys seemed to not be able to find certain types of guys attractive.

there are almost an unlimited number of aspects anyone could name which could be applied to the "attractiveness" of another person. and, there are multiple combinations of these which also affect attractiveness. for example, i tend to be attracted to short men with dark hair. am i attracted to a short man with dark hair who is an asshole and happens to smoke? no. (i am not implying smoking makes people assholes but it is pretty disgusting.)

maybe i'm not getting the point of this thread? people aren't always going to find you attractive, regardless of who you are or how you act. the same goes for everyone.

 

[B_dxjnorto]

This is really interesting, I suspect it's pretty much what I think too.

He does state it very well and comprehensively and combines ideas to show true insight.

 

[Countryguy63]

Hi hilaire,

Please don't be sorry. It was just me expressing my feelings about it, and yes, you're correct, in doing so, I distracted from the original purpose of this thread. I'm the one who needs to apologize, and I do.

The poster above pretty much expresses what I was unsuccessfully trying to in one of my previous posts.
We all have characteristics that wer'e not attracted to, as well as, we all possess characteristics that others are not attracted to. As I said, no matter what those may be, there are others that do find it attractive.
.
.
.
But all in all, in the end, what does it matter in a FLESHPILE ??

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

there are almost an unlimited number of aspects anyone could name which could be applied to the "attractiveness" of another person. and, there are multiple combinations of these which also affect attractiveness. for example, i tend to be attracted to short men with dark hair. am i attracted to a short man with dark hair who is an asshole and happens to smoke? no. (i am not implying smoking makes people assholes but it is pretty disgusting.)

maybe i'm not getting the point of this thread? people aren't always going to find you attractive, regardless of who you are or how you act. the same goes for everyone.

I'm not asking what people find attractive, I am asking why they think they are attracted to certain types and not others.

The wider question I was also asking was why it seemed that gay guys tend to be attracted to guys who are similar to themselves and not guys who are unalike to themselves.

I made the point that I'm personally attracted to all kinds of guys, similar to me or not.

The business of camp was an example of a particular expression of this, in that masculine gay guys often say they aren't attracted to more feminine or camp guys. I simply wondered if they had any idea why that might be.

 

[D_Tim McGnaw]

Hi hilaire,

Please don't be sorry. It was just me expressing my feelings about it, and yes, you're correct, in doing so, I distracted from the original purpose of this thread. I'm the one who needs to apologize, and I do.

The poster above pretty much expresses what I was unsuccessfully trying to in one of my previous posts.
We all have characteristics that wer'e not attracted to, as well as, we all possess characteristics that others are not attracted to. As I said, no matter what those may be, there are others that do find it attractive.
.
.
.
But all in all, in the end, what does it matter in a FLESHPILE ??

What iz zees "fleshpile" you zpeak ov Herr Countryguy63 ? :biggrin1:


Don't know why I wrote that in a comedy german accent but LOL

 

[Countryguy63]

What iz zees "fleshpile" you zpeak ov Herr Countryguy63 ? :biggrin1:


Don't know why I wrote that in a comedy german accent but LOL

Judging from your gallery and personality,,, if you weren't way over in Ireland, I'd have no problem getting volunteers to help me introduce you to this :wink: :biggrin1: :wink: :biggrin1:

 

[B_Hung Jon]

Being femmey or a queen is a fake act for the most part. Most gay men are not femmey queens at all. Urban homos think that they define homosexuality for everyone else and that we should all strive to move to a gay ghetto and spend tons of money and become femmey queens like they are.

I don't feel so negative about this. I feel people should be free to be who they are. Many "feminine" gay guys are naturally that way. Some are affected. I don't find it weird or off-putting. I don't think that urban gay guys feel everyone should be like them. I do think though that many males find feminine behavior in other males disturbing, but I'm not one of them. :smile:

 

[B_am12388]

I don't feel so negative about this. I feel people should be free to be who they are. Many "feminine" gay guys are naturally that way. Some are affected. I don't find it weird or off-putting. I don't think that urban gay guys feel everyone should be like them. I do think though that many males find feminine behavior in other males disturbing, but I'm not one of them. :smile:

Yay!

 

[bigbull29]

I got a pile of flesh between my legs.

 

[engorged]

i saw two camp queen types on the weekend going to gym together. they both wore the same outfits, hairstyles, goatees and jesus christ, they must have done the same workout becuase their builds looked the same.

it got me thinking. ok, it was a major turn off. These guys would have long lost touch of anything "male" other than body parts.

But, why would they express themselves so idientically, and even partner with someone so similar.

I had a tough time getting used to being gay. To me, it seems that some guys dont get used to it, and express themselves by such mimickry, without getting a true understanding of who they are, maybe because deep down they are uncomfortable with who they are?

Not that this is uncommon. This happens all throught the community, not just the queenies. The amount of married people i haved worked with who are desperately unhappy, and married just beauses it is what is supposed to be done...

 

[B_am12388]

I still think this is so ridiculous. How are all gays fighting for equality when discrimination is in the gay community itself ? It's masculine gays vs. the feminine gays. I just don't get it. I think it's funny that the gay community's symbol is a rainbow when gays themselves are so black and white. It's either your masculine acting, or feminine acting. Who says it's acting ?! Why can't we all just get along ? Why does there have to be this silly dispute in the gay community about camps vs. straight "acting" ? Who cares ?!?! Arn't there more important things to be upset about ?!? I don't discriminate against anyone in the gay community. I like the masculines and the feminines and the ones that have an equal balance of both mannerisms all the same. Also, I hate it when the masculine gays say it's the feminine gays fault that the gays are bashed, and beaten up. That's an awful a very hurtful thing to say. If anything, the fem gays are the backbone of the gay community, because they have to put up with not only the straights hating on them, but they're own community hating on them too. Why discriminate ? We're a community fighting for equal rights. We all want the same things; equal rights and cock. So, why is there discrimination in the gay community when the gays themselves are fighting against discrimination ? Why can't we all just get along ? I think it's sad, and it really breaks my heart there's a dispute about this when there's way worse things happening. It's just childish. Oh, and for all that say it's other peoples "opinions". So, it's their "opinion" to hate one side of their community ? It's their "opinion" to discriminate against them ? It's their "opinion" to not like fem gays, but be fighting against discrimination ? Sounds ridiculous to me.

 

[oacliffbuddy]

I don't want a "girly man".

Ah yes.....the trophy husband...... someone that makes you feel good to be seen with, that makes you feel good about yourself, that every one else is envious of which of course makes it all about YOU.

There are stereo-typical gay mannerisms that seem to be common in certain circles. But I think sometimes that the heavier affectations are just part of urban gay culture. I've seen gay guys turn it off and on. I think this is common to every minority group, like having certain language, mannerisms and humor.

I agree. I'm perfectly comfortable being me. I don't act gay or straight (whatever either of those mean) and generally no one questions my sexuality when they meet me. I like being around other gay men as it affords me an opportunity to relax and let my playful side emerge. I can play gay but it usually only lasts for about a minute or so and then it's back to being me. Playing camp is hard work unless it comes natural to you.

When looking to date, I migrate towards people like myself but yet with qualities I don't offer. My physical stature (or thereabouts), quiet (like me), unassuming (like me), not a driving need to be the center of attention (like me) but not a wallflower (unlike me:wink, and quietly playful (like me).