Can a Sociopath Be Cured?

B_Bonky

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I think of it as a lack of socialization. Socialization being society's ability to control a person's behavior throughout his life through the use of behavioral training (rewards and punishments) administered in early childhood.

The question is, is it because these "sociopaths/psychopaths" are *unable* to be socialized? Or because they simply were not socialized? Can people be socialized after a certain age, or is it like learning a language.. once you're out of childhood it's damn difficult to learn new stuff?
 

ripvanwinkle

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I think that's a little simplistic. :rolleyes:

I don't think "seems to be looking right through you = psychopath" is in the DSM.
agreed it was oversimplifying. regardless, i've only met one psychopath that i know of and it was immediately obvious. now then, all of them identifiable so easily, certainly not.

the psychologist who told me that also believes psychiatrists often overlook a lot.

i believe that speed limits are erroneous in many places. so, by some definitions, that makes me a sociopath:biggrin1:
 

Irish

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I think of it as a lack of socialization. Socialization being society's ability to control a person's behavior throughout his life through the use of behavioral training (rewards and punishments) administered in early childhood.

The question is, is it because these "sociopaths/psychopaths" are *unable* to be socialized? Or because they simply were not socialized? Can people be socialized after a certain age, or is it like learning a language.. once you're out of childhood it's damn difficult to learn new stuff?
For the most part, especially those who are born that way, yes. It's not about non-conformity, it's not a choice. The brain of a psychopathic person works totally differently from that of a "normal" person. They don't process information the same way, they don't have an emotional response to most stimulus, the mirror cells almost never activate (you can trick them with someone that looks like the subject or you can record them hurting themselves and then play it back, but... that hardly counts).

You're correct about the rewards/punishment part, though. There are rational and self-serving reasons to avoid punishment, but it's hardly due to a fear of punishment, and punishment won't actually alter their actions.
 

B_quietguy

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No, NJ- A sociopath is far worse than ASPD.
For example- true sociopaths do not exhibit impulsively. Quite the opposite, they plan very effectively and often quite elaborately.

And sociopathy is a term pretty much reserved for those who act out violently with little regard for others.

I'd make both of these distinctions here.

Impulsiveness might be due to attention deficit disorder and not due to ASPD. Does impulsiveness really belong on the ASPD checklist?

As for psychopath -vs- sociopath, I'd say they both feel no more remorse about harming others, but sociopaths tend to be more violent and plan to harm others while psychopaths don't plan. Either way, I'd avoid them as much as I can.
 

B_quietguy

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So my question is this: Can a sociopath be cured via therapy and medication? :confused:

Nope. Neither sociopathy nor psychopathy is curable, IMHO. I've heard therapists say basically the same thing - they can't "cure" a psychopath and make the psychopath feel compassion or empathy, or even feel remorse when they harm others. The best they can do is encourage the psychopath to not harm others.

I think a more fundamental question is: "Do they want to be cured?" From the psychopath's point of view, they act to their own benefit without having to consider other people's needs. If they see the world in terms of winners-vs-losers, and having to help other people win means they have to lose, then why would they care to help others? I'd much rather see the world in terms of "we are all in this together" and "let's find some way we can all win".
 

Irish

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As for psychopath -vs- sociopath, I'd say they both feel no more remorse about harming others, but sociopaths tend to be more violent and plan to harm others while psychopaths don't plan. Either way, I'd avoid them as much as I can.
I can't say which one is more violent (I would think it varies), but sociopaths are more impulsive/plan less. Psychopaths are the ones that are usually more successful (see: shady businessman and accomplished serial killer) while sociopaths are more likely to be in a gang and/or go on spree crimes.
 

Irish

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Having dealt with a bunch of each, I say no. These people just are missing something in their brains. They're not fully human, really.
We aren't "missing" anything in our brains, they just work differently, and I'm pretty sure our DNA is what makes us human. Otherwise a lot of people with major head trauma would similarly lose their "human cards."
 

B_Bonky

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I think a lot of people are making up their own definitions of sociopath/psychopath/ASPD...

why don't we stick to the DSM def?
 

Draconis71

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Cured? Depends... Is it a mild infection? Treatable melanoma they're suffering from?


Or.. do you mean.. oh, god, noooo! You CAN'T be implying that it is a mental condition...

Lack of concience can't be cured, I don't think. (But, goddamnit, it's fun to try with electro shock, chemicals, and other physical stimulii (such as torture)... As well as removal of human rights from them)
 

Dave NoCal

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Regarding "cure," for people to seek treatment the symptom (s) need to be ego dystonic, that is incongruent with one's sense of self in a manner that is uncomfortable. These are people who inflict discomfort and tend not to experience relationship pain as intensely. They do not view their symptoms as a problem. External consequences of the symptoms tend to be viewed as confirmatory of their sense of it being a cold. cruel world.
With lower-level personality disorders, externalization is the global defense. They don't want to change. They want the world to relate to them in keeping with their wishes. When that doesn't happen, there's something wrong with the world. When they seek non-mandated treatment, it's in the hope that it will alter their external circumstances, not themselves.
It's my opinion that Borderline Personality and Schizoid Personality can sometimes be treated, albeit with great challenges. It's my opinion that Paranoid Personality and Antisocial Personality are essentially untreatable but, perhaps, modifiable to some extent.
Dave
 

nudeyorker

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Wow I'm really digging back to Criminal Psychology class, but if my memory is not faulty, the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath is that a sociopath knows that he his doing something wrong but has no remorse about it. A psychopath does not feel that what he is doing is wrong. In either case in answer to the OP... IMOHO I don't think that anyone can be cured of anything unless they accept the fact that they have a problem. Most of them don't until they become incarcerated and are forced to rehabilitate; thus are they cured or working the system for their own benefit?
 

shybutwhy

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from my experience with family members and friends i will say this: the sociopath will do all these terrible things and feel something. what he feels is he is right. he/she is the victim and therefore justified in doing these terrible things. they can never really step outside of the situation and check themselves. the psychopath can do all these things just as terribly, but he knows theyre wrong. he wants to stop doing them but can't. his mind is not entirely his, there is someone else present and continuing the behaviour their "true self" knows is really wrong.

the majority of the world live in the middle of the spectrum. on one hand you have sociopaths, on the other you have a hypersensitive. in the middle is what society defines as "normal". however, psychopath doesnt fall within the spectrum, IMO.
 

Nemo_Steampunk

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I think a lot of people are making up their own definitions of sociopath/psychopath/ASPD...

why don't we stick to the DSM def?

Well, if we did that, we'd have to stop using 'sociopath' and 'psychpath,' since the DSM-IVtr doesn't actually use or recognize those as diagnoses. Nor does the ICD. Or the American Psychological Association. Antisocial Personality Disorder (APD... ASD is Autism Spectrum Disorder) can closely resemeble the chronic, immoral/criminal behaviour that are popularly recognized as being 'psycho/sociopathic,' but then again, so is Dissocial Personality Disorder, Histrionic PD, and others that got listed. These are all distinct disorders, with different criteria and symptoms, so I'm not really convinced of the "sociopathy/psychopathy = APD" line that some people draw. For example, we'd all call Hannibal Lector a psychopath, but in the DSM-IV, I'd argue for a Dissocial PD diagnosis rather than APD.

The DSM understands 'impulsivity' and the otehr criteria as things that are actually causing distress to the client. So, if someone impulsively decides to head to St. Lucia for the week, and there's no negative consequence (has enough money to support himself there and back, jobs aren't lost, people don't put out a missing persons report, that sort of thing), then it can't really be used as a criteria. If, however, you fly to st. lucia with only $10 in your pocket, you lose your job as a result of the impulse, that sort of thing... Then yeah, that's a criteria that needs to be discussed.

As far as whether people with APD/DPD can be treated, it's goign to depend on your therapist and where he/she are coming from. Personally, I'd argue that cognitive behavioural therapy is a good way of allowign the APD/DPD patient to understand and be self-aware of destructive thought patterns that lead to outcomes that are socially unacceptable, or to reroute the antisocial/dissocial thoughts into an area that is more socially acceptable. In essence, this is what Dexter's "Code" does; it reroutes the thinking pattern into behaviour that is more socially acceptable.
 

Enid

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Nemo_Steampunk

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I have known one person with severe mental health issues (schizophrenia) who has undergone CBT (cognitive behavioral, not cock & ball torture) with some measure of success (albeit small).

not sure I'd do CBT with severe schizophrenia; I'm not convinced psychotic episodes are really helped by CBT if the person isnt' aware they're psychotic... Which would make them... Not psychotic.

I thought APD was Avoidant Personality Disorder?

Avoidant PD is usually abbreviated AvPD.
 

Adam70

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I have not read all the mail on this list as it reminds me too much of work. But, it seems there are a lot of psychologist/psychiatrists on here. Maybe we should start a group .... something like PsychoLargeCock?