I'm not even sure what I want to say to this, but I want to say something, so I'll give it go.
I think with most of the people into this stuff, it is fantasy and kink that occurs between consenting adults, and that it would never be taken any further. It would be naive to think that it could NEVER get out of hand and that it is NEVER something done by people who would like to do it in reality, but I think those people are vanishingly rare.
I think most of the time, and for most people engaging in this kind of play, there's nothing more scary about it than there is about any other kind of BDSM (or any kink really). I don't think there is a hidden monster. Just someone who gets off on rough sex and a certain kind of power. And I'm bloody glad there are people who do, or how would I get my fantasies fulfilled :tongue: ?
Oh, I have my own fantasies! I'm right there with you there.
Good gracious, I didn't know I'd have to defend BDSM and how open minded I am and how I'm not condemning people into it. This thread is about people taking it too far, though, and I'm convinced that there are people like that who end up in the community. How could they not? There have also been a few high profile cases that show that it's true.
I'm not talking about most of the people into it. There are lots of people on FetLife who abide by SSC and RISK and who abide by the rules of limits and consent and who just like their sex on the edgier side and who don't have any dangerous issues with violence or impulse control problems or with predatory behavior. I have no problem with those people. I'm one of those people.
I'm not talking about the regular people who are into BDSM or "play rape" so what I wrote before doesn't apply to me or you and everyone into it. I'm talking about the actual scary ones. And there are some guys who are just scary. The ones whose writing gives me the creepy chills, like I'm reading The Silence of the Lambs, the ones who talk about "no limit" fantasy rapes and who look for the "victims" who say that they want a "no limits" kind of rape. The ones who write things that send off warning bells in your brain.
There are also the ones where I can't tell if they're just foolish and naive and dangerous or predatory and dangerous. The people who say it doesn't feel like it's edgy enough if there are rules to abide by. Those people scare me. They're trying to push the line from non-consensual behavior into technical consent, without an awareness of the literal and actual difference. I don't think that the oxymoron "consensual non-consent" should apply to any rape scenario involving a stranger unless hard limits have been discussed and a lot of care has been put into the actual safety of the participants.
The women who say that they want to play "victim" and have "no limits" and who say that they want a total stranger to do it, because they want it to feel real, but who have never played these games before also scare me. I think, "Wow, you really might become a victim."
I guess that's also what scares me about it. Some of the men have really scary rape fantasies, like they're actual rapists who are pretending to be rapists, and some of the "victims" seem like they're too easy to actually victimize.
I know you would!
I like it rough. And
CONSENSUAL. It's almost a battle of passion. I'm holding her and pinning her so she can't "get away". Pulling her hair, to bend her neck back, so I can bite the sides of her neck and run my teeth, teasingly over her most vulnerable spots, like arteries.
I have no desire to hurt her but a "little pain" can be amazing. If she says "Ow! Stop!" I stop, right now. That's not pain in a good way. I dated a girl, for a LOOOOONG time who, in the throes of passion, would bite me, unconsciously. The first time, she saw my chest, the next morning and thought I had injured myself, badly, at work. She seriously had no idea it was from her. The marks were insane! She covered her mouth and stepped away from me and said "No! No! That can't be from me!" I showed her her own teeth marks, in my skin (which was kinda cool, in a forensic, sort of way). Terrible, black and blue and purple bruises all over my chest and the front of my shoulders. If you've ever torn a muscle, that's what they looked like. She was pressing her mouth against me, like she was using my chest to muffle her screams, but then she'd suck my skin into her mouth and bite down, as she screamed and came. I used to worry the police would come
Many women have rape fantasies. Not fantasies of *actually* being raped, but of being "forced" to do things with strange men, over and over or being used. It's one of the most common fantasies, reported, to Masters&Johnson. Multiple, forced partners and rape. Not lit candles and long walks on the beach. Rape.
Real rape is
violence, not sex.
I think the internet allows people with ANY fantasy, no matter how bizarre, to get together and make it bloom. Not all blooms are good. I can totally see someone who has been fighting their demon for 30 years, getting involved with one of those groups and feeling accepted. That acceptance of them as "normal" might allow them to succumb to their demons. It seems *very* dangerous, to my point of view, but where do you draw the line, in a free society?
You don't have to explain it to me. I've defended rape fantasies myself in previous threads, and I have my own ravishment fantasies (a term I personally prefer, and now I believe is much more accurate for my fantasies given how extreme some people's actual "rape" fantasies go).
However, having interacted with the rape fantasists, you cannot convince me that some of them aren't potentially dangerous and possibly potentially predators. That's way too Pollyanna for me after having read what they write...
It just seems like such an environment is too perfect for someone who does have predatory instincts, doesn't it?
What about that guy who actually kidnapped a woman and held her as his sex slave for 7 years? Practically everything that he did was stuff people do in consensual BDSM all the time, except he didn't care about consent. He decided that he wanted to keep an actual non-consensual sex slave. There have got to be more of those guys in the BDSM community than just the two mentioned in this thread. I think it would be too easy for a future predator to enter that environment and end up going out of control.
I was reading a blog by someone in the BDSM scene that was talking about several incidents that he knew of where Doms went too far and definitely crossed the line into rape, specifically anal rape with non-consenting partners during a scene. These aren't rape fantasists specifically, just tops who took topping and the power trip way too far. He was writing his post to address what he said goes unspoken because the community tries so hard to be accepting that no one wants to admit that there are any predators in it, and because people in BDSM have such a hard time with acceptance that acknowledging things like that would undermine efforts for them to not be seen as so deviant, so he felt like people in BDSM try their hardest to downplay any of the negatives and anything bad that happens but he felt that he had to say something about it because bad things do happen more frequently than he was comfortable with.
And if that stuff happens in general, you can't tell me it doesn't happen with the rape kinksters, that one of them goes off the reservation and actually commits a rape that isn't in a BDSM context?
Yep, this is me. And if the guy who is doing it has a hidden monster, what does that say about me?
I think you probably have a good enough head on your shoulders that you wouldn't end up in a situation where you become the victim of a real life monster.
The colonel is not a fetishist, he's a homicidal maniac. There is a chasm of difference between the two.
And as much as I agree with consent (my principle criterion, FWIW), there are people who consent to be mutilated or even worse. If both parties can't get up and go to breakfast after the play (at least in theory) rather than the ER, it's a form of sociopathology or a suicidal impulse. These are not fetishes or sexual compulsions, they are signs of mental illness.
I was shocked at how many people in the scene who want to play the really dangerous games who want to totally forgo discussions of limits or safety and things like that, or who even say that there's not enough fear if there's that much trust. I think most people into BDSM are just into more adventurous sex or different kinds of experiences, but it seems like the scene would also attract some people who are very unbalanced.
