Can Muslims Be Good Americans

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Freddie53, May 17, 2007.

  1. Freddie53

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    E-mail addresses float around pretty easy these days, and so this is one I received just today. Unbelievable? Not sure that word is strong enough? Accurate? No, not in the least. Scarry? If enough unsuspecting people read this very scarry!


    READ THIS CAREFULLY

    Subject: FW: Is this why American Muslims are so quiet?

    Is this why American Muslims are so quiet?
    This is very interesting and we all need to read it from start to Finish.........and send it on to anyone who will read it

    Maybe this is why our American Muslims are so quiet and not speaking out about any atrocities.....

    Can a good Muslim be a good American?


    This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Saudi Arabia for
    20 years.

    The following is his reply:

    Theologically - no. . . . Because his allegiance is to Allah,
    The moon God of Arabia.

    Religiously - no. . . . Because no other religion is accepted by
    His Allah except Islam (Q uran, 2:256) (Koran)

    Scripturally - no. . . Because his allegiance is to the five
    Pillars of Islam and the Quran.

    Geographically - no . . . Because his allegiance is to Mecca, to
    which he turns in prayer five times a day.

    Socially - no. . . Because his allegiance to Islam forbids him
    To make friends with Christians or Jews.

    Politically - no. . . Because he must submit to the mullahs
    (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Israel and destruction of
    America, the great Satan.

    Domestically - no. . . . Because he is instructed to marry four
    Women and beat and scourge his wife when she disobeys him (Quran 4:34 ).
    Intellectually - no. . . . Because he cannot accept the American
    Constitution since it is based on Biblical principles and he believes
    the Bible to be corrupt.

    Philosophically - no . . . Because Islam, Muhammad, and the Quran
    does not allow freedom of religion and expression.
    Democracy and Islam cannot co-exist. Every Muslim government is either dictatorial or autocratic.

    Spiritually - no. . . . Because when we declare "one nation under
    God," the Christian's God is loving and kind, while Allah is NEVER
    referred to as heavenly father, nor is he ever called love in The
    Quran's 99 excellent names.


    - - - Therefore after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we
    Should be very suspicious of ALL MUSLIMS in this country.

    - - - They obviously cannot be both "good" Muslims and good Americans.

    * * * Call it what you wish - it's still the truth.

    * * * You had better believe it.

    + + + The more who understand this, the better it will be for our
    country and our future.

    The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.

    .. . And Barack Hussein Obama, a Muslim, wants to be our
    President? You have GOT to be kidding! Wake up America
    !

     
  2. snoozan

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    I'm just going to roll my eyes at this post instead of entertain the bullshit that you just posted. A bit of advice-- get your knowledge about Islam from a reputable source and not some bullshit email forward.

    And take a good hard look at Christianity and how it's practiced today and has been over the years and tell me that everything you cited isn't or hasn't been a part of Christianity.

    The ignorance you display disgusts me.
     
  3. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    Who are you dumping on, Freddie?

    F53 is a reliably squishy lefty and unlikely to suggest that even the most rabid Koran-thumper would hurt a fly. I think he's just reprinting an alarmist e-mail, without endorsing it.

    PS. Yes, that's what he said at the top, in the non-indented portion.

    PPS. It would have been clearer if the quoted message was enclosed in a quote box, rather than simply indented.
     
  4. HUNGHUGE11X7

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    When I saw this title my soul cringed.

    This is the very reason we (AMERICA) are so despised today

    I implore ANYONE to do their research before airing such ignorance which leads to intolerance which leads to hate which leads to WAR.

    The Muslim faith is no different than the Christian faith.
    Extreme Christians are just as dangerous to life and liberty as extreme Muslims.
    Anytime one religion becomes so devoted to the point of fanatacism nothing good will come from said religion.

    I am reading a brilliant book called GOD IS NOT GREAT which speaks of the evils of Religion taken to the point of fanaticism throughout history.

    We must STOP blaming a whole entire Religion for the fanatical actions of a select few.


    :banana:
    HORSE
     
  5. snoozan

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    Whoops!! My apologies. I obviously skipped that part and not knowing Freddie didn't help. Anyway, my sentiments are still the same about that email. Ugh.
     
  6. Freddie53

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    Your inability to read the first opening paragraph disgusts me as well. You have charged me with something I am not guilty of. My opening statement says how I feel about this e-mail. But people we have to be aware of what is being sent around.

    This e-mail is disgusting. It is totally inaccurate on every point it makes. It is in a word horse shit. I thought I was well enough known and my opening paragraph was enough to let you know how I feel about such slander as this e-mail is.

    And and the statements are leading up to the main point which is to slander Obama. That is how the fundies work. I am not a fundie and despise them.
     
  7. SteveHd

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    I'm generally anti-moslem but even someone of my persuasion will see it as extremist and bigoted and therefore dismiss it. I don't think it's worth getting riled up about it.
     
  8. D_Gunther Snotpole

    D_Gunther Snotpole Account Disabled

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    Barack Obama happens to be a member of the United Church of Christ.
    Hardly a Muslim.
    (I know you're not endorsing this false information, Freddie ... just passing it on.)
     
  9. Freddie53

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    Opps! My apoligies to Snoozan. I posted before I read your post.

    And BD you are correct. I should have done something to make it clear that this was a quote that I deplored.

    I only posted it to warn everyone what the fundies are starting. Using e-mail is cheap way to slander a politician.

    Don't think this will be the last e-mail that they will float around. I got on a fundies e-mail list somehow. Bought something at the flower store and bingo on the list. I leave it on so I know what kind of shit is circulating.

    As a mod, I could have deleted my post. I have that power. I wouldn't use it as any other member would have just had to eat crow like I just did.
     
  10. Freddie53

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    I have to disagree with you. I wish you were right though. I live in a small town where everybody knows everybody. And yes the person who sent it to me probably never reads the paper and the whole point of the e-mail is to spread the false information that Obama is a Muslim which of course will cause stomach distress for every fundie in the United States.

    Look for the reason of the e-mail. Obama is a Muslim. Obama is a Muslim. Repeat it over and over until all fundies in America believe it to be so.

    Pure bull shit!
     
  11. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    Who's this "we"?
    Get real. Nobody researches anything, particularly here. People parade their prejudices, and that's about it.
    You'll have a real uphill swim to make these assertions convincing. Fortunately they're not really important for the current topic, nor really relevant. Roughly equivalent arguments re Catholocism were offered before JFK's election, and they turned out to be false alarms. (And Catholocism didn't have a virulently homicidal strain in the early 1960s, which spoils the analogy a bit.)

    Besides, this is MZ's department.
    Fanatacism isn't necessarily bad. Some Europeans think that American loyalty to a written constitution approaches fanaticism, particularly when conflicts with the EU wish-list are involved, and I suppose they may be right.
     
  12. naughty

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    Workin' up a good pot of mad!
    Freddie,

    I am a fundie but that is not how I work. Unfortunately though there are some truths to parts of this statement. Now we have not experienced the type of extremist Islamic reactions in this country that have been shown in other countries but in truth the Koran does state many of these things. However, in this country we tend to see more moderate forms of Islam being practiced. I do not agree with the fear tactics this person is using. I think that freedom of religion is one of the blessings of this country and that everyone should be allowed to practice their faith without the fear of retribution, be they Islamic, Jewish, Buddist, Hindu, Ba'hai, or Christian (I may have left other religions out accidentally)
    OH and last time I checked as Freddie stated Barak Obama is not islamic.
     
  13. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    A flower store? Oy vey, is nothing sacred?
     
  14. Lordpendragon

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    Can a Fundamentalist Christian be a good American?

    This question was forwarded to a friend who worked in Los Angeles for
    20 years.

    The following is his reply:

    Theologically - no.
    . . . Because his allegiance is to God,
    The one true God, a jealous God.

    Religiously - no.
    . . . Because no other religion is accepted by
    his one true God, a jealous God


    Scripturally - no.
    . . Because his allegiance is to every word in a 2500 year old book and he ignores the message of Jesus.

    Geographically - no
    . . . Because his allegiance is to Jerusalem, a new Jerusalem, to which he turns in prayer spiritually.

    Socially - no.
    . . Because his allegiance to God forbids him
    To make friends with Homos, Jews and Arabs.

    Politically - no.
    . . Because he must submit to the muttonheads like Falwell
    (spiritual leaders), who teach annihilation of Homos and the destruction of
    Pinky Winky, the great Satan.

    Domestically - no.
    . . . Because he is instructed that sex is evil, the cause of man's fall from grace and only for the repulsive purpose of reproduction.

    Philosophically - no .
    . . He does not have to think, because the Bible tells him everything he needs to know.

    Spiritually - no
    . . . . Because when he declares "one nation under
    God," the Fundamental Christian's God is the God of Leviticus and all sinners will be hated and punished with eternal damnation.


    - - - Therefore after much study and deliberation.... Perhaps we
    Should be very suspicious of ALL FUNDAMENTAL CHRISTIANS in this country.

    - - - They obviously cannot be both "good" Fundies and good Americans.

    * * * Call it what you wish - it's still the truth.

    * * * You had better believe it.

    + + + The more who understand this, the better it will be for our
    country and our future.

    The religious war is bigger than we know or understand.




    Fixed that for you Freddie :smile:


     
  15. naughty

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    Workin' up a good pot of mad!

    In my case that was total bollocks.
     
  16. stretcher74

    stretcher74 New Member

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    Nothing that hasn't been said about Jews and Catholics.

    There is however a small kernel of truth in all these statments as it concerns all people who live in Western Culture but second and third generation do not feel themselves "of" it. Third generation Algerian-French booing the national anthem at soccer games come to mind.

    People would not have voted for J.F.K had they really belived his theology really meant that S.A.C. would be under direct command of the man with the Pointy-hat in Rome (although in restrospect the pope might have been better than a womanizer in a fog of hormone injections and tranqulizers).

    As for Obama being a muslim, I've only read the first 150 pages of his book. No mention of Jihad yet. If he is the muslim-candidate he's pretty deep cover/manchurian. He's actually the only candidate I've pretty much heard say he'd bomb Iran to keep the mullahs from getting nukes.

    The book is quite interesting/tender in a way. While fatherhood is important, I find it interesting that some of the most exceptional, articulate and accomplished politicians had distant, abusive, or outright absent fathers.
     
  17. dolfette

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    as much as the first statement was to many muslims.

    irony.
     
  18. SteveHd

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    I know that was the purpose. I think you're much too overworked about nothing much.
     
  19. madame_zora

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    Naughty, I wouldn't call you a "fundie", not the way I define the term. Being a fundie isn't really so much about what conclusion you draw, but how you arrive at it. I see you as someone who may think differently than me on some things, but you put a lot of thought into your opinions, they are arrived at independantly. I respect that. What I don't respect are the nodding heads who just do as they're told, without doing their own study.
    I resent the ones who value feelings over reality- I don't see you doing that.

    As to the letter, while it would seem laughably lame to anyone with much common sense, the actual damage it could do is immense. SO MANY PEOPLE around you every day could be very much persuaded that this is absolute factual reality, and react accordingly.

    Most of the complaints in that list could also be said of Christians- hold the Bible above the Constitution, pledge allegiance to God above other gods, won't allow for other god's existence, should only associate with same faith, women obey their husbands, etc. Most Christians don't take all that stuff very seriously anymore, as most Muslims have become more "westernised" if they're here, or even in bigger cities in Iraq. You have to remember, they've had a secular society under Saddam for two decades- they haven't been under Sharia law for a long time. They've become merchants, businessmen, students, they really didn't have it as bad as a lot of middle eastern countries. We didn't attack a primitive culture.

    That letter reduces all Muslims to fundamentalists, and it isn't true in the least. If you don't want to be identified as a Christian by Fred Phelps, then don't do that to the Muslims. They aren't any more "in" on what these nutjobs did to us than normal Christians are "in" on the abortion clinic bombings.
     
  20. Mr. Snakey

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    I will tell you of my many Muslim friends who are great people. When push comes to shove this is how they feel. To paint all Muslims this way is wrong and foolish. To ignore this is dangerous.
     
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