Can people change?

[B_cigarbabe]

Hurray for "Mama Big O"!
Now thats what I'm talking about!
cigarbabe:saevil:

 

[Not_Punny]

I think people can change, but I believe that it almost always takes epiphany. And epiphany is most frequently sparked by external events.

TELLING someone to change is not enough to spark epiphany. Because of this, ultimatums don't work.

But ultimatums followed through can work.

So can hitting rock bottom.

People cannot be saved from themselves. But people around them can draw lines -- and they can and should follow through.

I'm big on forgiveness. But I need to see epiphany and change.

 

[Ethyl]

Yes, people can change but i've noticed real change usually stems from being forced to make choices due to circumstances over which people have little or no control. I believe people can choose to change willingly but that's a decision based on desires rather than something unintentionally life-altering.
The difference between choosing a life partner as opposed to experiencing the sickness or death of someone you love, for example.

 

[Axcess]

Yes, people can change but i've noticed real change usually stems from being forced to make choices due to circumstances over which people have little or no control. I believe people can choose to change willingly but that's a decision based on desires rather than something unintentionally life-altering.
The difference between choosing a life partner as opposed to experiencing the sickness or death of someone you love, for example.

That's exactly what I mean by my previous post , You explained it better.

 

[Kimahri]

I don't think people change fundamentally. I think they change how they handle and address things, but I think their core personality stays the same.

 

[Osiris]

I think people can change, but I believe that it almost always takes epiphany. And epiphany is most frequently sparked by external events.

TELLING someone to change is not enough to spark epiphany. Because of this, ultimatums don't work.

But ultimatums followed through can work.

So can hitting rock bottom.

People cannot be saved from themselves. But people around them can draw lines -- and they can and should follow through.

I'm big on forgiveness. But I need to see epiphany and change.

Yes, people can change but i've noticed real change usually stems from being forced to make choices due to circumstances over which people have little or no control. I believe people can choose to change willingly but that's a decision based on desires rather than something unintentionally life-altering.
The difference between choosing a life partner as opposed to experiencing the sickness or death of someone you love, for example.

Well put both of you. I wish I could have put it that eloquently.

Hurray for "Mama Big O"!
Now thats what I'm talking about!
cigarbabe:saevil:

DAMN! I swore I wouldn't break into this tirade, but you touched on mental health so I am going to derail a minute and vent.

The US mental health system is a joke. It isn't designed to make people better or get them to a point of fully functional, it is a living death based on how much they determine you need to die. Rather than truly try to find true health professionals to help talk through problems, they choose to sedate because the big drug companies make money and the insurance companies don't have to pay as much.

Go to public health and tell them you are having thoughts of murder, they'll watch you for 24 hours and if you don't kill anybody, they'll cut you loose. Go in and say you are having issues coping, they sedate you to a living death point.

It's no wonder you tell someone to get help and you mention public mental health resources and people run in fear. Most of us are forunate that we have insurance funded by our great corporate jobs or the money to afford it that we can go to a doctor and seek this help. If you are Joe Blow, living paycheck to paycheck and scraping and saving to get by, you have absolutely nothing in the mental health care arena.

Until we fix this, we are doing no justice or service to those in our community who really need it and can't afford it.

I'm off my soapbox now. :soapbox:

 

[Not_Punny]

Yikes, well don't get me started.

Sunday, I took my daughter to the 7-day a week health clinic near our home. There, I was informed that they didn't take our health coverage anymore, so the visit cost me four times as much money. (To their credit, the doctors threw in some free samples of the stomach medicine to help us save money.)

What made me mad -- really mad -- was that we have better health care than many people in LA county, and if this is happening to us, then how much worse it must be for people with lesser insurance?

Just a month ago a local teen died because her health insurance company TWICE denied her a liver transplant. Then, the night they finally granted it, well, it was too late. She died the same night. No joke.

A teenage girl for goodness sake!!

Meantime, while coverage is being denied left, right and center, we have HUGE waste built into our health care system. The clunky, awkward billing systems, the collections, the CRAP. Doctor's offices have to have one or two people full time just to deal with the insurance companies.

It's disgusting.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

But back to the subject of people with mental health issues.

It's better today than it used to be -- until about sixty or seventy years ago, unstable people used to be locked up.

At least the "living death" meds give some people a semblance of a life that they would never have seen inside an institution.

But we still have a looooooong way to go.

I just think that the FINANCE method that is currently supporting our health system is making things worse, not better.

 

[earllogjam]

People change out of desperation or inspiration but 9 times out of 10 it is desperation. Kinda like reactionary management.

I think who you are at the very core remains intact and you just grow, learn and evolve from there - like a planted nut of sorts.

 

[B_Nick8]

It's been my experience that people don't really 'change' as much as 'modify'.

 

[Love-it]

Only if the person wants to change, and gets some positive reinforcement. Jail-house conversions don't count for much.

 

[Principessa]

Can people change? I think they can, but you have to give them the chance to change for the better.

Just a thought.

What say you?

I don't know. Part of me says yes, because I have changed over the years. But then again it's not like I was a thief. :tongue: I didn't have to change the essence of my being.

some people change for the better and for the worse, unfortunately.

Agreed

Do you think you can force change on someone Osiris or do you think it has to always be a personal decision or a natural development?

Effective change cannot be forced.

The hard thing is sitting back and waiting for the person to change without being able to help. Yes it is usually for the best that you sit back and let them sort it out, but you just want them to be their best right now. Like a parent with a child.

:smile: I know that 'waiting for the train wreck to happen feeling' quite well. That occurs because you can't force someone to change. You can only wait for them to hit rock bottom (the train wreck) and be there to help them pick up the pieces and start over again.

 

[Hoss]

I think they can, but you have to give them the chance to change for the better.

Just a thought.

What say you?

I believe they can but it is more than just the chance the person needs to want to change as well.

 

[185248]

Can people change to accept that people change? Whats easier, to change for the good, or for the bad? Changing for the good is much harder for the person, and others to accept that they have. There is always a question of whether they will slip backwards.

Had your pick and shovel out again Hoss?

 

[aninnymouse]

Sure, everyone changes. No one is static. Even when we're steadfastly determined not to change, we change.

But, like stated above, change comes from within, and no one can force change on anyone. People can be either good or bad influences, but they aren't the be all, end all. If a person is going to end bad habits, it's going to be because they choose to end bad habits, and they have their own reason and motivation.

Ditto for picking up bad habits.

 

[petite]

Yes, but it's difficult and rare.

It's easier to do if you move, I think, or have some sort of major life change like breakup from a long term relationship. I find change comes much more easily in those circumstances.

 

[rbkwp]

Yes, i think so
but a real conscious effort has to be made. and i dont think people are overly motivated in this.

 

[lovinglife]

Yes, people can change. I am one of those people. I have always been a nice guy, but I havent really worked hard for anything ever. However, there is now somebody that I want to work hard for. She has changed me a lot, even though we arent together (yet). So many things about me and my life are different now that its kind of staggering, things that are better for me. Health, lifestyle, motivations... all improved.

 

[SyddyKitty]

Yes but changing for the better takes work. Changing for the worst just happens when you're not working your hardest on changing for the better. Annoying process.

 

[NC_BBC]

People can change but it takes any combination of few things to make them change....
1) The person has to WANT to change
2) Something has to happen to show that person they SHOULD change
3) There has to be a benefit to changing

Just mho...