Can Russia really be blamed for the Flight MH17 tragedy?
- Thread starter heirtothewind
- Start date
- Joined
- Aug 26, 2004
- Posts
- 15,631
- Media
- 51
- Likes
- 4,827
- Points
- 433
- Location
- London (Greater London, England)
- Verification
- View
- Sexuality
- 90% Gay, 10% Straight
- Gender
- Male
The BBC is reporting American reports that Russia has fired missiles from Russia soil at Ukrainian army positions, and that the pro-Russian guerillas in eastern Ukraine are being provided with rocket launchers.
I think this development suggests that even after MH17, Russia is threatening all planes that fly over eastern Ukraine. I think this threat is intended. It gives some level of support to the idea that the MH17 attack was not an accident.
I think this development suggests that even after MH17, Russia is threatening all planes that fly over eastern Ukraine. I think this threat is intended. It gives some level of support to the idea that the MH17 attack was not an accident.
I dont know about british or frensh airlines, but at least all german airlines have stoped flying over the east ukraine, anyway - so, the threat wouldnt be a real threat.
But if you desperatly want to see putin as a loonatic spycho, you sure could say its a proof that putin ordered to shoot mh17
But if you desperatly want to see putin as a loonatic spycho, you sure could say its a proof that putin ordered to shoot mh17
The story of "artillery being shot" from Russia is a political response to the news of the prime minister's resignation and the dissolution of the governing coalition. It's a lie.
The US State Department has been lying through it's teeth the entire time during this crisis.
Does anyone not know that Victoria Nuland is married to the co-founder of the NEOCON "Project For A New American Century"? You've all heard the "Fuck the EU" conversation right? Victoria Nuland is married to Robert Kagan, who along with Bill Krystol formed the intellectual and philosophical base of the NeoCons.
That's fucking right... I said NEOCONS. Do I need to go into detail about what a fucking NeoCon is?
This phone call took place before February 6th. It is a cleverly discussed lead-up to a coup... for everyone's information, the Euromaiden revolution didn't start until Feb. 21st.
Ukraine has a LOOOONG history of Anti-Semitism.
You guys do realize that Ukraine fought on the German side against the Russians right?
Ukrainian National Army
Here they are recently memorializing their Nazi past with a parade honoring the Ukraine SS.
Svoboda are Nazis too
The US State Department has been lying through it's teeth the entire time during this crisis.
Does anyone not know that Victoria Nuland is married to the co-founder of the NEOCON "Project For A New American Century"? You've all heard the "Fuck the EU" conversation right? Victoria Nuland is married to Robert Kagan, who along with Bill Krystol formed the intellectual and philosophical base of the NeoCons.
That's fucking right... I said NEOCONS. Do I need to go into detail about what a fucking NeoCon is?
This phone call took place before February 6th. It is a cleverly discussed lead-up to a coup... for everyone's information, the Euromaiden revolution didn't start until Feb. 21st.
Ukraine has a LOOOONG history of Anti-Semitism.
You guys do realize that Ukraine fought on the German side against the Russians right?
Ukrainian National Army
Here they are recently memorializing their Nazi past with a parade honoring the Ukraine SS.
Svoboda are Nazis too
was quite a good post (even if i dont agree with the lie)... till this →
you know that russia, just as the usa and west europe had a loooong history of anti-semitism? So what?
And do you realize that it wasnt out of anti-semitism, but to become independent from russia?
Last edited:
From whom else?
Do I need to go into the history of the pogroms that took place in Ukraine and Poland?
The Ukrainian collaboration with the Nazis was intense and widespread.
The statement that it wasn't out of anti-semitism but to be independent from Russia was motivation in Galicia but outside of Galicia, the primary motivations were nationalism, racism and anti-semitism... they usually go together in certain populations.
Last edited:
And do you notice that you discredit yourself with sutch posts?
If you want do it... but dont miss the strong limits for immigration of jew into the usa, around 1900 or the progroms that happened doring the past 10 centuries in west europe... or how the jew were treated in russia, between 1900 and 1950.
Again, my point is, the current problems have nothing todo with things out of the past.
I just find being lectured on antisemitism from a German is in poor taste.
The Nazis are alive and well in Ukraine... are you honestly going to tell me that having a present day memorial parade for SS soldiers has nothing to do with anti-semitism?
Did you not read this article I linked to about Svoboda?
in this case, you would never lose a word about slavery or how natives been treated?
Thats bullshit
it diesnt has to be, even if its quite likely that it does...
The memory of ss soldiers in the ukraine can also be seen as nationalism in memory of thefight against russia.
But i agree with the critcs against svoboda. While western european parties wouldnt even talk with parties half as nationalistic, in their own country, they do support sutch a goverment in the ukraine...
svoboda is by far not the whole goverment
Last edited:
My grandfather fought on the Union side to LIBERATE the slaves and I am part Native American, so... you have no point.
But... I should give you the benefit of the doubt. Just understand that you started off understating the Nazi collaboration in Ukraine and that made you seem like a bit of a Nazi apologist. Lecture me all you want I guess. lolz
How does expressing German "Nationalism" work out for Germans?
It's against the fucking law and you know it!!!!!!!
There is more than just Svoboda in Ukraine... Svoboda is just the most visible aspect of Ukrainian Neo-Naziism.
Of course, the ENTIRE US media dismissed reports of Ukrainian Neo-Nazis as the lunatic ravings of Putin and Russian sympathizers. Which was a LIE!
you suggest that, just cause im german, my famaly was involved into nazi crimes... my family could have been part of the resistance or immigrated past ww2 - so what? You generallised
The crimes, done two generations before me., shouldnt limit me from having an objective discussion - no matter what nationality, religion or family i been from
finland vollaborated with the nazis as well, to fight russia and it had nothing to do with antisemitism...
Just cause someone explainse you some historical facts doesnt mean he tries to justify anything.
Dont try to interpretate things into something that doesnt exist
yes its against the law in GERMANY. But we talk about the ukraine...
And all these "nazis" are part of the goverment?
Maybe you have heared of front national in france - also very nationalistic and anti-semitism
What about parts of the KKK in the usa?
All of them arent part of the goverment, but they represent anti-semitism
Maybe we should ask russia to invate these nations as well
You mix different things, that have nothing to do with the topic
Last edited:
Germany isn't very talkative or reflective about it's anti-semtic past... Germans don't even discuss WWII... the entire country is just silent on the issue. I honestly don't think there was or is much introspection going on. I've NEVER been able to get any of my German friends to talk at any length about WWII. The current culture of Germany is to sweep it under the rug and just not talk about it.
Technically you being German doesn't matter, you could be Hitler's grandson and still could be a good and decent person with viable views on anti-semitism. You should probably get extra credit for debating in a 2nd language too... it is a pretty awesome feat.
But we are not talking about Finland.
The Ukrainian Nationalist Neo-Nazis are in the national government, I'm not sure what you are getting at.
The KKK was weaved through the local governments of the South and it was fucking disgusting. Mainly through police, sheriff & fire departments.
They were NEVER allowed to enter state and Federal government save for a few weird exceptions but no National KKK party EVER was elected to National government in the US.
Maybe we should ask russia to invade them as well
There has been no invasion from Russia (yet)... so why bring it up? The "invasion force" in Crimea had been in Crimea for 15 years.
you should get informed about the 68er in germany - it was a clash of generations (the "nazi" generation and their kids).
Our kanzler willy brand got the peace nobel price, cause of his behaviour in context to the nazi crimes
ww2 is part of history and german lessons between 6th an 10th grate
Just currently we have an anti-semitism discussion in context to the palestinian demonstrations in europe/germany.
Germany still pays millions to israel and the safety of israel is a fundamental agenda for germany.
I dont know a single city where you cant see a memorial for the nazi victims
It looks like you know nothing about germany - to say we try to avoide to talk about ww2 is so wrong. Its part of our life
I dont know your german friends, but in germany you cant avoide to get confronted with the ww2 - maybe thats why they dont want to talk with americans about it.
thanks... just a few posts before it sounds different. But doesnt mind
you are right...
I used it to make cleare that, to fight with nazi germany, doesnt automatically mean to support the Genozid
in a post earlier, you pointed out that svoboda is just a small part of the nazi culture in the ukraine (not part of the goverment). I tried to point that in many countries a party or culture of nazis, not part of the goverment, exist.
Good... but i used the kkk as an example for your non goverment nazis in the ukraine
Technical you are wrong... the military bases arent ukraine territory, but russian. Also included the contract for these bases that the soldiers arent allowed to leave them, without asking the ukraine goverment.
As they left, they invated the crimea
Last edited:
The reality is that Germans makes too much of your "resistance"... not very effective and was easily crushed.
What the hell does that have to do with anything? Pay your fucking debts but don't brag about the fact that you are still paying reparations.
The safety of Israel is a full-time modus operandi of the entire Western world... Germany is no different from any Western country.
Well, I know more about Germany than the average American... I'll never know as much as a German citizen. Pretty cheap shot but I had one coming I guess. lolz
I just think that Germans are embarrassed because they know their "resistance" was anemic and inconsequential.
Woah... that is a complete technicality to say that upon leaving their base, they were invading... it's really utter bullshit.
No, you are being lectured on the fact Ukraine never wanted to be part of Russia so why would it have changed now? You have chosen not to talk about that but to talk about antisemitism instead.
So you believe the sins of the fathers should be visited on the sons? (or, as here, the credit?)
Well we dont seem to be talking bout russia.... anything else, really, to avoid discussing Russian culpability.
Klingsor
Worshipped Member
- Joined
- Mar 3, 2011
- Posts
- 10,888
- Media
- 4
- Likes
- 11,638
- Points
- 293
- Location
- Champaign (Illinois, United States)
- Sexuality
- 80% Straight, 20% Gay
- Gender
- Male
RMS Lusitania - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
So, has Hollywood signed a deal yet? Guess their may have not been enough US passengers on board.
If the world as a whole, does not for once or at anytime gather enough guts to stare down a bully, no matter how intimidating. They will do it again, and again. It happens in the schoolyard, it happens all the time.
That is what the UN was invented for? Was it not?
Or was it invented to only pick on those smaller than you?
So, has Hollywood signed a deal yet? Guess their may have not been enough US passengers on board.
If the world as a whole, does not for once or at anytime gather enough guts to stare down a bully, no matter how intimidating. They will do it again, and again. It happens in the schoolyard, it happens all the time.
That is what the UN was invented for? Was it not?
Or was it invented to only pick on those smaller than you?
Last edited by a moderator: