Can We Move On From Trump The Loser?

Drifterwood

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This thread was a bit weak. What I was trying to say is that how much better for all of us and the board if we deprive Mr. Trump of the oxygen that he needs to survive. It was painful to watch him in the White House and whilst understandable that two thirds of the threads were about him, wouldn't it be better all round to consign him to the anonymity of history? Let's not have him like a bogeyman who stays alive because we talk about him.

The link to Mr. Pie in the OP encapsulates why we thought he was a cunt.
 

Klingsor

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This thread was a bit weak. What I was trying to say is that how much better for all of us and the board if we deprive Mr. Trump of the oxygen that he needs to survive. It was painful to watch him in the White House and whilst understandable that two thirds of the threads were about him, wouldn't it be better all round to consign him to the anonymity of history? Let's not have him like a bogeyman who stays alive because we talk about him.

The link to Mr. Pie in the OP encapsulates why we thought he was a cunt.

If you want to be consigned to the "anonymity of history," don't become President of the United States.
 

Industrialsize

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This thread was a bit weak. What I was trying to say is that how much better for all of us and the board if we deprive Mr. Trump of the oxygen that he needs to survive. It was painful to watch him in the White House and whilst understandable that two thirds of the threads were about him, wouldn't it be better all round to consign him to the anonymity of history? Let's not have him like a bogeyman who stays alive because we talk about him.

The link to Mr. Pie in the OP encapsulates why we thought he was a cunt.
You underestimate the amount of PTSD that 80 million Americans are going through.
 

Drifterwood

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You have my best wishes for a speedy recovery. I can't but help think that we wouldn't have been cursed with Brexit without the whole Trump thing going on. The rest of the world is sighing with relief.

No one seems to disagree that one of his places in history will be as the worst POTUS in a hundred years.
 

hassent

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If you want to be consigned to the "anonymity of history," don't become President of the United States.
I hate to be the one who brings you this message: Many of the american presidents are (by us europeans/the rest of the world) consigned to the "anonymity of history,". We have trouble enough remembering our own heads of state.......
 

halcyondays

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Long before he was elected it was obvious the man was and would be incompetent as POTUS. His only competency was using Twitter to blitz his demagoguery. Fawning Fox News along went along for the ride. Rupert pocketed the profits.

Despite my issues with Joe Biden it's a breath of fresh air to see competence & experience return to the White House.

Right wing extremists--Trump supporters--burned the US flag in Oregon on Inauguration Day. We've come full circle.
 

Jason

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Trump was a terrible president. He appears to be a deeply flawed character, a thoroughly nasty individual. By comparison almost anyone would look good.

Biden is not-Trump. However he does not deserve the present idolisation. He is an appalling choice for President. The age issue doesn't somehow go away - there is a very fair chance that he just will not have the physical strength to deal with some crisis. He is at the left end of US politics and as such cannot possibly heal the division in the USA. Had anyone but Trump been running for the Republicans he would not have won. He seems committed to crazy policies (no fossil fuel, men in women's prisons). He's woke. This is all going to go so wrong.

He has baggage of support for Sinn Fein at a time when Sinn Fein was the political wing of terrorists IRA. For a US senator to give this support did bolster Sinn Fein and IRA. It is no stretch to say that there were additional terrorist murders because of Biden's support for Sinn Fein IRA. This must not be forgotten. He has in the past acted as an enemy of the UK.
 

Drifterwood

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FFS. England is an imperialist controller of the so called UK. You can wrap it up with a lovely queen, but it is still a justifiable political position to oppose British imperialism, economic, social, legal or political.

Bernie Saunders is on the left side of US politics, President Biden is about as central as you can get.
 

Klingsor

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I hate to be the one who brings you this message: Many of the american presidents are (by us europeans/the rest of the world) consigned to the "anonymity of history,". We have trouble enough remembering our own heads of state.......

You and I will be consigned to anonymity; presidents and heads of state remain a part of history. That doesn't mean they will forever stay household names, but it does mean their permanent records will always be available as examples of how or how not to lead.
 
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hassent

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You and I will be consigned to anonymity; presidents and heads of state remain a part of history. That doesn't mean they will forever stay household names, but it does mean their permanent records will always be available as examples of how or how not to lead.

Do you mean they will be put in the archives and then be "forgotten"? That they no longer will be "part of the living history"?
 

Klingsor

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Do you mean they will be put in the archives and then be "forgotten"? That they no longer will be "part of the living history"?

They'll always be part of history; that's what *makes* it history.

How long they're remembered by the average person in street will vary, of course. I'd say Trump has a long way to go before he's forgotten.
 

hassent

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They'll always be part of history; that's what *makes* it history.

How long they're remembered by the average person in street will vary, of course. I'd say Trump has a long way to go before he's forgotten.

Sorry, I forgot one sentence... In europe they won't be a part of the history in the way they always will be a part of the history of the USA.
 

Jason

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Reputations are contested through years, often decades and centuries. In the case of Trump it is likely that we will first see the establishment of two divergent views on his reputation, and only after a very long time anything that resembles a consensus.

In the UK we've seen development of views on PMs.

* From the 1970s Callaghan, Wilson and Heath have ever worse reviews. Heath in particular has fallen as rumours circulate about his personal life and what he may or may not have done. In the 1970s people were likely to support their political tribe and support or revile according to whether Labour (C&W) or Conservative (Heath). Now I think there is consensus that all three were terrible.

* Thatcher won elections but also became a bogey woman. There were certainly two views. Then there was the "consensus" that she was a marmite politician. Today we are moving to appreciate that she had values and kept to them, that her economic policies (however ghastly at the time) worked - her reputation has gone up.

* Blair likewise won elections and was never quite as disliked by the right as Thatcher by the left. Today we are ever-more concerned about his war in Iraq (with something close to a consensus that it was illegal). His reputation is falling.

* Brown. A solid figure - reputation probably up.

Subsequently we're into politicians who are too recent.

Much of history's judgment of Trump will I think be on outcomes, with three dominating:
- how well the US economy did (pre-pandemic)
- international policy, particularly the only US president for ages not to go to war.
- Middle East, and whether improvements in Israel-Arab relations really are down to his intervention.

Trump is at a nadir right now. It may well be that his reputation will be revised upwards.