Capitalism: A Love Story

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

The real story is to realize there are now 9-11 countries with standard of livings exceeding that of the US- all of them Socialistic, a combination of government and private capital.

hahaha. And which countries are those?
hilarious

Ha, good call. I openly laughed at that one, too.

The UN Human Development Index is a comparative measure of poverty, literacy, education, life expectance, childbirth, and other factors for countries worldwide.
It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare. The index has been used since 1993 by the UN Development Program in its annual Human Development Report.
The HDI measures the average achievements in a country in three basic dimensions of human development:
1) A long and healthy life measured by life expectancy at birth
2) Knowledge, as measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weight) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrolment ratio (with one-third weight)
3) A decent standard of living, as measured by gross domestic product per capita at purchasing power parity in American dollars.

1 Norway
2 Iceland
3 Australia
4 Luxembourg
5 Canada
6 Sweden
7 Switzerland
8 Ireland
9 Belgium
10 United States

 

[DaveUSADAV]

Thank you senor rubiosa and others. You know, I am a fifty eight year old combat Vietnam Veteran and work for the DOD and if I hear another of these f,,,,in lies by these dumbsh..t Conservative weenies about how cool everything is.
Do they honestly think a Janitor without any health insurance, without any chance his kid can go to college, debt up to his ears living in a sesspool of crime neighborhoods, lives better here than does a Janitor in Canada or Sweden! I am lucky, I got a good professional job, good pay, and health insurance. The private capitalistic Contractor janitors on my base have neither.
Look, every country is socialistic, based on welfare and government protection... everyone of them! Every country protects some elite, some social group. Conservatism is the use of government to ensure the welfare of the rich and powerful. That is what Republicans are only about. Liberalism, which I don't particularly advocate, is arguably the use of government to protect the minority or disenfranchised at the expense of the majority. Communisim is the use of government to protect soley the welfare of the state and the state's dictator. A dictatorship is the use of government to protect the dictator, his family, and his croonies... check out most of Africa. A theocracy, suh as in Iran, is the use of government to ensure the welfare of a religion. Even libertarianism is the use of government to ensure the welfare of the property owners and the owners of production. Yea, they are all based on welfare... and they use the power of the soverienty to enforce it.
The People never have control of their government. The only real democracy occurs when the government has an equal interest in the fate of all its citizens... an equal interest.
But I think the sun will expire when this government cares the same about a crack baby born from a prostitue as it does for George Bush's daughters or Bill Gate's son.

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

The UN Human Development Index is a comparative measure of poverty, literacy, education, life expectance, childbirth, and other factors for countries worldwide.
It is a standard means of measuring well-being, especially child welfare. The index has been used since 1993 by the UN Development Program in its annual Human Development Report.
The HDI measures the average achievements in a country in three basic dimensions of human development:
1) A long and healthy life measured by life expectancy at birth
2) Knowledge, as measured by the adult literacy rate (with two-thirds weight) and the combined primary, secondary, and tertiary gross enrolment ratio (with one-third weight)
3) A decent standard of living, as measured by gross domestic product per capita at purchasing power parity in American dollars.

1 Norway
2 Iceland
3 Australia
4 Luxembourg
5 Canada
6 Sweden
7 Switzerland
8 Ireland
9 Belgium
10 United States

whats your source?

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

Do they honestly think a Janitor without any health insurance, without any chance his kid can go to college, debt up to his ears living in a sesspool of crime neighborhoods, lives better here than does a Janitor in Canada or Sweden!

Sure do.

The private capitalistic Contractor janitors on my base have neither.

Thats their choice. Not yours. My life, and what I value, is absolutely none of your business. None.

Conservatism is the use of government to ensure the welfare of the rich and powerful. That is what Republicans are only about.

I'm trying to think of a way for you to be further off base, but I'm having trouble. Conservatism is about taking responsibility for yourself. If you're a janitor with no health insurance, in a crime ridden neighborhood, you need to rethink your life decisions. What you shouldn't do, is get your congressman to take away money that other people earned so that you don't have to suffer the inconvenience of changing your life.

I've posted it numerous times but I'll put it up again. Big Money supports the Democrats, not the Republicans: Top All-Time Donors 1989-2010 Summary | OpenSecrets

Take notice: you have to get down to #87 before you find a heavy hitter that donates 90%+ to Republicans. The list is riddled with hundreds of millions of dollars going to democrats. So, again, lets talk about which party protects the elites.

Liberalism, which I don't particularly advocate, is arguably the use of government to protect the minority or disenfranchised at the expense of the majority. Communism is the use of government to protect solely the welfare of the state and the state's dictator. A dictatorship is the use of government to protect the dictator, his family, and his croonies... check out most of Africa. A theocracy, suh as in Iran, is the use of government to ensure the welfare of a religion. Even libertarianism is the use of government to ensure the welfare of the property owners and the owners of production. Yea, they are all based on welfare... and they use the power of the soverienty to enforce it.
The People never have control of their government. The only real democracy occurs when the government has an equal interest in the fate of all its citizens... an equal interest.
But I think the sun will expire when this government cares the same about a crack baby born from a prostitue as it does for George Bush's daughters or Bill Gate's son.

I think your definitions are a little off. Liberalism is not what you claim it to be. Liberalism in this country is protectionism for special interests. The trick is to make your special interest "disadvantaged". More generally, liberalism is the belief in fairly unregulated personal freedoms and tight economic restrictions on rich people. IE, we're all having a party and the rich guy next door gets to pay for it.

Dictatorship is not defined as a system that perpetuates itself. Dictatorship is rule by a central figure. This form of rule has nothing to do with communism. Communism is not a form of government, it is a philosophy. It is an amalgamation of ideas giving direction to the policies of a government. You can have a democratic communist government, or a communist monarchy. The base ideas are the same.

Libertarianism is not a system for the welfare of property owners. There are too many loaded terms in your definition for it to work. Libertarians believe in property rights, but it isn't about the welfare of property owners. Those are two different things. The libertarian system is about personal freedom. Giving people the freedom to make their lives as they want them, and keeping other people from hurting them unfairly. The only thing 'socialist', using the loose definition found on this site, is the military. People collectively contributing to a mutual interest is not a true form of socialism. Socialism is a system for redistributing wealth. Quite literally socialism = take from the rich and give to the poor.

 

[DaveUSADAV]

Of course Communisim is about government, What it is not is about is economics. Look at China. Senior rubriosa cited his source, so don't cite he did not cite his source. Conservatism has never been about self-responsibility, it is about arrogance and priveledge and its protection.
I am pro-gun, pro-soldier, pro-worker, pro-union, pro-democracy, and very pro left. I am responsible, I take care of my family, pay my taxes, served my country. My kids are respecting of adults, considerate, hard working, and polite. Yea, they are terribly pro-left. It is Conservative kids who drive wild around the streets as if they own them, call blacks you know what, expect slavery service from a waiter for her minimum wage job. Is not lesbians, gays, or liberals. It is not about choice! Are you saying a girl in the poorest ghetto in town has opportunity to be anything but a prostitute? So have you invested any money in her neighborhood to create jobs? You know how many f..ing Republicans have sent their kids to war.Zilch. It is mainly blacks and Hispanics. You Conservatives are the kind of dip..shts I would love to beat up. What crap!
The fact remains people are happier in those countries senor rubriosa cited: they live longer, they are content, they have more opportunity, they are more productive, they live freeer, and have less crime. End of story, idiot.

 

[Ericsson1228d]

You know how many f..ing Republicans have sent their kids to war.Zilch. It is mainly blacks and Hispanics. You Conservatives are the kind of dip..shts I would love to beat up. What crap!

Really, zero republicans? Oh, and there are no black or hispanic republicans? Your nonsensical statements do not do your cause any favors.

 

[SilverTrain]

My life, and what I value, is absolutely none of your business. None.

Nice all-encompassing dodge.

When I read this, for just a moment, I imagined that this meant we would be spared your impossibly arrogant, woefully simplistic inanities forever more.

But I see now, that's not the case.

 

[dude252007]

I'll go see an anti-capitalist movie when someone finds a way to not make a movie in a capitalist way. That means no ads to promote it, no loans, no greedy banks putting up the money for the studio to film. Micheal Moore should keep to his principles and declare the capital used to finance this film an unfair risk. Why is he not saying how he stole the money to make this film? Why does he not think his project are worthy of risk?




***If unemployment is 10% then 90% are employed***

 

[B_VinylBoy]

I'll go see an anti-capitalist movie when someone finds a way to not make a movie in a capitalist way. That means no ads to promote it, no loans, no greedy banks putting up the money for the studio to film. Micheal Moore should keep to his principles and declare the capital used to finance this film an unfair risk. Why is he not saying how he stole the money to make this film? Why does he not think his project are worthy of risk?

Promoting a movie, applying for a loan or borrowing money from a bank are not business traits that only apply to Capitalism.

 

[SilverTrain]

***If unemployment is 10% then 90% are employed***

You do realize that "unemployment" percentages reflect the number of people seeking a job, that can't get one?

So, when "unemployment" is at 10%, there are far less than 90% of the populace who are actually employed.

But if you feel that a situation in which one out of ten Americans who want to work and can't, is a fact worth trumpeting, then have at it I guess.

 

[lucky8]

I'll go see an anti-capitalist movie when someone finds a way to not make a movie in a capitalist way. That means no ads to promote it, no loans, no greedy banks putting up the money for the studio to film. Micheal Moore should keep to his principles and declare the capital used to finance this film an unfair risk. Why is he not saying how he stole the money to make this film? Why does he not think his project are worthy of risk?




***If unemployment is 10% then 90% are employed***

K. I agree Moore is capitalizing off of the current situation. However, you sound like an idiot comparing financial risk to personal risk...they are not comparable, at all...especially when the financial risk of these corporations was directly passed on to us...which only gives more incentive to take more risks because they know they won't have to be responsible for any downside risk. It's bullshit, they pass the downside risk on to all of us (for their own failures) while maintaining the upside for themselves. Wall Street is in bed with Washington, it's undeniable. Both Democrats and Republicans accept bribes desguised as lobbying from the finance and insurance industries.

We, as Americans, need to stop making this about left versus right, and start making it about us (the people) versus them (our government). Politicians use left v right to divide the people so they can maintain power. I'm thankful that more and more people are becoming aware of this, however, each and every one of you using the "left v right" card needs to just drop it and focus on the real issues. Politicians are all the same, their wants come first, our needs come second. Wake up.

 

[SilverTrain]

We, as Americans, need to stop making this about left versus right, and start making it about us (the people) versus them (our government). Politicians use left v right to divide the people so they can maintain power. I'm thankful that more and more people are becoming aware of this, however, each and every one of you using the "left v right" card needs to just drop it and focus on the real issues. Politicians are all the same, their wants come first, our needs come second. Wake up.

As much as I'd agree with this (which is not 100%, by any means), I would not use this argument, as so many do (not saying you are), to buttress the separate argument that government is bad, in and of itself, and that less government is always better.

Good governance is a good thing. Bad governance is a bad thing.

 

[lucky8]

Good governance is a good thing. Bad governance is a bad thing.

And here lies the problem...our government doesn't work for us anymore...they work for the corporations writing their checks. It's time we take our government back. A government by the people, of the people, and for the people I believe was the original intention

If we don't keep our government in line, who will?

 

[SilverTrain]

If we don't keep our government in line, who will?

Quite right.

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

Nice all-encompassing dodge.

When I read this, for just a moment, I imagined that this meant we would be spared your impossibly arrogant, woefully simplistic inanities forever more.

But I see now, that's not the case.

Do you seriously just sign on to post nothings? You never add to a conversation, you never bring up counter-points or even points in the first place. You just come on here and tell all conservatives that their arguments suck....because you say so. Wow, thanks for your contributions.

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

And here lies the problem...our government doesn't work for us anymore...they work for the corporations writing their checks. It's time we take our government back. A government by the people, of the people, and for the people I believe was the original intention

If we don't keep our government in line, who will?

Umm...governments work for Unions. It's a fact.

Top All-Time Donors 1989-2010 Summary | OpenSecrets

On top of that, corporations represent the mass majority of Americans. Those aren't my words, those are the words of her royal highness Hillary Clinton.

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

Of course Communisim is about government, What it is not is about is economics. Look at China.

Senior rubriosa cited his source, so don't cite he did not cite his source.

Senior is a big boy, he can provide a link just like everybody else without you saying that he did.

Conservatism has never been about self-responsibility, it is about arrogance and priveledge and its protection.[/quote] Certainly, you understand that you can't just make up what you think its about. Having read the philosophy at hand I will save you some time, you are wrong. It's about self-responsibility.

I am pro-gun, pro-soldier, pro-worker, pro-union, pro-democracy, and very pro left. I am responsible, I take care of my family, pay my taxes, served my country. My kids are respecting of adults, considerate, hard working, and polite. Yea, they are terribly pro-left.

I always love the fairy tale lives that people live when they use a description of their life to prove they are right on message boards.

It is Conservative kids who drive wild around the streets as if they own them, call blacks you know what, expect slavery service from a waiter for her minimum wage job.

WHAT THE F*** ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT?!?!??!

At 50-something I hate to tell you this, but your life can't be controlled by a series of emotional vomits. You need to have something more than a gut feeling about how the world works.

Is not lesbians, gays, or liberals.

Uh huh. They are ALL perfect little angels.

It is not about choice! Are you saying a girl in the poorest ghetto in town has opportunity to be anything but a prostitute?

Yes.

So have you invested any money in her neighborhood to create jobs?

Like....starting a business? Capitalism? Dear, get your story straight.

You know how many f..ing Republicans have sent their kids to war.Zilch. It is mainly blacks and Hispanics. You Conservatives are the kind of dip..shts I would love to beat up. What crap!

Don't let me stop you. Beat away. That's the leftist response to all problems...attack. When people wouldn't conform to the communist agrarian utopia in Cambodia the leftists just killed them off. Same in China. Same in Russia. Sadly, before it's all said and done they will do it here, too.

I know personally several "conservative idiots" that went to fight in Iraq and Afghanistan. I had conservative family members in every major conflict this country has seen. You just proved why democracy doesn't work, some people will just be blatantly retarded-stupid for no other reason than they want to hate somebody.

The fact remains people are happier in those countries senor rubriosa cited: they live longer, they are content, they have more opportunity, they are more productive, they live freeer, and have less crime. End of story, idiot.

That isn't a fact. It's your opinion dipped in emotion and ran through a life of quiet frustration.

For the record, no country is more productive than the United States.

More opportunity? Based on what? What opportunity do they have? Which one?

Less crime? You can't just say things. You have to have something more than just "blah blah blah blah." There needs to be something that tells me that you looked it up, analyzed what you found, and objectively said "is this true." Your statement tells me the exact opposite.

The live Freer? How are you measuring this? Are you just talking to talk?


btw, we all know you went to Vietnam, quit rapping yourself in the flag, you're wearing it out. (just so you have something to get angry about)

 

[B_Enough_for_Me]

I'll go see an anti-capitalist movie when someone finds a way to not make a movie in a capitalist way. That means no ads to promote it, no loans, no greedy banks putting up the money for the studio to film. Micheal Moore should keep to his principles and declare the capital used to finance this film an unfair risk. Why is he not saying how he stole the money to make this film? Why does he not think his project are worthy of risk?




***If unemployment is 10% then 90% are employed***

Does this mean Moore should give back his millions in profit?

 

[Ericsson1228d]

Does this mean Moore should give back his millions in profit?

Sure he should, I mean, why should he be rich when there are people without healthcare? He needs to redistribute that wealth!

 

[B_Hung Jon]

Socialism keeps bailing out failed capitalism beacuse we have oligarchy not democracy. Capitalism was based on free trade, now it is free trade until the bankers and money pimps get into trouble; then the politicians (you know, big government, have no money but ours) make subventions of our taxes to subsides the wanton failures of the self selected elites of Wall St. The new feudalism, Tell it how it is, Mr Moore.

I agree with ST but I also have to say that until human consciousness catches up and overcomes human greed, socialism is impossible. The majority think of themselves and their self-interests first so to truly share everything is something that will require a huge leap of self-awareness. In the meantime the economic powers that be will continue to attempt to sell us stuff we don't need because of their own self-interest.