Capitalism & Christianity

MercyfulFate

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Just... out of curiosity, what would you suggest as a reasonable, viable, applicable alternative? By asking this question I'm setting myself up for an affiliation with the radical right that I've no wish to insinuate. I'll say now, for the record, I'm not against any form of economy based on what Rush Limbaugh told me.



JSZ

I don't have a real solution because I don't think humanity has progressed far enough to figure it out. I firmly believe much of humanity has to die for real change to happen, like in Star Trek post WW3 where they essentially adopted a socialist system that worked.

Humanity is too greedy and stupid now, nothing will work right. Some combination of capitalism and socialism will probably be the best though.
 

Mensch1351

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Look back in the thread. I tried to explain it to him. I really did. :frown1:

"Der Mensch sind gut, nur die Leute sind schlecht!" That little ditty hangs on a wooden plaque in my bathroom!

My Russian Jewish boss in Phila. told me to close the door one day -- looked me in the eye and said to me with all sincerity, "I want you to know that you are a real Mensch -- and they're rare; very rare!" I took it as one of the highest compliments he could give me. And I was not aware of the "unter" Mensch. I've used the "handle" for a long time!

Apart from the almost 500 years since the Protestant Reformation and the Wiki article I fully read, which bent over backwards to say that modern Lutherans have denounced THIS aspect of Luther's writings (as well as his labeling the Pope the Anti-Christ!) -- the thread I started and the article I posted was meant to "simply" state that the more Mainstream Christians have a very differing view than the Fundamentalists when it comes to defending Capitalism in its more "cruel" forms of hoarding, gauging, greed and avarice!

The part of Ed Knudsen's preface to Luther's explanation of the 7th Commandment that caught my attention was:

"In fact, historic Protestant Christianity is so opposed to central teachings of capitalism that business today has sought to create a new form of Christianity, the religious right, that will support its views. The religious right, such as the television preachers, is a commercialized form of Christianity, which no longer, in fact, deserves to be called "Christian." The American religious right has moved so far away from the tradition of historic Protestantism of the Reformation that it can no longer be rightly called "Protestant." Religious right leaders and pastors no longer adhere to the law of God as understood in the seventh commandment as Luther discusses below. These pastors do not represent the sacred scriptures of Christian faith, the prophets of the Hebrew Bible or the preaching of the Kingdom of God of Jesus Christ, where riches are questioned and the poor are placed at the center of concern."

And finally let me state. Michele Bachmann herself is a Lutheran -- but of a particular "ilk." She comes from THE most Conservative large Lutheran tribe in the nation, "The Wisconsin Ev. Lutheran Synod." (You'll have to read a Wiki article on them to see some of their take on theology!) Most of us "other" 7 million of us wearing the Lutheran brand wouldn't agree with her stance on modern conservative Capitalism.

By the way -- thanks for your responses to this thread -- thought provoking and appreciated!
 

Mensch1351

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Simply saying "thank you" when you're really learning something is a courteousy too many people forget!

And for those of you who post things I may not agree with -- I think that's the real VALUE of a forum like this. If you surround yourself with people who only agree with you or patronize your perspective -- where's the growth? In this country we NEED the varying perspectives that enrich the public dialogue over our problems. When all is said and done, our foundational label is simply, "American!" We're just still learning to dialogue ideas in a civilized manner with as few "fuck you's" as possible!:eek::rolleyes:
 

Jason

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As a footnote, mensch entered London's cockney dialect, usually spelt mench. The meaning was something like "good chap". There was also a verb form, to have munch, something like to have good sense and decency. Cockney changes fast and I'm not sure whether mench is still used.
 

B_crackoff

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Martin Luther and antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Most historians would beg to differ that my point is ridiculous.

Perhaps you should read what the cunt wrote.

Even your name reverberates the untermensch lutheran backed philosophy of the nazis.

Hmm, even from that article Martin Luther was pretty much pro Jewish almost all of his life - you have to wonder what made him change his mind so much.

It's interesting you pick on what he wrote in the last 3 years of his life, rather than what came before.

PS if you look at the Talmud it describes all gentiles, especially Christians as the level of beasts & below; the Koran also says hideous things about the other two.

Atheists say horrible things about all three!:biggrin1:

I think the much used path of Luther to Nazism can at least be challenged from the evidence of Albert Speer.


“Hitler had been much impressed by a scrap of history he had learned from a delegation of Arabs. When the Mohammedans attempted to penetrate beyond France into Central Europe during the eighth century, his visitors had told him, they had been driven back at the Battle of Tours. Had the Arabs won this battle, the world would be Mohammedan today. For theirs was a religion that believed in spreading the faith by the sword and subjugating all nations to that faith. The Germanic peoples would have become heirs to that religion. Such a creed was perfectly suited to the Germanic temperament. Hitler said that the conquering Arabs, because of their racial inferiority, would in the long run have been unable to contend with the harsher climate and conditions of the country...


They could not have kept down the more vigorous natives, so that ultimately not Arabs but Islamized Germans could have stood at the head of this Mohammedan Empire.


“Hitler usually concluded this historical speculation by remarking, ‘You see, it’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion. Why didn’t we have the religion of the Japanese, who regard sacrifice for the Fatherland as the highest good? The Mohammedan religion too would have been much more compatible to us than Christianity. Why did it have to be Christianity with its meekness and flabbiness….

He also said in Table Talk ""Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of human failure.”


Does that sound like a follower of ML?
 

Drifterwood

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Don't get me wrong, I don't have any issue with what I see of most modern American Lutherans. It is just bizarre that what they seem to stand for is so far away from what I see from the cunt Luther in my post modern historical perspective.

Again, use mensch all you like, the association to me is from the german original and what it came to mean.

These are my personal perspectives.

And thanks, Crackers, but I am not interested in Hitler's perspectives.
 

B_crackoff

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:confused:

And Untermensch? The nazi philosophy of those in need of extermination.

The words have such dreadful connotations, I have to ask why anyone would use them.

Again, use mensch all you like, the association to me is from the german original and what it came to mean.

These are my personal perspectives.

And thanks, Crackers, but I am not interested in Hitler's perspectives.


As you can see from the top quote - you did bring it up, so you really should understand these perspectives in order to menschion Nazi philosophy!:smile:

Ok we won't ever menschion this again!