Captive Orcas

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Flashy, Sep 19, 2008.

  1. Flashy

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    This made me angry, carrying on from a semi-related thread...but i still cannot believe this is allowed to continue (both orcas and dolphins) both in terms of captivity and slaughter of dolphins in Japan and captivity in all parts of the world. :mad::mad::mad:


    It's criminal to keep such large, intelligent, highly sophisticated and emotional animals in what amounts to a concrete closet for 30 years of their life.

    read the story of Lolita, the Orca who has been in captivity in Miami's Seaquarium for nearly 30 years, while her family members in Puget Sound, who she was taken from are still alive and together...even now with very few years of her life left, they won't even transfer her to a seapen, where she could spend her remaining years in some level of mild comfort and happiness.

    the captive orca and dolphin business is a vicious and evil disgrace.

    her family is still out there, and when they played her recordings of her specific pod, she recognized their dialect immediately.

    she was captured and 1970, they killed five of her family members to get her, and took 6 more and shipped them into these concrete "aquariums" in different parts of the world, where they all died...she is still there 38 years later.

    Miami Seaquarium Lolita

    you should watch the documentary "Lolita" Slave to Entertainment"...which chronicles the despicable history of captive orcas, from how they were caught in the 60s and 70s to what still goes on in Japan and other countries today.

    http://www.slavetoentertainment.com/LolitaTrailer1.mov

    the saddest thing is, when i was in 6th grade (in 1982) i was part of my school's society for whales and dolphins, trying to ban the hunt for captive dolphins and orcas...and especially the vicious slaughter of dolphins in Japan...and still 26 years later, on it goes.

    despicable. :mad::mad::mad:
     
  2. Flashy

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  3. ManlyBanisters

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  4. Flashy

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    I understand that...but cruelty is still cruelty whether it happens to humans or other sentient beings.

    I can't do anything about NOrth Korea and their twisted leadership...but i can affect a greater chance trying to free a sentient being or stopping dolphin/Orca capture and slaughter with like minded activists, than in convincing Kim Jong Il not to be a sadistic and genocidal maniac who can get away with what he does because he has nuclear weapons, a brainwashed and psychotic society, and the support of China.
     
  5. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    Gianna Michaels would disapprove of orca captivity.

    In Marineland in Ontario, they replaced the orcas with belugas. I suppose that it was because they were better suited for the smaller habitat.

    Edit:
    I googled "lolita slave entertainment" and, well, I now need therapy.
     
    #5 D_Tintagel_Demondong, Sep 19, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  6. ManlyBanisters

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    I fucking bet you do, foolish boy! Rec is wrecked!

    Flashy - if everyone who thought they could do nothing about North Korean extermination camps put just a little energy into doing something then maybe something would get done. Write a fucking letter, send someone a check, flour bomb a congressman.

    Your government put an awful lot of money and effort and took huge risks with US citizens' lives to wage a dubious war when a good chunk of the population did not want it to - maybe if you all (and we all here in Europe too) stood up and shouted loud enough something might fucking happen.

    But no - that's too much hassle - and whales are so much cuter than emaciated Korean children! :mad:
     
  7. Flashy

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    lol...yes she would certainly disapprove...but that is mainly because her breasts are bigger than any ORCA in captivity. :wink:


    even belugas should not be in captivity, or dolphins (and orcas are in fact actually members of the dolphin family, not whales)

    these animals are simply to intelligent...and the Taiji slaughters and captures, of dolphins, orcas and pilot whales are horrific...

    the dolphin drive fisheries in Japan are absolutely evil...

    i am a member of bluivoice.org and the videos there of the taiji hunts and the lives of captive dolphins are heartbreaking

    the basic film clip is 6 minutes, and they have plenty of other clips on the site.

    BlueVoice.org - Saving Dolphins and Whales, Protecting the Oceans
     
  8. Flashy

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  9. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    I largely agree with you, Banly. I tend to take a more bottoms-up approach (don't go there), when it comes to society's woes. Churchill once said something like, "You can measure the civility of a society by how it treats it's animals, children, and elderly." This is greatly paraphrased. Does somebody know the actual quote? At any rate, I believe that if people had better morals and decency, then these international events, from war to genocide, wouldn't exist.

    How a society treats animals is a pretty good barometer of it's decency, no?
     
  10. Flashy

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    there is nothing cute about emaciated korean children...but north korea has been doing this to their citizens for decades...and they have not stopped.

    these camps and this behavior predated the War in Iraq, so you cannot blame this one on the US government. we did not do it.

    nothing happens because the NOrth Korean govenrment does not care, nor do the chinese.


    when i send my check to bluevoice, or write a congressman about dolphin hunts, i see more action taken, slowly, incrementally, the hunts have slowed measurably in recent years compared to where they were 25 years ago.

    what organization should i send a check to that can get in to North Korea and free these children without getting killed or arrested? BEcause i would do it...but there isn't one...all the organizations that have worked so ahrd to get into North Korea to secretly film, or help people escape do so because they are clandestine, and keep a low profile...those who are found out, are imprisoned or killed...

    so tell me where to send my check? I have written plenty of letters to congress on a multitude of topics...nothing ever works, unless it is on a massive scale.

    i am not about to "flourbomb" a congressman. As much as i dislike most congresspeople, it is not their fault that the North Koreans are a genocidal regime, and what can they do about it?

    even when the US or Europe has given food aid to NOrth Korea, nobody knows how much gets through to the people and it certainly does not go to the prisons...it probably goes right to the army.


    though i appreciate the plight of NOrth Korean children, and always enjoy your views, MB, this is my thread about dolphins and orcas, which happens to be something important to me.

    if you would like to start a thread about NOrth Korean children being starved to death by their government, i would be glad to join you for discussion in it.
     
  11. Flashy

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    perfectly stated.

    a society that has respect for the littlest creatures tends to have respect for higher creatures and people as well.

    the quote you are referring to is (i believe) It's said that "a nation can be judged on the way it treats it's animals." (Gandhi said this, and he said it a couple of different ways as i recall)
     
    #11 Flashy, Sep 19, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  12. ManlyBanisters

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    I have a hard time seeing so much foot stomping and hand ringing going on about animals when there is so must injustice against humans in the world.

    I was not blaming the US government - I was merely pointing out that they sold their citizens the war in Iraq based to a large extent on helping the Iraqis. The North Koreans could use a little help too, that's all.

    I'll butt out of 'your' thread now, Flashy, I just wanted to make that point. Oh, and by the way - go Google "Amnesty International" sometime... and "Medicin Sans Frontiers" - two tiny little organisations you may not have heard of who try to do what they can in a few different places around the world.

    And rec, I know what you mean - but I think us 'westerners' are big enough and ugly enough to look at the world as our society. Or at least we can't ignore shit just because it is not on our doorstep.

    But y'all carry on saving the whale - Good luck with that. Seriously. I mean it.
     
    #12 ManlyBanisters, Sep 19, 2008
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2008
  13. Flashy

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    there is injustice a plenty in this world MB, and most people do what they can, where they ca. In my charitable donations, i give as much as i can to a wide variety of charities.

    If my main concern in what i can do the *most* to help, is in concern for marine mammals, why should that be less important? I cannot affect change against the North Korean government...the only people who really can are the chinese.

    If i want to try and free Lolita, i can help in raising awareness, i know who to aim any potential boycotts at (Miami Seaquarium)....who do i boycott to stop Kim JongIL? They have no industry, no respected glboal companies or products for sale...i cannot sneak in to save the children.

    selling citizens on the war in Iraq was based on a threat to the US and a very small extent on helping the Iraqis, which by and large would be helping us.

    The innocent North Koreans could use help too, but are you suggesting we, along with the South Koreans, should fight a war against NOrth Korea considering the potential for atomic conflict, not to mention for the chance of a potential regional conflict with China as well?

    The North Korean army is massive, and North Korean government would think nothing of destroying Seoul as well.

    these are not exactly reasonable people.

    You may find it hard to believe but i am familiar with Amnesty International and Docters Without Borders...how much success have they had with stopping the NOrth Korean prison camps? NOt much....and they are among the most well funded NGO human rights organizations in the world.

    and if you were going to choose a group, Amnesty International, with all its requisite help, has done absolutely ZILCH in N Korea. all it can do is produce "reports"...

    as AI says on their own website:

    Restrictions on access

    There is little detailed information on the extent of human rights violations in North Korea due to the restrictions on access to the country for independent human rights monitors. Information and access to the country remain tightly controlled, hampering the investigation of the human rights situation on the ground. However, reports from a variety of sources suggest a pattern of serious human rights violations, such as those described below. Amnesty international has been allowed into North Korea twice – in 1991 and 1995.

    ----

    So if AI has not been allowed into NK in nearly 13 years, what exactly is it they are doing to help those people in the death camps? I mean aside from writing reports with little information?

    ----

    this is what AI suggests

    What AI calls for:

    Amnesty International has repeatedly called on the North Korean government to take measures to increase respect for human rights in the country.

    ----

    so, the sum total of the "concrete action" that AI can do is "call for" the NOrth Koreans to respect the people they are killing in their death camps...


    so you will have to excuse me if i look at AI's effectiveness in daling with North Korea to be, shall we say...impotent.

    ----

    and even the integrity of MSF provides no real help to anyone inside a country that you cannot actually *GET IN TO* in order to help:

    MSF-NORTH KOREA STATEMENT
    [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica]The present conditions in North Korea make it impossible to provide independent and impartial humanitarian assistance directly inside the country and reach those that need it most. In 2005/2006, MSF provided care to North Korean refugees through projects operating out of South Korea.[/FONT]
     
  14. pym

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    Hey FLASHY!!:wavey:, Just to let you know, I have been a lifelong champion of Animal rights and protections too.{Amongst a good deal other causes too} Don't get put off by folks trying to knock this worthy cause, or at least trying to make it seem not 'Worthwhile' in respect to other causes. All creatures great and small, the lord god made them all. There are many ways to spread positive force in this world, Saving and protecting very endangered and sentient species is most certainly one of them. One does what one can.
     
  15. Flashy

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    thanks pym. :smile:
     
  16. sdbg

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    I understand that we can learn about animals by visiting aquariums and zoos. I live 5 miles away from Sea World. I feel sorry for the animals "in prison". When I go to the San Diego Zoo, I feel the same way about the animals kept "in jail" at the zoo. At least at the Wild Animal Park in Escondido, the animals have space to move about. When I was a young adult, I had fish tanks with South American Cichlids. One day it occured to me that I am keeping these creatures hostage. I sold the fish tank and haven't had a pet since.

    Every now and then I'll be swimming in the ocean and see a pod of dolphins near the surf line. It's very cool to see them in their natural setting, and it's usually a good sign that there are no sharks nearby.
     
  17. D_Rod Staffinbone

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    i was held captive in a former relationship. i do offer my sympathy.
    it's gets difficult to do necessary breeding activities while in captivity.
    hope this helps.

    offroad
     
  18. bobabooey69

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    I used to be a Sea world employee, when I got into the park before the crowds came in. I always used to walk past the dolphin and whale tanks. They used to swim up sometimes and look right at me, with their dark eyes...it truly seemed they are more intelligent than people give them credit for.

    If it were up to me they should all be set free.
     
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