D_Gunther Snotpole
Account Disabled
I always thought you were judge and jury of everyone's equilibrium.
I guess that would be your mental bench.
Is the pension good?:biggrin1:
Caster Semenya
- Thread starter StrictlyAvg
- Start date
I always thought you were judge and jury of everyone's equilibrium.
I guess that would be your mental bench.
Is the pension good?:biggrin1:
"That's a bingo!! (quietly) Is that how you say that?"
Lt. Aldo Raine: "We just say 'bingo.'"
Col whatshisname: "... Bingoo!"
Yeah, that's definitely a hard call. I agree that she didn't cheat on purpose. Her coaches/team managers maybe should have listened to the doubters and tried some testing of their own, and the IAAF certainly could have handled this even before the world championships.
I can't imagine what she's thinking now, though. She's spent her competitive athletic life thinking that she was a really fast girl, but now she's kind of a fast non-quite-girl or a slow not-quite-guy. What a way to be "outed"... :frown1:
Like the IAAF had said the day this story broke, we like to make rules that are clear and consistent, but nature is often sloppy and doesn't follow all the rules.
here is the full article link to "the Australian" newspaper
Caster Semenya in hiding after tests reveal she has 'internal testes' | The Australian
Caster Semenya in hiding after tests reveal she has 'internal testes' | The Australian
here is something to think about on the topic of "did anyone know"
apparently, she does not have womb either, along with not having ovaries.
i am not sure of the status but since they said she has both male and female sex organs, i take that to mean, she has a vagina, in whatever form of development that takes in people affected by this, as well as the internal testes...
but here is a question:
there is one thing that i think someone must have known at some point:
if Caster (or anyone in this position) does not have a womb, but more importantly ovaries, than she can not ovulate...
thus, she could not menstruate, could she? there is no way for it occur, because an egg is not produced and neither is estrogen...
is that right? (please anyone familiar with this please chime in on the fact of if that would or would not be the case)
if she has no ovaries, she cannot produce estrogen.
if she cannot produce estrogen and has no ovaries or womb, then she cannot menstruate...
considering the important role estrogen plays in female development, and the role testosterone plays in male development, it obviously makes perfect sense when one looks at Caster from the objective physical sense...
i.e. with the exception of the vagina, she is an inherently male body type/structure, because of the presence of 3 times the amount of testosterone a normal woman has and none of the estrogen a woman has.
my point is, if she never ever menstruated, which is very likely, would someone not have spotted this?
I understand she is from a poor village, and as such, had very little in the way of advanced care...if she ever spoke with her mother about it, which i must assume she would since it is sort of natural for a woman to teach her daughter about dealing with menstruation etc. when one is growing up...would they think something was wrong? would they be able to get an opinion medically? did they? i bet they probably did not when she was younger, and since she is still very young (under 19) it is very possible, that doctors up until she was 15 or 16 just said that she was a slow developer in terms of puberty/menstruation, which is entirely possible...
but at some point, considering she is now nearly 19, you have to guess that she dealt with *SOMEONE* in the South African federation, responsible for the medical care of its athletes...
if you are in training of this type, sponsored by the federation, you have access to just about every kind of training and medical care, that might isn't available to the poor in S.Africa...
I cannot believe that she would not speak to a doctor, even to ask the question...but even if she did not ask the question, wouldn't the doctors be doing checkups on her? to make sure she was in the best of health? to determine her training regiemen? to test her blood, to make sure it was safe for her to train?
i think something is going on inside of the federation...
i am hoping that Caster did not know about this...but if it was known, by the S.A. federation, and they covered it up, that is terrible.
in a way she is a bit of a pawn for them...
i want to believe the best about her...i still am going to givee her the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise,
i hope i am right, that if anyone knew, it was the RSA federation, and they kept it from her...because if they told her, and she went ahead, then it would mean she knew she was cheating...i hope that is not the case. :frown1:
apparently, she does not have womb either, along with not having ovaries.
i am not sure of the status but since they said she has both male and female sex organs, i take that to mean, she has a vagina, in whatever form of development that takes in people affected by this, as well as the internal testes...
but here is a question:
there is one thing that i think someone must have known at some point:
if Caster (or anyone in this position) does not have a womb, but more importantly ovaries, than she can not ovulate...
thus, she could not menstruate, could she? there is no way for it occur, because an egg is not produced and neither is estrogen...
is that right? (please anyone familiar with this please chime in on the fact of if that would or would not be the case)
if she has no ovaries, she cannot produce estrogen.
if she cannot produce estrogen and has no ovaries or womb, then she cannot menstruate...
considering the important role estrogen plays in female development, and the role testosterone plays in male development, it obviously makes perfect sense when one looks at Caster from the objective physical sense...
i.e. with the exception of the vagina, she is an inherently male body type/structure, because of the presence of 3 times the amount of testosterone a normal woman has and none of the estrogen a woman has.
my point is, if she never ever menstruated, which is very likely, would someone not have spotted this?
I understand she is from a poor village, and as such, had very little in the way of advanced care...if she ever spoke with her mother about it, which i must assume she would since it is sort of natural for a woman to teach her daughter about dealing with menstruation etc. when one is growing up...would they think something was wrong? would they be able to get an opinion medically? did they? i bet they probably did not when she was younger, and since she is still very young (under 19) it is very possible, that doctors up until she was 15 or 16 just said that she was a slow developer in terms of puberty/menstruation, which is entirely possible...
but at some point, considering she is now nearly 19, you have to guess that she dealt with *SOMEONE* in the South African federation, responsible for the medical care of its athletes...
if you are in training of this type, sponsored by the federation, you have access to just about every kind of training and medical care, that might isn't available to the poor in S.Africa...
I cannot believe that she would not speak to a doctor, even to ask the question...but even if she did not ask the question, wouldn't the doctors be doing checkups on her? to make sure she was in the best of health? to determine her training regiemen? to test her blood, to make sure it was safe for her to train?
i think something is going on inside of the federation...
i am hoping that Caster did not know about this...but if it was known, by the S.A. federation, and they covered it up, that is terrible.
in a way she is a bit of a pawn for them...
i want to believe the best about her...i still am going to givee her the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise,
i hope i am right, that if anyone knew, it was the RSA federation, and they kept it from her...because if they told her, and she went ahead, then it would mean she knew she was cheating...i hope that is not the case. :frown1:
The poor woman. It must be awful for her to find out all of a sudden that she's not who or what she thought she was, and for this to happen in such a public way makes it ten times worse. All of her hopes, dreams and aspirations will have been shattered. Imagine the psychological trauma she's going through. She has my sympathy. It's going to take a hell of a long time for her to come to terms with it if she ever does.
As far as I know, menstruation in female athletes can be a bit erratic, especially if they're training hard. I can't remember the exact details, but I'm sure I read that when body fat drops below a certain percentage that menstruation stops, so that's one possible reason why neither she nor her coaches thought anything of it. However, if anyone did know the truth about her and let her continue, they deserve to be shot, because it was bound to come out sooner or later and they deliberately set her up for a fall. You don't play around with people in that way.
As far as I know, menstruation in female athletes can be a bit erratic, especially if they're training hard. I can't remember the exact details, but I'm sure I read that when body fat drops below a certain percentage that menstruation stops, so that's one possible reason why neither she nor her coaches thought anything of it. However, if anyone did know the truth about her and let her continue, they deserve to be shot, because it was bound to come out sooner or later and they deliberately set her up for a fall. You don't play around with people in that way.
Semen yeah? Kind of ironic...
This really does suck...hopefully she is not terribly hurt.
- Joined
- Dec 23, 2006
- Posts
- 22,256
- Media
- 213
- Likes
- 32,279
- Points
- 618
- Location
- Kathmandu (Bagmati Province, Nepal)
- Sexuality
- 100% Gay, 0% Straight
- Gender
- Male
An "unexpected wrinkle":
Caster Semenya, forced to take gender test, is a woman ... and a man
Caster Semenya, forced to take gender test, is a woman ... and a man
justmeincal
Experimental Member
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2005
- Posts
- 1,022
- Media
- 16
- Likes
- 14
- Points
- 258
- Location
- San Diego County
- Sexuality
- 90% Gay, 10% Straight
- Gender
- Male
*Excellent* point Viking...i had not thought of that.
well done...
it makes the situation even more confusing in terms of "if anyone could have known" though ! It also makes even more sense about why many may not have picked up on this!
Yeah, no kidding. It's been a long time since we've seen someone knowingly cheat about their gender, though, too. Maybe they tried to pull a fast one after forgetting that cheaters have been caught in the past.
On more thought (and I think it was brought up before) --
Should there be a competition category for hermaphrodites?
We have Special Olympics for developmentally challenged people, Paralympics for people missing body parts (there, they argue about runners with two prosthetic legs cheating by using longer legs), etc., so that athletes can compete on their own level without concerning themselves with someone like Carl Lewis.
But, they all still have simply Men's and Women's categories.
Are there enough hermaphrodite athletes to fill out a world class competition?
Would such a category be immediately labeled as discriminatory?
Should there be a competition category for hermaphrodites?
We have Special Olympics for developmentally challenged people, Paralympics for people missing body parts (there, they argue about runners with two prosthetic legs cheating by using longer legs), etc., so that athletes can compete on their own level without concerning themselves with someone like Carl Lewis.
But, they all still have simply Men's and Women's categories.
Are there enough hermaphrodite athletes to fill out a world class competition?
Would such a category be immediately labeled as discriminatory?
From http://sports.yahoo.com/top/news?slug=ys-intersexplight090913&prov=ap&type=lgns
A good point in there also:
Exactly. Now we need to start disqualifying women with long legs, because that gives them a competitive advantage.
Ericsson1228d
Experimental Member
Sounds good. Let's just let everyone (men, women and hermaphrodites) compete in the same event. That way there is no disqualifying "internal testes" or "long legs" or penises and testicles. Point being, you have to draw the line somewhere, that is why there are events for women and events for men. If you want to call it discrimination, let them all compete against each other. Billie Jean King proved gender shouldn't matter.
Right -- no more WNBA, no more Title IX in the NCAA, let boys play field hockey right alongside the girls.
Bicycle racing is one area where gender differences become apparent (discounting steroid users like Tammy Thomas). Road racers are divided by skill and speed into five categories -- Cat 1, Cat 2, etc, with 1 being the fastest. Cat 1 women have been known to hang with men in Cat 4 and maybe 3 if the guys are slow, but usually not for the whole race (they'd get dropped by the pack and pulled out of the race by officials), and never out in front. If they didn't separate races by gender, women would never win any top events -- the difference really is that big.
Some sports don't depend on physical differences as much, of course. But, in many, especially in track & field, it matters a lot. Flo Jo's record 100m women's time, which still stands over twenty years later, is also slower than the marks set by men in the 1920s (and, despite suffering seizures after retirement, it's still rumored that she was juicing).
Bingo...
just as i suspected and mentioned earlier...
people in the South African federation knew before the race...the doctor raised concerns...the president of the Atheltics S.A. federation lied about it.
South African official lied about Semenya gender tests - CNN.com
just as i suspected and mentioned earlier...
people in the South African federation knew before the race...the doctor raised concerns...the president of the Atheltics S.A. federation lied about it.
South African official lied about Semenya gender tests - CNN.com
