Cathédrale Notre-dame De Paris Destroyed

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A devastating loss for the world.
Paris, nous pleurons avec vous.

15-notre-dame-fire-3.w700.h700.2x.jpg


Notre Dame Fire Ravages Iconic Paris Cathedral | HuffPost
 

twoton

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Sung to London Bridge is Falling Down:

Notre Dame is burning down, burning down, burning down
Notre Dame is burning down our fair lady.

What? Too soon? Too iconoclastic? Okay.

Too soon. It's like saying "Go full power-up," in 1986.

Interestingly, insofar as this is particularly interesting to me--most of the online despair I've seen is coming from non-Catholics and people who view Notre Dame as a more-or-less secular symbol of French pride, heritage, and unity. There is, of course, absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's also fascinating how my non-Catholic friends are posting how they'd been spiritually overwhelmed, personally, when visiting and experiencing Notre Dame.

The Catholic sites I've seen tend to have a more pragmatic view of it. E.g., it's a tragedy, but no lives were lost, relics and artwork were saved, many of the parts that burned needed to be replaced anyway, the church is a place that represents something larger than the building itself.
 

englad

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Too soon. It's like saying "Go full power-up," in 1986.

Interestingly, insofar as this is particularly interesting to me--most of the online despair I've seen is coming from non-Catholics and people who view Notre Dame as a more-or-less secular symbol of French pride, heritage, and unity. There is, of course, absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's also fascinating how my non-Catholic friends are posting how they'd been spiritually overwhelmed, personally, when visiting and experiencing Notre Dame.

The Catholic sites I've seen tend to have a more pragmatic view of it. E.g., it's a tragedy, but no lives were lost, relics and artwork were saved, many of the parts that burned needed to be replaced anyway, the church is a place that represents something larger than the building itself.

Why are you surprised by that though? I'm an atheist, I see this as a major tragedy. The historic value of the site takes precedence, not its religious symbolism. I can imagine if the Palace of Versailles were burning down, you'd have a similar reaction.
 

ryan25yo

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Too soon. It's like saying "Go full power-up," in 1986.

Interestingly, insofar as this is particularly interesting to me--most of the online despair I've seen is coming from non-Catholics and people who view Notre Dame as a more-or-less secular symbol of French pride, heritage, and unity. There is, of course, absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's also fascinating how my non-Catholic friends are posting how they'd been spiritually overwhelmed, personally, when visiting and experiencing Notre Dame.

The Catholic sites I've seen tend to have a more pragmatic view of it. E.g., it's a tragedy, but no lives were lost, relics and artwork were saved, many of the parts that burned needed to be replaced anyway, the church is a place that represents something larger than the building itself.


Well put.
 
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halcyondays

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Too soon. It's like saying "Go full power-up," in 1986.

Interestingly, insofar as this is particularly interesting to me--most of the online despair I've seen is coming from non-Catholics and people who view Notre Dame as a more-or-less secular symbol of French pride, heritage, and unity. There is, of course, absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's also fascinating how my non-Catholic friends are posting how they'd been spiritually overwhelmed, personally, when visiting and experiencing Notre Dame.

The Catholic sites I've seen tend to have a more pragmatic view of it. E.g., it's a tragedy, but no lives were lost, relics and artwork were saved, many of the parts that burned needed to be replaced anyway, the church is a place that represents something larger than the building itself.

It's the depth of grief and sadness which surprises me. Fifty-five percent of the French population identifies as Catholic but only 5% practice the faith. The cathedral narrowly escaped destruction during the Revolution. As centers and symbols of despotic power I don't know why anyone would shed a tear if either or both Versailles or Notre Dame burned.

Don't forget that Notre Dame--Our Lady, Our Mother Church--continues to work hard to deny women reproductive choice and thinks divorce should be illegal as well. And that's the short list of her evils.

The ancient artwork? The stained glass? Beautiful though it was for most of its 800 year history it was all in aid of indoctrinating and pacifying a credulous illiterate population, terrifying them with the promise of eternal torture in flames. How lovely.

Excuse me but relics? Does anyone believe for a second that ND housed the actual crown of thorns or wood from the actual cross?
 
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englad

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It's the depth of grief and sadness which surprises me. Fifty-five percent of the French population identifies as Catholic but only 5% practice the faith. The cathedral narrowly escaped destruction during the Revolution. As centers and symbols of despotic power I don't know why anyone would shed a tear if either or both Versailles or Notre Dame burned.

Don't forget that Notre Dame--Our Lady, Our Mother Church--continues to work hard to deny women reproductive choice and thinks divorce should be illegal as well. And that's the short list of her evils.

The ancient artwork? The stained glass? Beautiful though it was for most of its 800 year history it was all in aid of indoctrinating and pacifying a credulous illiterate population, terrifying them with the promise of eternal torture in flames. How lovely.

Excuse me but relics? Does anyone believe for a second that ND housed the actual crown of thorns or wood from the actual cross?

For fuck sake man. France is a deeply secular republic, both the monarchy and the primacy of the catholic church in the country are dead, and have been dead for a long time. It's been 189 years since the Bourbon family were ousted from France. These "centres of despotic power" haven't had any power in France for ages. These are historical buildings, oddly enough, the only buildings that ever stand the test of time for that kind of period are those built for the rich and powerful. Because the rich and powerful had the money to build huge buildings that could stand the test of time. Disagreeing with the world view of those who built them, doesn't mean that you can't appreciate the architecture and historical significance of them. It makes a change from being yet another bland, copy paste, sky scraper ridden modern city. Plus, Versailles in particular, brings in shitloads of tourist revenue to the country.

How many average person dwellings still exist from the middle ages, pray?
 
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twoton

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How many average person dwellings still exist from the middle ages, pray?

Points awarded for using an old word re: the old world.

Aside from that, the Catholic Church isn’t trying to make divorce illegal. The church recognizes there are circumstances when divorce is the only option. But that’s all beside the point of the thread.
 

halcyondays

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How many average person dwellings still exist from the middle ages, pray?

Perhaps more "average person dwellings" from the Middle Ages would have survived if the church had build good housing for people instead of massive stone edifices which consolidated power of the oligarchs over the people. The average person lived in a hovel and was owned by the aristocracy.

I'm not happy to see any building burn. The danger to people and firefighters is tremendous.

I tip my cap to France for being a deeply secular republic with strong anti-clerical history, but I cannot forget or forgive the centuries of despotism which drove the people to violent revolution to become a secular republic. Nothing symbolizes those abuses more than the cathedrals which dot the towns except perhaps the palaces of the aristocracy. If Catholicism was a dead religion and her cathedrals archeological sites I might be more moved by the loss. It's not and I'm not.

It will be rebuilt. Millions of people will donate money to restore a big old cathedral of a religion they don't practice and a theology they ignore. Ironic isn't it?
 

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Perhaps more "average person dwellings" from the Middle Ages would have survived if the church had build good housing for people instead of massive stone edifices which consolidated power of the oligarchs over the people. The average person lived in a hovel and was owned by the aristocracy.

Except setting this standard is essentially at odds with everywhere on earth. The Egyptian pyramids? Basically religious tombs to help the pharoahs have a rich afterlife. The Mayan pyramids? Again built by the priesthood and royalty. Stonehenge? Also a religious site from what we can tell. The main buildings left in Angkor Wat? Hindu temples. The Collisseum? Not religious, but built by the powerful. This is a daft argument. It basically side steps the reality of the entirety of human archaeological history.
 
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Bisogna chiarire subito una cosa: la cattedrale non è andata distrutta. Non bisogna ricostruire la cattedrale, ma il tetto.
Le travi di legno che sorreggono la copertura in piombo non sono a vista, ma sopra la volta in pietra. Possono essere rifatte con legno lamellare, più leggero e con trattamento ignifugo. Non ha importanza che le travi siano uguali a prima. Non si vedono, non hanno importanza dal punto di vista estetico, ma dal punto di vista strutturale.
Non c'è nulla di tragico, Notre Dame è stata rimaneggiata più volte e la guglia crollata è dell'800. In Italia il Teatro alla Scala di Milano è stato borbandato durante la seconda guerra mondiale, il Petruzzelli è andato a fuoco, la Fenice pure.
Il campanile in piazza San Marco a Venezia è crollato e poi ricostruito, la mole Antonelliana a Torino colpita da un fulmine, la cupola del Guarini (Sindone) è andata a fuoco, ad Assisi col terremoto è caduta una volta con gli affreschi di Giotto, insomma tutte strutture rinate. A Parigi con 700 milioni di euro in donazione direi che non ci si debba preoccupare più di tanto. Notre Dame tornerà più bella di prima, magari non in cinque anni.
 
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Bisogna chiarire subito una cosa: la cattedrale non è andata distrutta. Non bisogna ricostruire la cattedrale, ma il tetto.
Le travi di legno che sorreggono la copertura in piombo non sono a vista, ma sopra la volta in pietra. Possono essere rifatte con legno lamellare, più leggero e con trattamento ignifugo. Non ha importanza che le travi siano uguali a prima. Non si vedono, non hanno importanza dal punto di vista estetico, ma dal punto di vista strutturale.
Non c'è nulla di tragico, Notre Dame è stata rimaneggiata più volte e la guglia crollata è dell'800. In Italia il Teatro alla Scala di Milano è stato borbandato durante la seconda guerra mondiale, il Petruzzelli è andato a fuoco, la Fenice pure.
Il campanile in piazza San Marco a Venezia è crollato e poi ricostruito, la mole Antonelliana a Torino colpita da un fulmine, la cupola del Guarini (Sindone) è andata a fuoco, ad Assisi col terremoto è caduta una volta con gli affreschi di Giotto, insomma tutte strutture rinate. A Parigi con 700 milioni di euro in donazione direi che non ci si debba preoccupare più di tanto. Notre Dame tornerà più bella di prima, magari non in cinque anni.
Translation:
“One thing needs to be clarified immediately: the cathedral has not been destroyed. We must not rebuild the cathedral, but the roof.
The wooden beams that support the lead cover are not visible, but above the stone vault. They can be redone with laminated wood, lighter and with fireproof treatment. It does not matter that the beams are the same as before. They are not seen, they are not important from an aesthetic point of view, but from a structural point of view.
There is nothing tragic, Notre Dame has been remodeled several times and the collapsed spire is from the 1800s. In Italy the Teatro alla Scala in Milan was mumbled during the Second World War, the Petruzzelli went on fire, the Fenice as well.
The bell tower in Piazza San Marco in Venice collapsed and then rebuilt, the Antonellian mass in Turin struck by lightning, the dome of Guarini (Shroud) went up in flames, in Assisi with the earthquake it once fell with Giotto's frescoes, in short, all structures reborn. In Paris with 700 million euros in donation I would say that we should not worry too much. Notre Dame will come back more beautiful than before, maybe not in five years.”

Grazie, Geremia, per la tua prospettiva sulla Cattedrale di Nostra Signora a Parigi. Sì, è stato danneggiato prima ma è stato anche ripristinato. È una cosa buona da ricordare. Attendo con impazienza il suo restauro.
 
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