Catholic Church does not hate gays, period.

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by D_Dingus Nosedigger, Dec 20, 2009.

  1. D_Dingus Nosedigger

    D_Dingus Nosedigger New Member

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    So being a gay man and also a Catholic, I've decided to extend my views to better encompass both sides of the gay marriage argument. I always had this viewpoint that gays were special and unique; that the big bad Catholic Church was just beating up on them for that difference.

    I'm firmly in support of gay rights, so I decided to go to a bible study that my Catholic group offers that actually specializes in why gay actions are wrong...just to see their logic. It's called "the Theology of the Body"

    I was happily surprised to hear that the Church doesn't hate gays, and doesn't disapprove of gay relationships (caveat: they have to be celibate bromance sort of relationships).

    The only reason why they oppose gay sex is simply because two men (or two women) can't biologically fit together like opposite sex couples can. Without that biological fit, the two people cannot express their love fully and fully give themselves to their partner. It's a matter of natural law, they say.

    I hear their logic, ultimately, I disagree with it. They are measuring love, an emotion, with the physcal makeup of genitalia. Love is an emotional response to someone based on the chemicals released in the brain, not by what your genitals feel.
     
  2. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    The catholic church like many other faiths are chauvinists, that explains it all.

    Women are second rate in the eyes of the faith.

    Men are so utterly superior and fantastic that if homosexuality was left unchallenged then every man would give in to the pleasures of the manflesh and no new babies would be being born. :(

    No, that just won't do.
     
  3. justasimpleguy

    justasimpleguy Active Member

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    I guess you missed the news about the Church threatening to close all it's aid programs in DC if gay marriage was legalized.
    First of all, the Church does not control the institution of marriage. Neither are they the font of all morality.
    Second, who the fuck threatens to put homeless people out in the cold if their dogma isn't followed by secular government? Haters.
     
  4. joyboytoy79

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    I have to say, i agree with justasimpleguy. If they don't hate, why would the be so willing to punish innocent people for living in a city that recognizes the gay right to marry?

    I also take exception to the logic that says "an incomplete ability to physically love another person means you must never have physical love." First of all, two men CAN biologically fit together in exactly same way that many straight couples do. Yes, straight couples have anal sex. Two women CAN biologically fit together in exactly the same way that many straight couples do. Yes, straight couples engage in cunnilingus.

    If biology is the true issue, and reproduction is the ultimate goal (which is what they're REALLY driving at) then the only way their "incomplete love" argument holds water is if they also decree that post menopausal women, men with permanent erectile dysfunction, and sterile men and women (including those who elect to have surgeries, ie tubal ligation and vasectomy, to render themselves sterile) must be precluded from marriage. They don't advocate any such restrictions on marriage. They can try to sugar-coat any other way, but really, the only reason they don't want gays to marry is because they don't like gays. The fact that they dislike us enough to try to deny us equal protection under the law points toward hatred, period.
     
  5. Axcess

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    The Catholic Church like most christians denominations are hypocrites with respect of gays . The truth is that gays are second class people to them . That's stupid when you consider that the Catholic Church is basically a gay institution. At very least 50 % of priests and nuns are gay.
     
    #5 Axcess, Dec 21, 2009
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2009
  6. D_Andreas Sukov

    D_Andreas Sukov Account Disabled

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    i really wanted someone to say, give me som whipped cream and a volounteer and ill prove two men can biologically fit.
     
  7. ZOS23xy

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    The title is pure BS. The catholic religion is not so much a church as a politcal organization. They have their sticky fingers in local politics when they aren't examining small children.

    An organization that tells me how to have sex and what I should do to have lots of kids is an organization that hasn't realized the middle ages have ended, children live longer and mankind will prospect just quite fine without pseudo divine intervention. If the popes are infallable, why all this fuss about Fridays, Purgatory Latin and the Popes who had children or died on top of their mistresses?
     
  8. littlemanmike

    littlemanmike New Member

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    Hey heytherepeople,

    I did a theology of the body program last year too and I also was not satisfied with the "natural law" explanation (except my beef was condom use). Overall, I kinda found a reason for that one, I appreciate how hard it must be for you to be gay and Catholic, but I think, ultimately that God doesn't hate gays.

    As for everyone else with a negative view on religion/the Roman Catholic church, you can choose to see what you like in the organization, but it appears many of you have not looked further than the internet if you are blind to "the good side" of being Catholic. One last point I have to make is that the church is comprised of people like myself and heytherepeople, we, the members, are the most important component of the living church. How can you expect the church to be perfect when all its members have flaws. Everyone needs to stop assuming the worst about organizations based on a few members that they don't like, its not fair to any organization. I mean, I don't think all Americans are idiots just because of G.W. Bush :)
     
  9. Astrate

    Astrate New Member

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    Can't you see this is made-up bollocks.

    For the life of me I can't understand why any gay person would belong to an institution that you look to for guidance and compassion which, instead, discriminates against you and tries to stop you having what straight people get.
     
  10. Astrate

    Astrate New Member

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    Sure, but this isn't about the members, it's about the doctrine
     
  11. B_mitchymo

    B_mitchymo New Member

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    What you say is quite true but the crucial difference between your analogy and the Catholic church is that too few of the influential members are taking an opposing position on homosexuality. The church does not change at the speed that governments do and the people have a much larger voice. It is ironic that at least one pope has been rumoured to have been homosexual and yet the church is still discrimatory towards gay people.

    The church view is surely 'it is ok to be gay as long as you don't do anything that constitutes being gay'?

    How about asking the Pope to be a catholic but stop representing the faith? A bit tough eh? The institution is homophobic where unfortunately it counts so gay members mean squat quite frankly.
     
  12. ZOS23xy

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    I think the Church in that region will suffer from irony, since the US Government state and local governments began diverting donations to Catholic charities after the sex scandals become wife open and acknowledged. And many individuals phased out their donations out of disgust.

    I used to think H.G. Wells was being an old cranky man when he wrote the 1944 book WHY DO WE NOT BOMB ROME? The politics hasn't gotten any clearer there, as they recently just acknowledged Copernicus just might have been right, after all. 400, 500 years later?
     
  13. Kafm

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    Because only the extremists are going to be shown in the media. There are just as many Christians and Catholics who think "Love Thy Neighbor" goes above what any individual priest may think and say.
     
  14. littlemanmike

    littlemanmike New Member

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    Doctrine may be remaining the same, but people are changing. Doctrine usually takes a lot longer to change. Theres only really been huge pushes in the gay issue relatively recently, and it will take the church time to adapt. The last thing the church doctrine needs is to make this change then have to go back on it later on. So right now the "safest" thing for the church to do, from their point of view, is to not drastically change things and discredit the doctrine. I totally understand the frustration of the wait though. Rome wasn't built in a day, neither was the church within it, and overall all good things take time.
     
  15. hud01

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    It is not the members, it is the leadership.

    When the last vote came up on gay marriage, the priest at the Catholic church in my town told everyone who went to church the Sunday before that it was their duty to vote against it.

    Then there was that little thing earlier this year where the Pope reiterated his stance against condoms saying they don't help fight AID's.

    I know it is now old news, but how about the years of covering up the child abuse. This was not at the member level, but at the diocese level or higher.

    When it comes to member level 20 years ago a family member committed suicide. I received a call from a "very good friend" of that side of the family. She said she was sorry to hear about it, but wouldn't be attending the funeral because of the church's stance on it.

    None of these above events had anything to do with the internet.
     
  16. D_Smidley Smelliepits

    D_Smidley Smelliepits Account Disabled

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    I think this thread is about the Catholic Church, not God. If you think God doesn't hate gays, good for you!

    If now it's all about the members, sorry to say this, but it's bloody high time the members themselves start changing things and raising their voices inside the Catholic Church. And if you can't, then I suggest you find another organization/religion where your opinion is much more heard and appreciated.
     
  17. B_Stronzo

    B_Stronzo New Member

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    This is a plant post to incite gay posters.

    Beyond that the illogic of it contradicts itself. It's a waste of time respondiing further to this idiot.
     
  18. D_Dingus Nosedigger

    D_Dingus Nosedigger New Member

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    In hindesight, I wish I could change the title of my post. It does hold true though...they don't hate us, they simply don't like the action of gay sex.

    It seems that EVERYONE aside from littlemanmike seemed to have missed my last paragraph that details why their logic is wrong. I await the day someone has enough guts to bring it to the Theology of the Body Institutes's people that, they are measuring an emotion by physical appearance...which is stupid.

    Also, people who can't have sex (such as paralyzed or something horrible like that) aren't allowed to get married in the Church because the whole purpose of marriage is to have sex, and consequently, have kids.

    The real conundrum is that Mary and Joseph never had sex or had kids yet they were still married according to the church for some random reason....
     
  19. Astrate

    Astrate New Member

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    Does doctrine ever change?

    Interpretations may change, but can't ever see a papal encyclical declaring that gay sex is fine 'cos the bible got it all wrong.

    Until there's a papal decree there will always be conservatives in the hierachy who will ram home the "god given" dogma
     
  20. littlemanmike

    littlemanmike New Member

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    I think the main point was that the catholic church doesn't hate gay people, some of the members do, but there are non-catholics who hate gays too. Also, you can't really say that the doctrine against gay acts is gay hating, but it does show a hesitation to change, not hating gays, which was the main point.
     
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