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CBO: Under Obama's Budget Debt Level Will Rise to 90% of GDP in Nine Years

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Trinity, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. Trinity

    Trinity Banned

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    Does anyone believe that Obama's agenda is sustainable? It is utter madness to allow this to happen to our country.

    Obama has been off in his projections all along and as of Thursday the CBO says his budget will create a deficit 90% of GDP in 9 years and his budget was 1.2 Trillion off in it's projections.:rolleyes:

    CBO: Debt level will rise to 90% of GDP in nine years
    on March 27, 2010

    Washington Times

    Washington Times

    Then they know it is madness and just proceed. :rolleyes: Democrats are out in November for being stupid.
     
  2. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Cherished Member

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    Oh... thank goodness Trinity... it's the CBO estimate. You already said that the CBO can't be trusted -- you know with them estimating that the healthcare reform law will *reduce* the deficit by 1.2 Trillion.

    They must now be influenced by the right, instead of the left.
     
  3. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy Banned

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    Here Trinity, maybe this will help you with whatever mental disorder it is that you're afflicted with...

    www.healthyplace.com
     
  4. Trinity

    Trinity Banned

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    No. The CBO is bound by accounting rules and they are bound by what is submitted to them. Even by what Obama submitted...he's off by 1.2 Trillion and will have this country at a debt level of 90% of GDP in 9 years.
     
  5. D_Fortumus Wigglesack

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    Your first problem is citing a source I've seen you say is unreliable before. Your second is assuming that everything in the budget is supposed to be long-term spending anyway. And your worst mistake is comparing it to Bush's deficit as though all deficits are the same. Bush was like going to the bank to get a loan for buying a ton of shiny balloons; Obama is more like using that loan to weatherize his house for lower electric bills.
     
  6. B_RedDude

    B_RedDude Banned

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    No matter how one looks at it, none of this would be as bad if good ol' George W hadn't run up the deficit as high as he did in his 8 years in office with his tax cuts and immoral war in Iraq (after coming into office with a budget surplus, that is). Obama is trying to move the country forward, but is terribly hampered by the legacy of George W. Bush.
     
  7. D_Fortumus Wigglesack

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    Oh, and the public debt was over 80% of our GDP before Obama even took office. Responsible investments (gasp) reap in positive rewards. Just look at FDR; it's the new "in" thing now for rpublicans to revise history and attack him, but not only did he establish things that resulted in us leading the world by 1950, but because he proposed sensible bills, even the big scary price tags on them and the debt-to-GDP ratio had dropped back down to normal within 20 years after his policies were implemented.

    Now really, just why do you even come here to troll people trinity? Were the Ron Paul-worshiping kids at 4chan too tough to fool?
     
  8. Pitbull

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  9. Trinity

    Trinity Banned

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    Do you have a citation for that?
     
  10. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy Banned

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  11. D_Fortumus Wigglesack

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    United States public debt

    several links to CBO and various other reports out there. Now grow up and find something better to do than turn a simple politics subsection of a sex-based forum into a provocative, distorted, one-man freakshow please.
     
  12. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Cherished Member

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    Trinity,

    You forget that Bush *never* paid for his wars through the normal budget process.

    Also, you have the unfunded Medicare Prescription program, *and* the Trillion dollar tax break to the rich.

    Bush just hid all of his spending and claimed that everything was peachy!

    Please remember that Bush came in office with the biggest problem being that we may pay off the national debt too early because of the surpluses that Clinton gave him.

    He drove this country into the ground, and now when a democrat needs to fix it again, you are pissed.

    Daily Kos: State of the Nation!

    -Mike
     
  13. Pitbull

    Gold Member

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    Looking at the above chart you cited,
    my thought is that the debt was very high from 1940-1945 because of World War II.
    And that it came down in the years following because the war ended.

    Such an explanation does not provide justification for the Obama spending spree. Is that why you overlooked the obvious?

    America's post war economic dominance had a lot to do with the industrial infrastructure put in place to fight the war and that Europe and much of Asia was in shambles.

    I would not give FDR's New Deal policies credit for America's post war economic boom.
    In fact most historians feel that without World War II, the great depression would have continued in spite of the New Deal.
     
  14. Pitbull

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    The Democrats and most Republicans failed to complain about the out of control spending of George Bush.

    But many were aware and complained.

    The Obama answer to too much spending by Bush is even more spending.
    Doesn't take a genius to realize that is not going to "fix" it.

    Let's spend our way out of debt.
    Let's drink our way to sobriety.
     
  15. justasimpleguy

    justasimpleguy Admired Member

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    The Dems failed to complain about out of control spending? LOLOLOL. You mean when the medicare expansion and tax cuts passed through reconciliation with no Dem support right? Just because you didn't hear about doesn't mean people weren't flipping out.
     
  16. TomCat84

    TomCat84 Expert Member

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    Indeed, so what did the country do to pay off the war debt? Taxes were raised. Do you see that now? No.
     
  17. TomCat84

    TomCat84 Expert Member

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    Not to mention that Medicare expansion was ahcieved because the Republican leadership in the House held voting open for far beyond the normal 2 hour limit. If I recall correctly, it passed with somewhere around a 2vote margin.
     
  18. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Cherished Member

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    This really shows your youth and inexperience in understanding Government spending.

    Please educate yourself -- I recommend studying the issues Japan went through during their recent extended recession and how its mistakes on spending made the problem even worse. I'm sure their are multiple MBA case studies around for you to review.

    Also, it was the Republicans yelling and screaming back in 1993 that "You are going to drive us into a deeper recession by raising taxes"... yet, the democrats:

    - Did raise taxes, and
    - turned a budget deficit into a budget surplus, and
    - the country enjoyed many years of economic growth.

    Now the Republicans are yelling and screaming again.

    I just want to say to those folks... "shut up and sit down -- we know what we are doing, we have to do it *every* time a Republican gets out of office."
     
  19. D_Fortumus Wigglesack

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    The graph wasn't what I was referring to. I was referring to. I was referring to the graph further down. And the only "infrastructure" WWII created was the military-industrial complex that still exists today; it didn't create all the roads, the schools, social security, and everything else responsible for putting us at the head of the world afterwards. The war is definitely what ended the depression, but it's not what made the US a world power.

    oh, and know what a war is, in terms of economics? A spending spree.
     
  20. justasimpleguy

    justasimpleguy Admired Member

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    This thread is just silly.

    So, we have 2 to 4 wars (depending on who is counting) being fought off the books with a halfway privatized military. Crumbling public schools and other infrastructure. Rising energy costs and increased property damage from climate change. And the largest financial meltdown and depression since the 1930s.

    Who is surprised that the debt is going to be a huge portion of GDP for awhile? Only idiots.
     
  21. D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III

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    Georges spending is going be pennies compared to Obama. Bush was good for about 6+ billion. Obama is on pace to put up 30+ billion in half the time.
     
  22. Trinity

    Trinity Banned

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    Your own link says:
    at the end of Bush's term debt was 78% of GDP not 80% - you must use the same advisors and accountants as Obama. :rolleyes:

    Clinton inherited debt at 68% of GDP and decreased it to 58% in 8 years.

    Obama can't get his projections right in his budgets, is off by 1.2 Trillion dollars and increases the debt ratio to GDP to 90% of GDP -if we are lucky.

    Obama is going in the wrong direction. His budgets tell the story.

    Obama pledged to cut the deficit in half by 2013 but his deficits keep exploding:

    CBO

    Obama can't even get in the right direction as President Clinton in ten years as opposed to Clinton's eight.
     
  23. midlifebear

    midlifebear Expert Member

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    Well, I think we should check in on this in 2013 and see how things are doing. :moon:
     
  24. TomCat84

    TomCat84 Expert Member

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    I'm going to disagree with you here, at least with the part at the very end. One could argue that the war did indeed vault the US into super power status. The rest of the world was in shambles, while the US was relatively unscathed, both in terms on infrastructure and deaths (yes there were a lot, but nowhere near those suffered by the Soviets, France, and Britain.) That, coupled with the huge military the US had built up (including atomic weapons), instantly made us the only super power. We had arguably been a world power since the end of the Spanish American War, and the most powerful country in the world following WWI, but the US public and politicans never showed much of an appetite to act the part.
     
  25. B_talltpaguy

    B_talltpaguy Banned

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    Please define "most" in this context, because something tells me you're being liberal with your definition of the word, if not flat out incorrect.


    I randomly clicked on Google's search results for (did WWII end the great depression) and got this...

    http://www.amatecon.com/gd/gdcandc.html
     
    #25 B_talltpaguy, Mar 30, 2010
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2010
  26. Pitbull

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    They were able to stop spending on the war.
    That is like having more money when the kids graduate college and move out

    Nice try.
    But you are on the wrong side of this one.
    The government spending in the past year and a half does not even rise to the level of poorly thought out. Nobody thought and hardly anyone even read the legislation.
    Many economists are saying the trillion dollar stimulus actually has slowed the economy.
    And if you care to - look it up yourself and educate yourself.
    And while you are at it - take your own advice and sit down and shut up.

    Thanks for agreeing that WWII ended the depression. (Mikeyh9in and TallPaGuy disagree with both of us on that)
    (And note to TallPaGuy - one citation from Google does not prove anything. But if you continued on the list of hits you can find someone who disagrees with you and the link you provided)

    World power, superpower - we could argue all day about that.
    I would contend that it was actually the Civil War that made the US a world power - though it wasn't until WWI that the European powers had real proof. And the Atomic Bomb put the US in a class by itself until others caught up.

    And a war is a spending spree.
    Sometimes necessary if your survival is at stake.
    Like buying a high priced parachute when the plane is nose diving.

    But entering a war you do not have to - Iraq is a good example - can wreck havoc on the economy.
    Endless warfare have brought down many kingdoms.
    Read "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu. He warned us.

    And many of those roads. Not a New Deal project.
    http://www.fhwa.dot.gov/interstate/homepage.cfm

    :eek: Me Liberal. Only with seasoning on my food.
     
  27. Pitbull

    Gold Member

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    Real leaders do not make excuses for their failures.
     
  28. mikeyh9in

    mikeyh9in Cherished Member

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    You *are* so close to connecting the dots it's amazing. You need to understand that Government budgeting and spending is vastly different than your home budget and spending -- trying to equate the two is nonsense. During a recession (or depression), Governments take in greatly reduced tax income, while needing to expend more for services. If they contracted spending during these times, the economy would worsen.

    So, just as you pointed out, the known (and proven) way of of dealing with recessions, is through deficit financing. World War II was a very large Government *spending* program.

    You can argue that it is too much, but that is where I pointed to you to review the way Japan dealt with their severe recession in the 90's -- they did do deficit financing with large government spending... the problem was they did not do enough at key points and ended up making their recession last a very long time.

    -mike
     
  29. 43698

    43698 Guest

    I think they both suck W and O that is. I am not partisan to either party they are both the same devil.
     
  30. Pitbull

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    And you are coming close to connecting the dots too.

    There are more ways of dealing with a recession than deficit financing.
    There are other ways of stimulating the economy than spending money.
    And what they are spending on.
    How they are spending it.
    And the planning that goes into it.
    I probably spent more time before I purchased my last laptop researching and shopping around than most senators and congressional representatives spent before voting on the trillion dollar programs that are coming before them with frightening regularity.
    They do have options.
    But Republican or Democrat the end result seems to be benefit for special interests.

    The regulations and taxes have a lot to do with the economy and too much regulation and taxes is an obstruction to economic growth.

    One of the big problems is not spending during the recession but lack of saving by the government during economic good times.
    They almost always are running big deficits (and yes I am aware of the few years of surplus during the 90's).
    And when spending is not a one time expenditure, like the interstate highway system during the 50's, but an ever growing entitlement like social security, medicare or prescription drug benefit it causes problems when the bills start to come due and the money was spent long ago.

    Government spending is different than home finance which is different than business finance. But we would be much better off if government were more like home finance or business finance.
    Our elected leaders are ignorant in a lot of things and they have proved that economics is one of those things.
     
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