Censorship, or sheer stupidity?

B_big dirigible

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High school principal must be one of the worst jobs in the world. You get stuck with an entire building full of kids who are all at that dismal age at which they think that simply saying something which discomfits someone else (for whatever reason, good or bad) is a great accomplishment. But of course it isn't. "...And in 11th grade I said a word on stage which the principal didn't want me to say" isn't exactly going to set any college admissions office on fire. On the other side, the principal is assailed by parents who manage to bitch about absolutely everything, teachers who are all members of some of the country's most intractable unions, and a school committee which, if typical, is entirely made up of people with their own axes to grind.

So I can see this poor putz, who may have already put his own cookies in the vise just to let them do that play in the first place, being grilled by the school committee. The committee is his boss - not a gaggle of high school girls, not the local newspaper, and not the liberal vanguard at LPSG. If the committee thinks he screwed up, he's out on his ass. The committee will think he screwed up if some parent starts whining. And it's pretty certain that some parent will - they just about always do. And out he goes. That's a pretty high price to pay just so some kid can feel all boy-wonder for standing up and saying "vagina" on stage. Well, get the flags out!

So, if a price is going to be paid, it's the principal who's going to pay it. Everyone else is pretty safe. Nobody's going to can the drama teacher, for fear that the entire faculty will go on strike. The school committee won't have to weather the storm until the next elections, by which time this crisis will have been eclipsed by some other silly-ass thing. The girls, meanwhile, will graduate on time. In a few years perhaps some of them will find themselves answerable to other school committees. And at that time, the lesson that they might have learned from this incident might serve them well.

Though I doubt it.
 

Spamalot

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As far as I'm concerned, this is not a big deal. It's only gotten any attention because of the "feminism" aspect (teenage girls believing that their opinions hold more weight than they actually do just because they are female). The context with which the word was used was pushing it. You can tell just by the way it is phrased in the article - they all said it simultaneously with accentuation. Immediately, one can tell that they were trying to be cutesy and witty. Having been fairly involved in acting in high school, I absolutely despised this steriotypical teenage girl routine of trying to be funny but coming off as the whining little brat that you really are. They only did it to stir up controversy from lack of a better idea. I was nearly thrown out of school because I had something to say that they didn't want to hear. Everyone with half a brain (including many parents) backed me up, and I got to stay. These girls are trying to be controversial over nothing.

Normally, if something like this happened I would blame the school. However, under these circumstances it is very clear that these girls got what they deserved. Instead of simply accepting that this was just a little local story of scheming teenage girls, it gets completely blown out of proportion and people start talk of repression is society, totalitarianism, government power, and so on and so forth. It's just ridiculous to think that this story has any connection to any of the said subjects.
 

rawbone8

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My dicking around is done, for now.

BigDirigible, you make some excellent points.

In the interest of fairness, here is the message posted at the school's website. It does give a more nuanced perspective to the controversy. Particularly the notion that people know what to expect generally when they bring younger kids to a typical school production, but don't have a choice to opt out if the play excerpt with "mature" content is not advertised as such upfront.
March 6, 2007

Dear John Jay Community Members:

I appreciate the concerns expressed by students and parents over the monologue issue that occurred last Friday night at the “Open Mic Night.”

John Jay High School recognizes and respects student freedom of expression in the context of the school setting. That right, however, is not unfettered, particularly when an activity or event is open to the general school community where it is expected that young children may be in attendance. The challenge is to balance the rights of student speakers and the sensitivities of the community. The School’s response to that challenge was to pre-audition the students before several faculty members for the “Open Mic Night” and to determine the suitability of the intended presentations for the audience. In many cases, younger siblings, often elementary age, attend these types of events. This event was also being videotaped for the local cable television channel.

When a student is told by faculty members not to present specified material because of the composition of the audience and they agree to do so, it is expected that the commitment will be honored and the directive will be followed. When a student chooses not to follow the directive, consequences follow. The students did not receive consequences because of the content of the presentation.

There is a clear difference between putting on a production of a play such as “The Vagina Monologues” and an open performance at the microphone of an excerpt from the play before unsuspecting parents and their children. In the first case, the community would have been aware of the nature of the production and could have made an educated decision to attend or not to attend based upon that knowledge. In the case of the “Open Mic Night,” the community was invited with the expectation that the pieces presented would be appropriate for the general community, including younger children. Parents and community members did not have the ability to make an educated decision about the appropriateness of the content of the presentations for younger children.

There is also a clear difference between what is read and discussed in the classroom and what is presented in an activity open to the entire community. Our judgment was guided by the forum, the audience and the students’ commitment. Our decision was made in a considered, careful and thoughtful manner.

Sincerely,
Rich Leprine,
Principal JJHS

 

DC_DEEP

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bigdirigible and rawbone8, please tell me this: would it have been better for the principal to say "there may be young children and repressed parents in the audience. You may participate in open mic night, but you may not perform any portion of 'The Vagina Monologues'. The material is possibly not suitable for a general audience."

Or would it have been better for him to say "do what you want for open mic night, just don't use the word, 'vagina'."
 

Lex

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As a former school admin I must say that if the student was told, in advance, that the material was not okay for that audience and within that context, then the student was in the wrong.

Censorship in schools is a VERY dicey issue. I have an entire school law textbook that deals with it.
 

B_largelarry

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School administrators are always doing incredibly stupid things. That's nothing new. The system is broken, but the power for certain labor unions and various special interest groups prevent it from being ripped apart and fixed.
 

DC_DEEP

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School administrators are always doing incredibly stupid things. That's nothing new. The system is broken, but the power for certain labor unions and various special interest groups prevent it from being ripped apart and fixed.
You must not have ever worked in the education field.

School administrators, generally, do as they are told by school boards. School boards are not protected by, nor controlled by, labor unions.

Lex, my main issue is not that the fiat was defied by the girls, nor that they were punished for defying that fiat; it's that the fiat was issued in the first place.
 

rubberwilli

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Don't you know we're supposed to use words like "wee-wee" to describe our private parts? Doesn't sound nearly as indecent as "vagina". What a dirty word.

This is correct. Why even Oprah, goddess of all things womanly and televisiony will only say "va-jay-jay" while sweeping her hands in a circular motion 5 inches from her mid-section.

I can see both sides of this arguement. Having started on the road to High School Choir Teacher before I bailed out, this is exactly the reason I'm not teaching today folks. Teachers are the babysitters of our communities and teaching is one of the lowest priorities of a community until somone gets upset then there's holy hell to pay for the offending individual(s).

I'm hoping that something good will come out of this such as a community or even a school production of the Vagina Monologues. Eve Ensler's army is going to be all up in this until there is a production in this community I assure you. (Isn't Valentines day the preferred "V-day" for most productions?)
 

rawbone8

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My partner pointed this out to me, it was in today's Washington Post. I just simply copied and pasted the column. What the fuck were these so-called school administrators thinking? Keep in mind, this is high school honors students, not middle or elementary school...

DC, why did you qualify your opening remarks (concerning age appropriateness) if it is not an issue? Words are just words and vagina or nipple or uterus or testicle or anus are fine by me for use in a dramatic reading. My two year old uses the words vagina and penis, rather than cutsey terms. But I think it is any parent's right to decide for themselves whether they attend this particular school performance with their younger kids. Parents couldn't make an informed decision in this case.

It seems the young women there consented to the school's daft edict, then broke their word.
 

fortiesfun

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So, if a price is going to be paid, it's the principal who's going to pay it. Everyone else is pretty safe. Nobody's going to can the drama teacher, for fear that the entire faculty will go on strike.
Speaking of sophistry, this entire posting is a rhetorical argument with little relationship to reality, but these sentences strike me as bizarre. Drama teachers are routinely fired for this kind of stuff, and the faculty never goes on strike. Pretending like the poor principal is going to pay the price is ridiculous. His is as close to a free hand in censorship as can be found in current American society.

In the interest of fairness, here is the message posted at the school's website. It does give a more nuanced perspective to the controversy. Particularly the notion that people know what to expect generally when they bring younger kids to a typical school production, but don't have a choice to opt out if the play excerpt with "mature" content is not advertised as such upfront.
I appreciate seeing this, but I cannot agree that it is nuanced. It simply repeats the same twisted argument that standing up to arbitrary censorship is wrong, while trying hard to keep the arbitrary action itself out of the discussion. In effect, the school is arguing the "unchallengeable" standard for an "open mike" night is appropriateness for a pre-school audience, but the expectation that everything produced by a school will be suitable for small children is flawed. Shouldn't the responsibility fall the other way? Shouldn't parents have to determine that material is appropriate for small children before bringing them? If you advertised a children's theatre production and then produced "Vagina Monologues" you might be exceeding the bounds, but the belief that the whole world should be kept safe for second grade sensibilities is inately restrictive.

Censorship in schools is a VERY dicey issue. I have an entire school law textbook that deals with it.
Of course, you are right Lex, but all that is legally defensible is still not morally right. In this case, it seems clear that the reason for the censorship was primarily to prevent parents of small children from being offended, as if they were the primary parties. It may be legal, but it is a hell of a poor education.

Lex, my main issue is not that the fiat was defied by the girls, nor that they were punished for defying that fiat; it's that the fiat was issued in the first place.
Exactly right. The principal, according to his own standards, should have posted that there was mature content and that it was not appropriate for small children at the door, not forced the girls to make the production meet this threshold. On "closed mike" the audience has a right to expect that it will all be cleaned up in advance, but in this case he is putting the cart before the horse.
 

DC_DEEP

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From the time a child is old enough to have a need to refer to any body part, he should be taught the name of that body part. If there are parents out there who can't deal with that, then perhaps they should not be parents. I'm tired of educators who can't do their jobs, because they are too busy walking on eggshells to avoid bruising the tender sensibilities of a few parents in the school district who want to perpetuate their own emotional scarring by passing it along to their own children.
 

Shelby

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Exactly right. The principal, according to his own standards, should have posted that there was mature content and that it was not appropriate for small children at the door, not forced the girls to make the production meet this threshold. On "closed mike" the audience has a right to expect that it will all be cleaned up in advance, but in this case he is putting the cart before the horse.

So do you propose no standards? Or just your own?

I'm pretty sure I could come up with examples of content you (or someone) would deem inappropriate and others would not.
 

fortiesfun

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So do you propose no standards? Or just your own?

I'm pretty sure I could come up with examples of content you (or someone) would deem inappropriate and others would not.
There is a vast difference between no standards, and "suitable for second graders." Especially on an open mike night, including a major work of contemporary literature with thousands of performances is far from using only my own standard. On the other hand, it seems to me that the principal is quite literally using his own personal standard.
 

DC_DEEP

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Hmm, given the choice between caving in to the pressure to keep your children ignorant and teach them that penis and vagina are dirty words, or do everything possible to teach your children that penis and vagina are not dirty words...

Easy choice. Cave in. It helps to perpetuate the "sex is bad, sex is dirty" concept.
 

ssnead

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I can't believe that anyone would possibly defend the actions of the school here. I know that for myself, I find it simply intolerable when anyone tries to prevent me from ramming any images I happen to find acceptable into their little sons' and daughters' minds, regardless of their age. When I was a teacher, I amused myself on a daily basis by subjecting small children to all manner of images and language that I assumed some uptight parents might have a problem with, secure in the knowledge that the Constitution protected me from their provincial beliefs. I kept the business card of an ACLU attorney at the ready in my breast pocket, too. Let me tell you - when challenged, just whipping that card out and waving it in the face of the lackey administrator was enough to get me sent on my merry way, and the parent sent home fuming. Immediately.


Honestly, I don't know why parents send their kids to school at all, if they don't want their minds opened up. And believe you me, that's exactly what I did to them, every chance I got.