Cheaters/abusers

[deedsforfun]

You cant just walk up to women and ask, "Hey.......

 

[HiddenLacey]

AAAAwriiight!

I should get her to join. But dont know if I want some of the leg humpers
PM raping her all day.

She'd think it was odd that I was on here. I found this site one day looking for info on her upcoming histo. Got intrigued with the womens opinions and kept reading. Next thing you know, I was registered.
I really like reading honest opinions of women and how they feel about things.

When they can be.

Haha! Yeah I came to the forum because it was mentioned somewhere else, intentionally thinking OMG will you look at that!!! Then I started reading the threads and I really liked it. Most of the people are really nice and everyone gets to share their opinion. I will always answer someone's post if I can. It might not be what people want to hear, but I will be honest. I mean why not if anyone on here really knew me then they would not know it was me on here. My boyfriend does not know I'm on here either. I'm not really sure how he would feel about it. But I have made sure to post that I have a boyfriend. Everyone who has PM'ed me, I've immediately said I have a boyfriend I'm not interested in anything but conversation. I like reading what the other women say and what the guys think about it.

And no you can't walk up to a woman and do that, anymore than I could walk up to a man and say "hey...."

 

[Keleios]

I really didn't want to get involved in this specific topic because I really don't even want to think about something like a child being molested (or any of the other situations that had been mentioned) but I really think foster care would only make things worse. What I understood from that story is that the guy is no longer around. Hopefully this is the end of his 'reign of terror' -or so to say- But if anything I'd like to think that a family member would take care of the kids for the time being, while the mother tries to get herself together. If that could be done. Foster homes are notorious for being dangerous places.

If you read Mademoiselle Rouge's post, the daughter of the woman she's talking about had her arm broken by the first guy then was abused by the second guy. Not 100% certain, the involvement of different people is a little unclear but that's how I understood it.

I wouldn't say that removing a child from the Mother should be a first response but goddamn, how many chances does someone need to be given before they'll do something? That timeline covers THIRTEEN YEARS of the child's life.
Is it right to leave a child in that kind of situation, where they're substantially at risk, based on the hope that the Mother will see the error of her choices in partners and get the fuck out of the relationship?

Sure, I know that foster homes can be hideous places and social services can mess things up but still, the child should be the priority and if the Mother can't live up to her responsibility and everyone else takes the view that someone should do something but it's not my place, it's not up to me...
Ugh.

I feel so strongly about this, not only as a Mother myself but I work with kids who have been seriously affected by abuse and it's heart-rending to learn about their situations and how they're so often left in the care of people they least should be with. Even when they're fostered or moved into care homes, I still have to deal with so called "parents" or relatives who try to force contact. It's absolutely sickening, the lengths they'll go to.

 

[WriterGirl]

More like fucking disgusting.
I have so much sympathy for people forced into a state where their free will and choice are beaten into submission through systematic abuse and I can understand the mentality of a victimised woman who remains faithful and attached to her abuser through misguided love or fear.

But I simply cannot fucking understand or condone a Mother allowing that kind of shit to happen to her children.
If you're without children, the only thing you're responsible for is yourself. Although that responsibility may be diminished through mental or physical manipulation and abuse, it's not something that's going to affect other people unless your family or friends are aware of it.
I dunno, I could put up with an awful lot, tolerate a lot of things perhaps if it was just me but if anyone ever laid a finger on my child with intent to harm, I would make them regret it. I abhor violence but that's one of the very few things which would incite me to it.

Controversial maybe but I'd say in the case of the above, I'd rather see a child removed completely from that situation and placed into foster care than left with a Mother incapable of offering protection.

I completely agree with you about a parent's (I have seen men as well as women who were abused when I worked in the ER) responsibility being completely different from a single person in an abusive situation. Any abuse is wrong and not to be tolerated, and it is frustrating to hear "explanations" as justification for the behavior from victims and abusers. It is worse trying to talk the victims into seeking help, when they are so afraid and brainwashed - and it is almost unbearable when children are involved. Although there are problems within the foster care system, there are also good families who take in foster children - it is heartbreaking to think that that child's odds for a better quality of life could be better anywhere else other than with her mother.

Going back to the OP, my personal view is that as a part of a couple who chooses to be in an exclusive/committed relationship, I would not be tolerant of cheating. I don't want to convince a guy to be with me. Life is too short to devote time to a man who is not as committed to a relationship with me as I am to him. We both deserve the opportunity to find happiness with someone else if that is the case. I would feel even more strongly about this if I was married - I don't see the point of marriage otherwise.

However, if I was married with children, it becomes a much more complex equation. I can honestly say I might give my husband another (one) chance if he cheated. I would have to know that it was one time, that he expresses true remorse, that he actually still wants to be with me, that he is committed to the work involved in trying to rebuild our relationship, that he places the highest importance on our family as a unit. I think I would have to see all of these things as a prerequisite to committing with him in the best interests of my children. I would not be open to repeatedly taking him back.

 

[Drifterwood]

I've always felt this way about taking someone back that cheated on you: that person believes you are worth losing.

The risk of losing you was something that did not deter them from pursuing 20 seconds of orgasm.

Why be with someone that has demonstrated that you are worth losing?

Some people don't think physical sex is that much of a big deal, and they certainly wouldn't use it as a blackmail type tool to keep someone in a relationship.

I think it's more important to stay with someone because you want to rather than being constrained to do so.

 

[Keleios]

Some people don't think physical sex is that much of a big deal, and they certainly wouldn't use it as a blackmail type tool to keep someone in a relationship.

That works if you have a relationship where both people think the same way.
Or as an excuse.
If you have two people in a relationship, one of whom equates sex with love and desires monogamy whilst the other equates sex with mainly physical pleasure and physical companionship, it can lead to a situation where someone has to compromise to keep what they want. There can still be love and plenty of it but if that compromise is made with empty words, trouble can occur when their strength is tested.

If boundaries or limits aren't set, it makes it rather easy for people to go beyond them and once that happens, whose fault is it?
I'd say that if people are honest from the outset about their views on sex, monogamy/commitment and the relationship they want/plan to have, there's a greater chance of preventing problems in the future.

I think it's more important to stay with someone because you want to rather than being constrained to do so.

I very much agree with that but sometimes people unconsciously/consciously decide not to consider the consequences of their actions, especially where cheating is concerned. I guess it depends on your viewpoint and if you take someone telling you "If you cheat, we're finished" as an unacceptable ultimatum or a deterrent.

I had a friend once tell me about a conversation she had with her boyfriend in which she told him "If you loved me, you wouldn't cheat on me" to which he replied "It's because I love you that I would." Interesting what that implies about love and it's meaning to different people.

 

[Drifterwood]

That works if you have a relationship where both people think the same way.
Or as an excuse.
If you have two people in a relationship, one of whom equates sex with love and desires monogamy whilst the other equates sex with mainly physical pleasure and physical companionship, it can lead to a situation where someone has to compromise to keep what they want. There can still be love and plenty of it but if that compromise is made with empty words, trouble can occur when their strength is tested.

If boundaries or limits aren't set, it makes it rather easy for people to go beyond them and once that happens, whose fault is it?
I'd say that if people are honest from the outset about their views on sex, monogamy/commitment and the relationship they want/plan to have, there's a greater chance of preventing problems in the future.



I very much agree with that but sometimes people unconsciously/consciously decide not to consider the consequences of their actions, especially where cheating is concerned. I guess it depends on your viewpoint and if you take someone telling you "If you cheat, we're finished" as an unacceptable ultimatum or a deterrent.

I had a friend once tell me about a conversation she had with her boyfriend in which she told him "If you loved me, you wouldn't cheat on me" to which he replied "It's because I love you that I would." Interesting what that implies about love and it's meaning to different people.

I don't think that most people are by nature sexually monogamous, and in practice more that a third aren't. So why we have this social and cultural construct that makes people who aren't, put in the same bracket as abusers is beyond me.

I think that people who wish to demand sexual monogamy, should be asking themselves why, rather than having it as an expectation that it is acceptable to impose on others and then to vilify them when they fail.

Then there is this whole thing that when men stray it is because they are bastards and when women do, it is because their man has let them down in some way. I don't like double standards.

If you look at the "stats" over 33% are not sexually monogamous in a contracted relationship, whereas only 3 to 10% of kids don't have the father they think. This suggests to me that we find genetic monogamy far more convenient or natural than sexual monogamy.

If you want sexual monogamy from a partner, then yes, you should make that clear from the outset. But make sure you can live up yourself to the expectations you perhaps enforce on others.

 

[Keleios]

I don't think that most people are by nature sexually monogamous, and in practice more that a third aren't. So why we have this social and cultural construct that makes people who aren't, put in the same bracket as abusers is beyond me.

I personally don't put cheaters in the same class as abusers. Cheating can be a mistake, it can be for many reasons and it can be not cheating if both people share the same views on not being monogamous and if they don't, it can be forgiven depending on the circumstances.

Abuse is hideous in all instances and is never forgivable.

I think that people who wish to demand sexual monogamy, should be asking themselves why, rather than having it as an expectation that it is acceptable to impose on others and then to vilify them when they fail.

Impose? No, I don't think it's acceptable to impose anything on someone else. I personally have views and opinions on relationships but they're mine and anyone is free to disagree or hold differing. I don't think less of anyone for thinking differently and if someone wants to have an open relationship, that's fine! Not everything suits everyone so stick to what and those who suit you and there won't be issues.
With regard to expectations, I think it's fair to expect the same from others as I offer myself. If I am loyal, committed and in a monogamous relationship, I would expect my partner to be so too. If they didn't feel comfortable with any of that, fair enough, we won't be partners and then there's no problem.

Then there is this whole thing that when men stray it is because they are bastards and when women do, it is because their man has let them down in some way. I don't like double standards.

I don't like double standards either, if anyone strays when they've given the impression that they're happy or want to be in a monogamous relationship then have changed their mind, they are a bastard whether they're female or male. It actually makes me laugh that any woman would use "he let me down so I fucked around" as an excuse, it's not only pathetic it's also extremely sad.
Basically I don't like it when people hurt each other because it's really fucking easy not to hurt people.
If everyone was as open minded as you and felt the same way as you, it'd be great and there'd be a lot less stress, drama and emotional pain. But people aren't the same, for whatever reasons.
Maybe it's just me but I see not agreeing to be in a monogamous relationship if it doesn't suit you or breaking up if you really want to sleep with people as really simple solutions to cheating. You can't cheat on someone if you're not in a relationship with them.
But yeah, can be a complex issue. Not as easy as all that.

If you look at the "stats" over 33% are not sexually monogamous in a contracted relationship, whereas only 3 to 10% of kids don't have the father they think. This suggests to me that we find genetic monogamy far more convenient or natural than sexual monogamy.

From a traditional family point of view, yes. Also for economic reasons and tax breaks. I'm not sure when governments will offer the same financial benefits or recognise polyamorous relationships in the same way but at some point in the future, who knows.
I'm a traditionalist, not only for the way I was raised but also for knowing how I feel about or am affected by certain things. Again, that's me personally, it won't suit everyone and again, I'm fine with that. I don't think someone is automatically a shit because they'd rather have multiple partners whilst I'd rather have one.

If you want sexual monogamy from a partner, then yes, you should make that clear from the outset. But make sure you can live up yourself to the expectations you perhaps enforce on others.

I'm clear about what I want and I expect any partner I have to be clear about what they want. I know damn well that I won't cheat but that it would take time and trust to prove that to someone else. Good, I like time, trust and people who don't believe something without proof.
You use quite strong language, "enforce" and "impose"... I'm not a zealot, I don't go around beating people with placards because they feel/believe differently to me. Tolerance, understanding and acceptance are all beautiful things. I appreciate and value those qualities in people greatly.
What I don't tolerate, understand or accept are those who lie, deceive and abuse trust for purposes of self gratification or when someone acts in a way that they know will cause hurt to another person.

 

[Drifterwood]

I wasn't directing my comments to you personally Keleios, I am talking very generally.

I am just saying that there is an unpublished but broadly accepted handbooks on the rules of engagement for relationships and this doesn't necessarily work. It is like, IMO, any top down system. It may look nice, but it won't necessarily, or ever, fit the people that you try to fit into it.

If non sexual monagamy is a deal breaker then fine, but it doesn't have to be and it doesn't even have to be discussed when one party is happy to have one and the other isn't.

 

[EboniGoddess]

i've taken back men because I feel desperate at time. My freshman year of college.....i'd rather not even get into that

 

[helgaleena]

i've taken back men because I feel desperate at time. My freshman year of college.....i'd rather not even get into that

Glad you have quit that, R. Good sex might be worth a little hassle, but bad sex or violence? Never.

 

[big_gp35]

Been there recently, after 10 years of marriage and a beautiful child. Financially things had become difficult while transitioning into a new career. We had less money, and even less time together. It had become one of those situations where we were more like roommates than husband and wife. I can admit this much.

Although our lack of time together was her reason, I never cheated. I have opportunities on a regular basis just as anyone else in this life does. It has been 7 difficult months and I am still unsure if I can live with the infidelity even though she has turned over a new leaf and started going to church, going out of her way to do things for me, telling me constantly how much she loves me and still apologises regularly out of the blue.

The new job I have since transitioned into has almost tripled my income that I was making as a nurse. She knew the money would come, and I resent that she could not stay true to me during the most difficult times since we've been married. I sometimes wonder if its about the money and security.

My new job requires frequent travel (alot of time apart) to the Virgin Islands, Guam, and Hawaii as well as all over the US. I stay at resorts with people on vacation. I have more opportunities to meet women than ever before yet I love my family and really don't want to break it up. I've called it quits twice now, but the pain is unbearable and we eventually talk through things.

She is remorseful, I guess I just need to man up and get over it, or get on with my life and that is the cross roads I'm at.

I'm actually in St Croix as I type this in a beautiful Bungalow on the beach with an extraordinary view. Life should be great!

 

[Drifterwood]

Although our lack of time together was her reason,

I am not so sure, but this is the Women's section so perhaps one of the Ladies would like to comment.

What I will say is that most often, this type of situation is the problem of the cheater, not the cheated. They have to deal with their behaviour and who they are.

A lot of the Ladies here have been saying that when a man cheats on them it is about them and their relationship. I don't think so.

 

[big_gp35]

It's a difficult situation regardless of sex, however I think for the male it becomes more of an ego thing. We like to think we are the King of our own universe. When something like this happens it can be even more devastating to our psyche. I know there are differences between men and women, but we are all sexual and emotional creatures. The amount varies indivually and not so much as a sex.

One of the things I love about this sight is that there is such a deep intuition about the sexual nature of humans. We may not agree with everyone, and things can come across as personal at times. However, with an open mind, I have really learned Alot, about ALOT!!

 

[HiddenLacey]

The problem I find in general with people cheating is that means there is something wrong with the relantionship that either has not been brought to the surface or it's been ignored. Some people say it's just about the sex, but if that's the case why not get sex from the person your with? Myself, I will never understand it regardless of the reason.

 

[freyasworld]

I have been cheated on............that ended in divorce. Spouses cheat because of problems in their relationship, something is missing, passion has died, partners feel lonely, he/she find someone who treats them better or who appreciates them more.

Cheaters are not happy in their relationship so they look for elusive happiness elsewhere, there are 3 factors or emotional needs:.... Sexual desire, Love, and Attachment. Most people require all three to have a happy relationship, some will settle for only 1.

As we age then the requirement to have all 3 deminishes, we see couples in the 70's who have been married 50+ years, does she find him sexually desireable....like hell, does she love him......no way, 50 years of shit she's had to put up with, but there is attachment.

But if one party has all three and the spouse/partner cheats them that is a betrayal of their trust and faith they had in them.

Well I hope this explains it....

Oh and as a footnote, men that cheat should be castrated! women who cheat, then it's their partners fault for not paying them enough attention or making sure their needs are met and taken care of.

 

[invisibleman]

Oh and as a footnote, men that cheat should be castrated! women who cheat, then it's their partners fault for not paying them enough attention or making sure their needs are met and taken care of.:wink:

Ohhh no, no, no, no, no, no..NO!!!!

Cheating women aren't getting off tariff-free. All Hester Prynnes should get their stones thrown at them while they are in glass houses. And then be made to get their A's tattooed on their foreheads.

 

[stallone22cm]

I have been cheated on............that ended in divorce. Spouses cheat because of problems in their relationship, something is missing, passion has died, partners feel lonely, he/she find someone who treats them better or who appreciates them more.

Cheaters are not happy in their relationship so they look for elusive happiness elsewhere, there are 3 factors or emotional needs:.... Sexual desire, Love, and Attachment. Most people require all three to have a happy relationship, some will settle for only 1.

As we age then the requirement to have all 3 deminishes, we see couples in the 70's who have been married 50+ years, does she find him sexually desireable....like hell, does she love him......no way, 50 years of shit she's had to put up with, but there is attachment.

But if one party has all three and the spouse/partner cheats them that is a betrayal of their trust and faith they had in them.

Well I hope this explains it....

Oh and as a footnote, men that cheat should be castrated! women who cheat, then it's their partners fault for not paying them enough attention or making sure their needs are met and taken care of.

its nice to know a intellegnet and confident ...size queen....kiss...

 

[B_FatMushroomHead]

Freyasworld, where do you manage to find such a holier than thou self righteous sense of entitlement?

Jesus.

 

[blutrane]

Oh and as a footnote, men that cheat should be castrated! women who cheat, then it's their partners fault for not paying them enough attention or making sure their needs are met and taken care of.

I am going to assume that this is tongue and cheek.

Also, in general, I cannot abide by the cynicism of your above statement. No disrespect, but I am one one of those people who can cherish a woman forever (or at least I believe it's possible). But who knows, I'm pretty young, so maybe I have yet to be really jaded. I've been hurt VERY badly before, and have a lot of trust issues concerning women, but I haven't lost my hopeless romanticism just yet. I sure as hell hope I don't.