Cheney Admits to War Crime

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Phil Ayesho, Dec 18, 2008.

  1. Phil Ayesho

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    I can't actually believe he said it... out loud... admitted that he discussed waterboarding and personally approved its use.

    The Untied States HUNG Japanese interrogators who employed waterboarding.

    Convicted them and sentenced them to death... for the very thing that Cheney ordered.

    And just where the fuck does it say in the Constitution that the Vice President has THAT kind of authority?
     
  2. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Are you kidding?

    Let me share a story with you, Phil. A [close friend] of mine works for the DOD - anti-terror unit. Their small unit, located in the Midwest, has apprehended hundreds of terror cells in the last 7 years. Their best means of intelligence - 'pulling trash.' When they have a suspect, they pull the trash on garbage night and replace the trash with a dummy bag of trash.

    What do they find? Intricate drawings of explosives, phone numbers of financiers, bank statements, plans, names, about everything. Ya know how old these people are? Between 18 and 23. Kids. Goddamn kids.

    One kid, when verbally threatened with life in jail literally shit and pissed his pants and gave up his entire cell.

    What if he hadn't been subjected to an interrogation, and had Robert Shapiro there keeping him quiet? What would his cell have done...bombed Wrigley Field and killed 70,000 people?

    Ah, in the interests of national security some things happen that you don't want to hear about. Its probably better that way.

    I know libs don't want to hear that, but you don't protect national security with holiday cards. Sorry, politically correct doesn't work in this arena.
     
  3. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    I agree, Phil.
    We must hold our representatives to task when they break laws - there's no spinning it away from that fact.

    Although, I understand the Military Commissions Act basically pardons those involved in these crimes on a national level. Has anyone that's read/studied the act care to clarify?


    Fewer normative and more empirical, on topic statements would be appreciated. Thanks.
     
  4. Hellboy0

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    So does that mean 'by any means necessary' is ok? In that case, the US Legal system needs a major shake up...

    I don't have the same ability to argue this point as some of our members, but doesn't the comment 'politically correct doesn't work in this area' give undue license. I thought that was why we have checks and balances built into any of our security efforts... inhumane treatment of inhumane people is a bad thing.

    Find the third option.
     
  5. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    And how do you suggest that anyone provide that in this context SA?

    Unfortunately, we're not building chemical compounds in this thread. Your common sense would be appreciated.
     
  6. Flashy

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    I notice of course you did not mention that he was referring to the case of Khalid Sheik Muhammed.


    i don't like Cheney at all...but good for him...as he stated, we learned half of all we know about Al Qaieda operations from KSM.

    he was a known and vicious terrorist. I am glad he was waterboarded. It contributed to the capture and killings of scores and scores of terrorists, and provided us with incredible information on Al Qaieda that was invaluable.

    YouTube - War Criminal Dick Cheney admits authorizing water boarding suspects

    i completely support it....it was also used on other major Al Qaeida figures such as Al Nashiri, and Zabuydah
     
    #6 Flashy, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  7. vince

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    Star, aren't you're making a pretty big leap from "threatened with interrogation", to torture?
     
  8. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    And that is....?

    Negotiate with terrorists? Doesn't seem to work well.
     
  9. D_Marazion Analdouche

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    The MCA allows breaches of normal acts held up by the Geneva Convention and the War Crimes Act. I think waterboarding didn't make the list of "grave breaches" that would still be considered a war crime.

    So no, Cheney didn't admit to a war crime, the MCA changed the rules.
     
  10. B_Nick4444

    B_Nick4444 New Member

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    one nipponese soldier was punished for waterboarding a civilian; the punishment was fifteen years of hard labor

    the executions were of highly ranked nipponese officers; none of the charges specified waterboarding

    Philip R. Piccigallo, The Japanese on Trial : Allied War Crimes Operations in the East, 1945-1951, University of Texas press

    http://www.stephen-stratford.co.uk/imtfe.htm
     
    #10 B_Nick4444, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  11. Qua

    Qua
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    While I don't agree with it...I don't think letting it raise your blood pressure and yelling about it on a large penis site is gonna do much about it.



    I really wonder what the hell I'm doing here. Politics and porn make strange bedfellows.
     
  12. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Admittedly, I've been on a number of strictly politics-related sites, and this place is better. Altho, the other sites are more balanced and in most cases, far more conservative and the discussions are more tied to business, taxes and foreign policy....but the drama element here trumps all:biggrin1:. More personality here.



    Indeed.
     
  13. D_Fiona_Farvel

    D_Fiona_Farvel Account Disabled

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    Imo, once you figure out how, you'll be a much better poster. :fingersx:
    However, there are tons of resources available about torture, pro and con. Using verifiable statements - one's that are objective, a factuality, will help craft your argument.

    I have no issue with your position, well I do :), but, pro or con, empirical is the way to go.

    Explain further? Are you stating that waterboarding is not illegal in the United Stated due to the Military Commissions Act? Have you read it in its entirety? If so, please post an excerpt about "grave breaches" as I would like to read it.

    Also, does the act, as I understand, absolve Cheney, et al. of their actions prior to 2006?
     
  14. D_Tintagel_Demondong

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    This is a major breach by The Museum of Contemporary Art.

    You sure have many high-powered friends with lots of inside knowledge. How's your RNC friend doing? :wink:

    Did you read the OP? It was about accountability. It wasn't about the success or failure of water-boarding. It was about the fact that Cheney has gotten away with approving a crime punishable by death under US law.

    When I think of all the things that Bush & Co. have gotten away with in the last 8 years in the name of "American security" or "Executive Privilege", it infuriates me. There has been no accountability in the Casa Blanca anymore. I guess Obama can do whatever the fuck he wants.
     
  15. Phil Ayesho

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    Total utter, and unrelenting BULLSHIT, Star.
    Not true. not one word of it.

    Easy to SAY... but because there are no rules of evidence... no trials, and court, its all just crap people SAY to justify their actions.


    IN FACT, only a HANDFUL of terror cells have been "uncovered". Ony a few actually tried.
    ONLY 1 convicted, and that conviction was overturned and the 'terrorists' released- BY THE JUSTICE DEPARTMENT that convicted them.!


    EVERY SINGLE "TERROR PLOT" the Bush Admisnitration has CLAIMED was unconvered has turned out to be utter bullshit. Exaggeration and lies.

    The only REAL terror plot to REALLY be thwarted was the one thwarted by BRITISH intelligence and police, who DO NOT use torture, and who DID try their suspects in open court without denying them rights to attorneys.


    BULLSHIT.. the most famous and best supported case was the Detroit terror cell case.
    The "drawing" of supposedly US installations? examined by multiple experts they are UNIDENTIFIABLE as anything whatsoever. Scribbles that US 'terror experts" CLAIM to be something they are obviously not.



    ANd- BTW , it was the Detroit terror cell that Ashcroft LET GO because the Bush administration wanted to destroy the career of the republican prosecuter, MORE than they wanted terrorists in jail.

    WHY? Because he COMPLIED with a senate subpoena to testify in DEFENSE of the justice department, when he was TOLD to NOT comply ( which is a crime)

    Really? Some kid shit himself when he was threatened with JAIL!!!!- Sounds like a case hardened martyr to me.....
    Bullshit... terrorists do not shit themselves when threatende with JAIL- they are willing to blow themselves up fer Christ sake.

    Sounds tome like some really harsh techniques elicited the Kid to say ANYTHING fucking thing that they wanted to hear...


    THAT is why the police are not allowed to interrogate you in this fashion, Star... because it elicits false confessions from innocent people... and REAL criminals are not impressed and won't give up nothing.

    And its why BUSH and CHeney do NOT want lawyers to have access to detainees and why they have denied them due process.
    MOST detainees have NEVER been told what the evidence against them is, and those who HAVE gotten lawyers... Their LAWYERS are not allwoed to see the evidence agasint them...

    Know why? Because their ISN'T any fucking evidence against them, that's why.

    Some kid... I swear, you are such a tool of propaganda... wake UP.
    If there were evidence, there would be TRIALS... in real courts.... with evidence..
    y'know the kind of evidence that convicted the original WTC bombers?



    OOOHHH I am so frightened of the make believe enemy committing make believe attacks that I will gladly forego any ACTUAL evidence of guilt! We need no real proof! Someone SAID that somene told them that this might have happened...

    Please... not one serious plot discovered by US interrogation. Trust me, if they had, they would have Crowed about it it as loudly as they have about the FEW plots that cursory investigation shows to have been bullshit.


    FACT IS you get BETTER intel by NOT torturing people. The units that did not torture got MORE information and better quality information than those that tortured and mistreated prisoners.


    Spoken like a true fascist.
    Government security forces acting in secret without oversight or accountability because the public can't handle the truth....

    Fuck that shit. That is NOT the United States of America. This is an OPEN Govenrment run by LAW, not fiat and secret tribunal say so.

    If a person is guilty then there is EVIDENCE demonstrating that fact.
    SHOW the fucking evidence.

    People like you don't deserve to live in a free society, because you do not support the principles that underlie freedom.


    Sorry... but your friend in the DOD is a fucking liar.

    I KNOW he's a fucking liar because he CAN NOT SHOW EVIDENCE.

    Here's a hint on how to spot a fascist... he the dumb fuck CLAIMING that he has evidence condemning someone , but that he can not SHOW you that evidence for reasons of 'security'.


    When those with the power of THUMBSCREW tell the people that showing them the proof of the prisoners guilt will make them less 'safe'...
    That ALWAYS means they have no such proof.
     
    #15 Phil Ayesho, Dec 18, 2008
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2008
  16. just some guy

    just some guy New Member

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    You're right, the United States has openly engaged in the same thing that we tried and executed the Japanese for after WW2. But it's not too surprising Cheney admitted to it. It was already openly admitted to in a congressional hearing, so no longer considered a secret, and Cheney like Nixon feels he is above the law. If the media had more access to him I'm sure his sheer hubris would have him admitting to more things than just this, but he also feels he shouldn't have to explain himself to anyone so the media only rarely gets access.
     
  17. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    When did I say I had high-powered friends? Maybe I do, I would never post that on a website.

    I'm not sure an agent in the DOD is high-powered, but its an insight...a firsthand account. That doesn't pass the sniff test, Rec?

    Yeah. It was about condemning Cheney and implying that the VP isn't permitted to condone that activity. So Phil says.

    Nothing wrong with your opinion. I respectfully disagree.
     
  18. Phil Ayesho

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    this is not true.

    We learned almost NOTHING of any use from him thru torture. What he gave up thru torture has been described by the military man in charge as 80% useless, misleading, and false... that he was essentially saying anything his torturers wanted to hear. Making shit up, even, just to get them to stop.



    You gotta STOP believing the pronouncment from goebbles- er , I Mean Cheney... on the effectivenss of torture.

    In fact, people involved in interrogation of detainees have written books explaining how INEFFECTIVE torture actually was... and how the most valuable information was obtained by treating the prisoners well.

    War Crimes are war crimes.
    If it was wrong in 1944, it is still wrong today.
     
  19. B_starinvestor

    B_starinvestor New Member

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    Cheney told the truth. Didn't have shit to hide.

    Hmm.
     
  20. midlifebear

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    Nicely put, Phil. Couldn't agree more.
     
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