Cheney leaves Leno dumbfounded

[Thedrewbert]

No credible information has been obtained through torture. No terror act stopped based on such information. No advanced warning of ones that did occur.

 

[davidjh7]

If you agree with being a sadistic prick, in the name of security, if you feel the end always justifies the means (Hitler and Stalin sure did), fine. At least admit you are a sadistic bastard who believes human torture is good business, good politics, and being a good American. Just don't try and come off as "Oh, America is so moral and good an righteous and so holy". We are just as big of bastards as the rest of the world. I'm not saying other coutries are any better in this regard--I'm saying we are all son's of bitches. At least be honest about it.

How about the many people in your city of Seattle - maybe friends and family that were spared because of water boarding (which I will grant you as a form of torture).

If I were you I would be OK with it.

 

[D_Percy_Prettywillie]

No credible information has been obtained through torture. No terror act stopped based on such information. No advanced warning of ones that did occur.

The problem is that Jack Bauer. 24 made it seem as though, under the right set of circumstances, torturing a person is a-okay. And, were those circumstances ever existent in reality, I'd agree. But they aren't, haven't been, and likely won't ever be. I say it's 24 but that's only kind of what I mean; what I mean to say is that the perception is that things like that can and do happen and supporters of "enhanced interrogation techniques" are so sure of it, that's how they justify it.

It's is yet another example of fact verses fiction where the right seems most comfortable embracing the latter.



JSZ

 

[Rikter8]

I saw pictures of his bulge when he was sitting down and it was amazing.

It's a colostomy bag. Covered this one long ago.
The more shit that he spews out, the larger it gets.

 

[Sklar]

No credible information has been obtained through torture. No terror act stopped based on such information. No advanced warning of ones that did occur.

Except the initial information gathered, that led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden, came from enhanced interrogation/torture provided at Gitmo from a man captured on the battlefield fighting against the U.S.

Torture has it's place when used judiciously, sparingly & in the right situation. Again, I'll use the classic example of if a relative was kidnapped and threatened with death, I would use ANY means to find out where they were located to get them home safely.

Some of you may not like that and, shocker here, I respect that. But don't you judge me for doing what I need to do to protect my family.

Sklar

 

[Bbucko]

Torture apologists make me puke in my mouth.

 

[dreamer20]

Except the initial information gathered, that led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden, came from enhanced interrogation/torture provided at Gitmo from a man captured on the battlefield fighting against the U.S...

Sklar

^^ That statement of yours is not true Sklar. See that false claim, made by Micheal Mukasey, debunked here:

John McCain - Torture Did Not Lead To Osama Bin Laden's Capture

May 12,2011 Excerpt:

"For­mer attor­ney gen­eral Michael Mukaseyrecently claimed that “the intel­li­gence that led to bin Laden . . . began with a dis­clo­sure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who broke like a dam under the pres­sure of harsh inter­ro­ga­tion tech­niques that included water­board­ing. He loosed a tor­rent of infor­ma­tion — includ­ing even­tu­ally the nick­name of a trusted courier of bin Laden...” That is false.

I asked CIA Direc­tor Leon Panetta for the facts, and he told me the fol­low­ing: The trail to bin Laden did not begin with a dis­clo­sure from Khalid Sheik Mohammed, who was water­boarded 183 times. The first men­tion of Abu Ahmed al-Kuwaiti — the nick­name of the al-Qaeda courier who ulti­mately led us to bin Laden — as well as a descrip­tion of him as an impor­tant mem­ber of al-Qaeda, came from a detainee held in another coun­try, who we believe was not tor­tured. None of the three detainees who were water­boarded pro­vided Abu Ahmed’s real name, his where­abouts or an accu­rate descrip­tion of his role in al-Qaeda."

 

[Pierced1953]

Cheney leaves us all sick to our bellies. I wouldn't beleive him or any person in this government, not even the cia. Their all selling us out and doing a good job at it.

Davidjh7 has it right. Do I support it, no. I beleived in it when I was serving, do I now, I don't know to be honest. I know one thing, that I would love for this country to be the example of human rights, etc, but that will never happen.

The only answer for us to lead again is get the hell out of these wars and of course fire every politican in office and send them to Gitmo.Then I would beleive in waterboarding.

 

[davidjh7]

Cheney leaves us all sick to our bellies. I wouldn't beleive him or any person in this government, not even the cia. Their all selling us out and doing a good job at it.

Davidjh7 has it right. Do I support it, no. I beleived in it when I was serving, do I now, I don't know to be honest. I know one thing, that I would love for this country to be the example of human rights, etc, but that will never happen.

The only answer for us to lead again is get the hell out of these wars and of course fire every politican in office and send them to Gitmo.Then I would beleive in waterboarding.

Thank you for serving. This is ONE postive thing I have seen come out of the waste of these wars---we as a public have not blamed the soldier for the sins of our leaders. We at least learned THAT from Vienam. Whn the soldier is on the ground, he is mainly fighting for his life and the lives of his comrades--not for ideaology. He is doing his job. Do I think there are circumstances that torture against certain specific individuals is needed? Probably. It doesn't make it any more moral or correct. I share in the sins of the populace like everybody else does. None of us are totally innocent. There are no easy answers, because humans are complex, pretty much selfish self serving creatures. We will either learn to change, or we will become extinct. All the rhetoric, stories, wars, money, greed, power and petty concerns in the world won't change that. Argue all you want to, people. Grow up, or die. Your choice.

 

[123scotty]

Except the initial information gathered, that led to the killing of Osama Bin Laden, came from enhanced interrogation/torture provided at Gitmo from a man captured on the battlefield fighting against the U.S.


Sklar

how did someone kept in a prison camp with no contact with the outside world have up to date information of the whereabouts of bin laden // just a thought

 

[B_crackoff]

No credible information has been obtained through torture. No terror act stopped based on such information. No advanced warning of ones that did occur.

Are you mad! Information obtained through torture is not usually credible IN COURT - but as for eliciting information from people who do actually have knowledge - it's very successful. It's attested to throughout history. The US made a study of the qualities of the (few) prisoners of war who didn't break under torture in the Korean War.

If I stick a gun in someone's mouth or in his kid's face, he's gonna tell me his bank details - even the toughest people break under the ever increasing, relentless, wind up of agony.

Bush tortured to get information that could be used in operations, but not used in court.

Obama said, fuck the information, fuck the court, just shoot the fucker (Osama).

Which is better?

how did someone kept in a prison camp with no contact with the outside world have up to date information of the whereabouts of bin laden // just a thought

Well because that story has changed so many times, & even most of the special forces in the mission are conveniently dead, I think that people can just choose to believe whatever they want.

 

[dandelion]

Yes people will tell you what you want to know. The problem is they will tell you what you want to know.

 

[FleshlightMouth]

Cheney, forever a board member of the criminal warmonger corporation Halliburton, has always reminded me, with his cold-blooded, no-scruples-whatsoever smirk, of creepy Laurence Olivier in The Marathon Man...

 

[USN2MD]

Hmmmm,

Im kinda undecided about Dick Cheney, so I guess I will buy his book and read it, see what he has to say.

As for the torture statement to Jay Leno, thats true. If you have ever been in Evasion and Escape training you have been water boarded. Its not fun, Dunno if I would call it torture per se. But thing about it is this: You can resist/lie but only to a point. Its more about the interrogation. Its like a lie detector test they already know the answers to many of the questions that they ask you so they can gauge your responses. Then they use information that they can confirm from another source to get you to confirm and so on. I believe it has been effective because of the interrogations. Very few people have been water boarded, and while its not fun its not barbaric in the sense of trauma/injury. I guess either you are at war or your not, if you are then you practice total warfare which is far more barbaric than the enhanced interrogations. I would go so far as to say that some of the information that was gathered this way has and is being used by the Obama Administration including the take down of OBL.

 

[D_MastaBaiter]

What can a person say, it's Leno talking to Cheney, both know all about devious deeds. It's stunning to me that Leno was left speechless, apparently he wasn't speechless upon requesting his old spot back after O'Brien had taken it over. I think he takes on interviews like Cheney because they make him (Leno) look so good.

 

[B_enzia35]

Yes people will tell you what you want to know. The problem is they will tell you what you want to know.

That's a problem? Or did you mean to say they'll tell you what you want to hear?

 

[B_enzia35]

I think an excellent example of enhanced interrogation is Lt. Col Allen West's story.

 

[davidjh7]

War is SUPPOSED to be brutal and ugly and detestable. It should never be clean, or make you feel good. It is supposed to make you SICK, so it is only used as the last possible resort. Because we ae humans, it is sometimes necessary--but it should never be easy or clean. And we should ALL be forced to see its ugliest parts. Because we all share in the responsibility. This includes torture. Does water boarding cause any permanent physical harm? Probably not. Does parading a man around naked and on a leash by a woman, whose ingrained culture finds it the worst form of abasement cause any permanent physical harm, either? Probably not. Does it scar someone forever? You have to figure that out for yourself. War is neither moral nor good. It never was. It may be necessary, and if you are forced into it, then do it as the animal war forces you to become. Just don't try and pretty it up and try and make it other than it is. And those responsible for it, don't pretty them up and let them be anythng other than they are, either.

 

[Upperdown]

Cheney was on Leno last night as part of his book promotion tour. When Leno waded into the "torture" wasteland Cheney said it was okay because every method that was used on enemy prisoners had previously been tested on our own people! Leno said "well you got me there".

He didn't say it was "tested," he said it has been used. Most famously its used in SERE school. This has been the case for many decades. You can rest assured that the CIA and NSA have similar programs that prepare their agents to face torture.

 

[Bbucko]

I think an excellent example of enhanced interrogation is Lt. Col Allen West's story.

His interrogation techniques were deemed torture and unacceptable by the commanding general of the 4th Infantry Division in 2003. He was censured and fined $5000. I'm unclear why he wasn't court-marshaled.

A much better example of the use of torture would be Jose Padilla.