Cherokee voting to expell the Freedmen

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by naughty, Mar 3, 2007.

  1. naughty

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    Workin' up a good pot of mad!
    Ok,

    I am through. The pathology in this country is over the top. There is a movement afoot started by a woman with 1/256th Cherokee blood to expell the black members of the tribe. This is an ugly trend that has been going on since the 1970's and the sight of any revenue to be made by the tribes. This angers me so deeply that i can barely speak about it. I am sick of the racism. This is one of the reasons most black people if they even do have a drop of Native American blood do not even chose to acknowledge it. This is why many tribes with mixed raced membership find it hard to be Registered or recognized. When will it end? Here are two articles discussing it.

    VOA News - Cherokees to Vote: Can Freedmen be Native American?

    Official Efforts of the Cherokee Nation to Remove the Freedmen Now In Place
     
  2. HazelGod

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    Call me simpleminded or naively optimistic, but I don't believe this shit will ever stop until our public institutions stop legitimizing racial segregations.

    When there is no longer any legal definition anywhere of white, black, hispanic, native American, etc...and when there is no longer any benefit (tangible or percieved) to being able to qualify oneself along such lines...only then are we likely to see a social progression away from racism. And much like Kuhn's notion of paradigm shifts through revolution, don't expect such change to manifest itself in the present population. A sweeping alteration in public policy will go a long way toward raising the next generations of kids to be "color blind", but
    a couple generations of living adults will likely take their existing racist attitudes with them to their graves.
     
  3. naughty

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    Hazelgod,

    You are not at all simpleminded. It is very optimistic. I just wonder if things will ever change no matter what has been legislated. YOu can not legislate a change in heart. As long as people have parents and grandparents , there is greed and selfishness in the world this will continue. I mean this for everyone! No matter what color creed or sexual orientation. It just blows my mind.











     
  4. Gisella

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    Well..very very very sensitive issue for sure...

    And about the ones who has "white" blood are they going to be expell too? :rolleyes:

    "Citizens of the Cherokee Nation shall be only those originally enrolled on, or descendants of those enrolled on, the Final Rolls of the Cherokee Nation, commonly referred to as the Dawes Rolls, for those listed as Cherokees by blood, Delaware Cherokees pursuant to Article II of the Delaware Agreement dated the 8th day of May, 1867, and the Shawnee Cherokees pursuant to Article III of the Shawnee Agreement dated the 9th day of June, 1869."


    Anyways as sad and an ultraje to many not be embraced etc If I was between the ones without pure blood just come up with our own "Cherokee Band All of The Rest" and united all of those expelled from it because of mixed blood.

    Plus as I understand right , Cherokee is a Nation with their own rights etc and they may choose to exist and vote in any statute agreed by majority and really do whatever they agree between their members...As heartbraking it may be by trying to influence and pressure by PC and they agree they are being racist but not really change their hearts and walls in it - and still reject the others not pure blood ones it will be a comunity living a lie, because they will cohexist together but not in acceptance as embrace ancestors and roots they have in commom. I for sure would not want to be part of a group that I'm really accepted because of PC...but really really liked as part of it...

    Its so sad...I wish they dialogue a lot, before they reach conclusion and sign laws, decrees etc...:eek:uch: :disappointed: oh man, what a sad situation.

    And strange as it may be I do really really respect the rights Cherokee Nation or any tribal indigenous has as any sovereign nation to come up with their own rules and regulations...
     
  5. naughty

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    I do understand their 'right" but why didnt they exercise this right when they didnt have any Casino revenue? Im sorry it is all about money. We have members on this board of partial Cherokee descent I wonder what their feeling about this is?







     
  6. Gisella

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    Well..it seems the Cherokees from Oklahoma are voting about that...and it seems they may be even separated themselves from the ones from NC band Cherokee Nation in the Smoky Mountains, I visited the ones in NC...

    Well...I will find out..if I can.

    But for sure I do understand as a mixed race person at least a bit about be mixed and not one blooded and to be proud and reckon all of my mixing ancestors. :smile:
     
  7. naughty

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    Gisella,

    I would love to meet you one day. I am sure we may have a number of similarities! LOL!
     
  8. Gisella

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    :tongue: :wink: :cool:

    Yep it would be cool Naughty and I'm already researching about the ones who are voting about that and feel the same..hopefully the one I'm communicating will send me an answer...:wink:

    Kisses...
     
  9. naughty

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    YOu are something else! Did you know that? A woman of action!
     
  10. Gisella

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    Thank you but I know you feel the same of many causes too including this one.

    Every nation have their Beloved women warriors not only the Cherokees.

    Yeh we are Beloved warriors, I do believe WE are Naughty!

    Cool! I do hope the many Beloved Cherokee women of today arise with just common sense and sensibility to this matter they are voting!:smile:


    Native American Legends - Cherokee Women - Cherokee


    Call me silly but I take to the heart the spirit behind the beautiful legends of native Indigenous peoples.
     
  11. Knockernail

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    I gave my opinion and i won´t do it again. Then, i realised that i have no information enough, and still i haven´t.

    Theoretically this is a domestic affair. But in the deep underlies the eternal problem: racism. Hate and agressions are not the only shape to racism. It´s hurtful to see how the world goes down to shit instead of grow up.

    Don´t you feel tired sometimes? Everybody has the need to hate, to reject, to cause pain. I don´t believe as you do, Naughty, that money is behind.

    Nadie merece la pena, dear.

    Perhaps we are as bad as we look like.
     
  12. MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK

    MASSIVEPKGO_CHUCK Well-Known Member

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    the pain behind your eyes
    I don't think I'm quite grasping nor understanding the validity behind such an act, since it was my impression that neither race thought it had made a dif up til now. They're deciding now, as opposed to when it started?and denying people who have heritage in the Cherokee Nation out of the Nation?
    Tell me this doesn't stink of hypocrisy, racism and/or recent ignorant racial purity.
     
  13. B_big dirigible

    B_big dirigible New Member

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    That's just one factor, and even the racism here is a bit different from normal everyday racism, of the sorts inspired by bigotry or by politics. The treaties setting aside reservations were not just surveys of pieces of dirt. They set up approximately sovereign territories inside the boundaries of the US. These territories were recognized "in perpetuity" (whatever that means) and included racial provisions. Without these racial provision the treaties would have been meaningless - they'd have been little more than fancy zoning ordinances. They were meant to be areas in which small populations lived on large areas (a consequence of the miserable efficiencies of North American Indian economies) without constant harassment on the frontiers by contractors building parking lots (or worse). So definitions of exactly who qualifies as an "Indian", and exactly which sort of Indian, were needed.

    The racist angle remains inseparable from the entire "reservation" concept, since they're places "reserved" for Indians, not for anyone else.

    Note that the reservations were not concentration camps. Racial qualifications were not intended to keep anyone isolated inside. Anyone can leave a reservation. But not just anyone can get in. Otherwise everyone would try to move into one. Wow, no taxes! No draft! Woo-hoo! And no state or federal prohibitions on alcohol or guns! Or GAMBLING!!!! Those business benefits were apparently not envisioned by whoever drew up the treaties.

    The whole arrangement makes little sense nowadays, but treaties are treaties, no matter how badly thought out. So we're stuck with them. Note that failure to honor the provisions of particular treaties in the past - the state of Georgia's encroachment on the original Cherokee reservation being a particularly well-known example - does not imply a justification for a general treaty violation free-for-all today. In other words, it's not at all obvious just how much anyone outside has to say about how Indians, however defined, conduct their affairs inside the reservations. The legal history of that question is long, tedious, and not particularly enlightening.

    Should Indians on reservations try to institute slavery, or human sacrifice, or raise armies, or allow the Russians to put in missile silos, that might change. But if their internal battles are about little more than gambling revenues, don't expect much change in the near future.
     
  14. playainda336

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    See...this is why I don't write Native American on anything. My dad's side was like completely Native American (and German) until my grandfather.

    But I can't claim anything cause I'm Black?

    WTH?!

    Maybe I didn't read it well enough. Someone please clarify if I've mistaken it.
     
  15. Knockernail

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    That´s why i saved my opinion. I have no information. I can not talk about the situation. But i can talk about racism. And i know that racism almost never is the main argument. But always is there.

    And around the world black people is continuosly rejected. And there are always reasons, legitimate reasons, to do it.

    My blood has the negative Rh factor, like basques do, but if this become a reason to reject somebody, i would prefer change totally my blood. I am proud of all my ancestors, and no need to reject anyone to feel that pride. People use to say "i´m this, or that, english, polish, spanish, chinese" as if that was really important. As if that turned you into a better one.

    We all are mixed, and live mixed. History has lots of deffects that we can not change. We must accept it and learn, instead of make it worse. To remark the differences never may be good. For no one.
     
  16. naughty

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    My dear brother said that EVERYONE should have to take a DNA test and then shut up. If you have it ,good. If your dont, "Later!" THis case however was going back to a larger problem of many of the southern tribes who owned slaves . Even if they were of mixed race, fought alongside or in lieu of slave owners during the Civil War, they were still separated into what has been called "Freedmen" . When I mention any Native American blood in my veins, I tend to not mention any Cherokee that may have been mentioned to me because it always causes snickers. Yet another black person trying to claim they have Cherokee blood. I am not trying to perpetrate any frauds here. Hey if we didnt get the "40 acres and mule", why should we get "Our fifty" I dont know why this angers me so much, but it is just beyond the pale. I guess this information just brought up yet another thing for me to get upset about! :biggrin1:
     
  17. b.c.

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    It goes to show what happens when racism is taken to the nth level and how foolish it can all get to be. Hazelgod makes a good point in that race will continue to be a factor as long as racial designations remain a part of "official" documentation and policies.

    There are many here in New Orleans whose race might be considered "unclear" (by some definitions) because of their mixed heritage. My own wife has Native American ancestry. She looks "Asian" enough that Asian men have tried to speak to her in their languages.

    There are many blacks here that look white. And whites that look black. But only those of us asshole enough to think that any of that matters are concerned with those "trifles". Rather, as Naughty observed, most of us prefer to consider ourselves black (and are generally insulted at suggestions to the contrary). Much ado about nothing.
     
  18. Gisella

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    I just discovery that the votes was done (77% by 23% it seems)...and slave descendents lost tribal status...read:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/04/us/04vote.html?_r=1&oref=slogin



    And its not the 1st time this happened, in 2000 the Seminoles...: "in 2000 the Seminole Nation also expelled freedmen, but the federal Government then refused to recognise the Seminoles as a sovereign nation. Faced with such a loss of status, they accepted the freedmen back."


    Ps: I havent receive any answer to my question I asked another person outside Oklahoma about this issue too...well.
     
  19. naughty

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    Oh so now they want the blacks back, do they?(Seminoles)













     
  20. witchway

    witchway New Member

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    Yeah Naughty they had to take us back into the fold! I think it´s pretty sad. I never really mention that my Great-Grandma, whom I love dearly is Seminole because people always say oh that can´t be you don´t look Indian at all! I say yeah i know but if you see my sister you wouldn´t know we were related unless we told you because she does have that Indian look. I think this whole thing has to do more with money than with race.
     
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