Cherokee voting to expell the Freedmen

Love-it

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My other family, neighbors, that I spent a lot of time with, Al was 1/2 Cherokee and his uncle was a full blood, never received any tribal benefits. The Cherokee nation as a whole has always been tight with their money and tribal status.

My ancestral native american blood line came into the family tree in the 1620's so it's pretty well thinned out.
 

DC_DEEP

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<...>
And its not the 1st time this happened, in 2000 the Seminoles...: "in 2000 the Seminole Nation also expelled freedmen, but the federal Government then refused to recognise the Seminoles as a sovereign nation. Faced with such a loss of status, they accepted the freedmen back."
Oh, that's the fucking surprise of the century, right?

The federal government did the right thing in this case. Will they have the balls to do the same with the Cherokee Nation? I doubt it. And if the federal government did threaten loss of sovereignty over this, do you think the Cherokee Nation would backtrack?

How pathetic. The Seminoles (reluctantly) kept their token niggers. I bet the Cherokees would, too.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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T Anyone can leave a reservation. But not just anyone can get in. Otherwise everyone would try to move into one.

Yeah, reservations are fantastic. Just look at how happy the Indians are who live on them. Considering everything the suicide rates are remarkably low. and you're right, those treaties were totally lopsided in the Indian's favor. Man, whitefolks really shafted themselves on those. You're so full of insight.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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It has been my understanding that you have to be at least 1/8 of a race to be able to legally claim it. The problem is a result of the federal government's retaliation against the Cherokee nation for fighting against them during the Civil War. The federal government is the one that listed these Freedmen as black or Cherokee. I am a much larger percentage Cherokee than these Freedmen and I am not entitled to any of the money. My mother was the last of my line that could legally list her race as Cherokee. We will continue to deal with these issues as long as this country exists. Slavery is a terrible thing. It still exists in Africa, Asia, India, and other regions of the world. There were even freed blacks in the south that owned slaves. It is one of the most horrible institutions mankind has ever created.
 

Gisella

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I dont understand something..many things...:biggrin1:

We know reservations are poor etc, but how they get money to build cassinos and stuff? Dont they receive money from federal gov? Its not tax payers money? If it so they are not really free as a sovereign nation...hmmm...well, than as much they can make new rules and regulation if people just choose to boycote cassinos etc because of this situation they will feel the pressure.

Who gave the ideia to build cassinos in reservations anyway to generate $$$?:confused:


Another thing...you may can not see the NA blood in a black person because black is dominant but for sure you can see the white in a NA because of the blue eyes etc and they may have the same % of mixing NA in them, mixing is going on for a very long time...what is hot and cool. :cool:
 

Full_Phil

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---We know reservations are poor etc, but how they get money to build casinos and stuff? Dont they receive money from federal gov? Its not tax payers money? ---

Some, but not all, reservations have laws that allow casinos. Private developers come in and put up casinos with their own private capital, giving very little to the Native Americans in the process. The fact that the casinos provide jobs causes the tribes in question to be willing to grant the developers access to their lands and protection. The tribes receive only a minimal percentage of the gross.
 

kalipygian

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This is another case of 'the tyrany of the majority', not respecting the rights of a minority that they can outvote. Contrary to the principals of democracy.

I think that the federal requirement for free medical coverage is that a person be 1/16. Anchorage has a magnificent complex of hospital and many other facilities for native Alaskans (thanks to Ted Steven's longevity as senate finance chair) I am, according to my family, but it can't be proved.

The seminoles as a seperate tribe, are not old, their ancestors, muscoegans, moved south into northern florida in the 18th c. after the British in the Carolinas with their Indian Allies had carried the origonal Florida indians of to slavery and the area was depopulated. Many escaped slaves joined them, living in their villages, or seperate ones nearby. All Seminoles are mixed with African. The first treaty when the US got possession of Florida recognized the Seminoles possession of most the penninsula, all the area south of around the Santa Fe river and west of the St. Johns.

The first slaves of europeans were indians, supplemented later by an increasing number of Africans. The early slave laws in the Carolinas and Virginia referred to african and indian slaves. So I think that probably most black people in the US have some indian ancestry as well.

The Cherokees before Andrew Jackson Forced them to move west of the Mississippi owned quite a few African slaves, they were proud of being a civilized tribe. They took these along with them on the trail of tears. The civil war was extremely brutal in the Indian Country established west of the Mississippi, a lot of atrocities.

I have relatives in Florida who are proud off being full cherokee, They look to me like a blend from three continents. They are not connected to any organized recognized tribal organization. I have met Cherokees from Oklahoma with Klan sympathies.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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Some of the Freedmen were classified as Indian even tho they had no Indian blood in them. It's all a nightmare caused by the Federal Government. The Cherokee nation fought on the side of the Confederacy hoping to be a free nation again. Some of the people who are descendants of the Freedmen said they are black and do not want to claim Indian in any way. Yet, they are screaming about the vote. I am 1/16th Cherokee. I can't claim this as my legal race. Why on earth should someone who is 1/64 or even 1/256 be able too? It's all a mess and totally nuts.
Btw, a lot of the tribes in Oklahoma owned lands with vast oil reserves. The federal government mismanaged the land and the tribes were cheated out of billions of dollars in oil royalties. Some of the protest is bound to be over the proposed settlement the federal government has made to the tribes. It's in the billions.
 

Shelby

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Call me simpleminded or naively optimistic, but I don't believe this shit will ever stop until our public institutions stop legitimizing racial segregations.

When there is no longer any legal definition anywhere of white, black, hispanic, native American, etc...and when there is no longer any benefit (tangible or percieved) to being able to qualify oneself along such lines...only then are we likely to see a social progression away from racism. And much like Kuhn's notion of paradigm shifts through revolution, don't expect such change to manifest itself in the present population. A sweeping alteration in public policy will go a long way toward raising the next generations of kids to be "color blind", but
a couple generations of living adults will likely take their existing racist attitudes with them to their graves.

My hat is off to you. :notworthy: You said what I've been preaching for what seems like ever without being inflammatory.

And I'll tell you this. My children's attitude in this regard is so far removed from my late grandfather's as to be totally unrecognizable.
 

danerain

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Yeah, reservations are fantastic. Just look at how happy the Indians are who live on them. Considering everything the suicide rates are remarkably low. and you're right, those treaties were totally lopsided in the Indian's favor. Man, whitefolks really shafted themselves on those. You're so full of insight.


I am so going to hell for the LMAO I had to this.

Another thing...you may can not see the NA blood in a black person because black is dominant but for sure you can see the white in a NA because of the blue eyes etc and they may have the same % of mixing NA in them, mixing is going on for a very long time...what is hot and cool. :cool:

Most people don't know what a Native American person looks like. Because of that, they can't tell when someone is part Native American.

One of the annoying things that I have to put up with is that many people see my NA features and assume that they come from another group (European, African), but people who are NA generally notice that I have "Cherokee eyes" and my skin color is rather NA. I always tell people that I could tell that they're part Native American because of the "peachy tint to your skin".

I once had a black girl tell me that I wasn' dark enough to be Cherokee, but whenever I tell my friends who are Cherokee or know people who are Cherokee that, they always tell me that most Cherokee people are my color.
 

naughty

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Danerain,

I think you have an interesting point there. Why would people assume that all native americans are monolithic? The Movies and TV. The interesting thing is that since the Cherokees themselves have been mixing with Whites for centuries might there not be a bit of color mixing as well? I guess the thing that angers me most and caused this whole thread is that I find racism is tending to go one way. I dare not say more but it is enough to make anyone just throw up their hands and run screaming into the night.







I am so going to hell for the LMAO I had to this.



Most people don't know what a Native American person looks like. Because of that, they can't tell when someone is part Native American.

One of the annoying things that I have to put up with is that many people see my NA features and assume that they come from another group (European, African), but people who are NA generally notice that I have "Cherokee eyes" and my skin color is rather NA. I always tell people that I could tell that they're part Native American because of the "peachy tint to your skin".

I once had a black girl tell me that I wasn' dark enough to be Cherokee, but whenever I tell my friends who are Cherokee or know people who are Cherokee that, they always tell me that most Cherokee people are my color.
 

danerain

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Danerain,

I think you have an interesting point there. Why would people assume that all native americans are monolithic? The Movies and TV. The interesting thing is that since the Cherokees themselves have been mixing with Whites for centuries might there not be a bit of color mixing as well? I guess the thing that angers me most and caused this whole thread is that I find racism is tending to go one way. I dare not say more but it is enough to make anyone just throw up their hands and run screaming into the night.

From what my friends who are Cherokee tell me, it depends on the area. Because of what happened to the Native Americans there was a lot of mixing going around. While a lot of the people I've met say that they are also part Cherokee, most full-blooded Cherokee people aren't that dark.

Oh, well, the important thing to remeber is that no matter how different our skin color is, we can still come together and produce fertile offspring which proves that we're all on people....

Now if only we could get other people to understand that.
 

Principessa

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My maternal grandmother always identified herself as being GeeChee. It never occurred to us to ask her about it unless her siblings were around and they started talking in the Gullah language which we didn't understand.

My maternal great-great grandfather was a full blooded Cherokee who married a free born Black woman. He owned property in South Carolina. Some parcels have been sold off since the initial purchase in 1813 but about 14 acres still remain in our family today.

I only recently found out about this and find it amazing that some of my ancestors managed to avoid the "Trail of Tears" as well as slavery. I guess that explains my naturally egalitarian style and patrician sense of self :wink:.

So my question is where do I fit into all this, if at all. It appears I am about to be cut out of a rich cultural heritage I've only known about a little while. :frown1:
 

danerain

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My maternal grandmother always identified herself as being GeeChee. It never occurred to us to ask her about it unless her siblings were around and they started talking in the Gullah language which we didn't understand.

My maternal great-great grandfather was a full blooded Cherokee who married a free born Black woman. He owned property in South Carolina. Some parcels have been sold off since the initial purchase in 1813 but about 14 acres still remain in our family today.

I only recently found out about this and find it amazing that some of my ancestors managed to avoid the "Trail of Tears" as well as slavery. I guess that explains my naturally egalitarian style and patrician sense of self :wink:.

So my question is where do I fit into all this, if at all. It appears I am about to be cut out of a rich cultural heritage I've only known about a little while. :frown1:

Erm, no. Just beacuse someone wants to tell you that you don't get to claim, or should not claim, part of your heritage, it doesn't mean that you have to listen to them. I've told many people "where to go and what to do when they get there" when they tried to tell me who I was.

If someone tries to tell you what you aren't send 'em to me. I've got enough MixedBoyrage to spread.
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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You are not being told you cannot say you are of Cherokee heritage. The vote is to define their nation according to their own standards and not what was forced on them by a retaliatory action of the government. I still don't see how anyone could have screamed about apartheid in South Africa but not act the least bit concerned about what is still being done to the indigenous people of this continent. Until my immune system went nuts, I had the Cherokee coloring. I have naturally dark olive skin. What I didn't get were the tiny eyes and black hair. My mom and her dad had those. I did get something else from them too. Just call me "Tonto Goldstein" hahaha
 

danerain

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You are not being told you cannot say you are of Cherokee heritage. The vote is to define their nation according to their own standards and not what was forced on them by a retaliatory action of the government. I still don't see how anyone could have screamed about apartheid in South Africa but not act the least bit concerned about what is still being done to the indigenous people of this continent. Until my immune system went nuts, I had the Cherokee coloring. I have naturally dark olive skin. What I didn't get were the tiny eyes and black hair. My mom and her dad had those. I did get something else from them too. Just call me "Tonto Goldstein" hahaha

:biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:

My friend got that too. Did you get the cheekbones? The cheekbones are hawt.

:biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1::biggrin1:
 

D_Bob_Crotchitch

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I got the cheekbones, the almost paper thin skin, the lack of much body hair. I got rhythm, I got music....my great great grandmother was a full-blooded Cherokee squaw. She married a white man and got the heck off the reservation.
 

naughty

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You are not being told you cannot say you are of Cherokee heritage. The vote is to define their nation according to their own standards and not what was forced on them by a retaliatory action of the government. I still don't see how anyone could have screamed about apartheid in South Africa but not act the least bit concerned about what is still being done to the indigenous people of this continent. Until my immune system went nuts, I had the Cherokee coloring. I have naturally dark olive skin. What I didn't get were the tiny eyes and black hair. My mom and her dad had those. I did get something else from them too. Just call me "Tonto Goldstein" hahaha


Tonto Goldstein, I love it! Now I do have to see a pic....:biggrin1: