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chrisrobin

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yes they will, but it doesn't mean they won't experience a crisis. Such a crisis would hit the rest world as well... I don't worry what will be in another 4000 years, but what will happen withinthe next 40.
that's a topic that is seen quite controversial. On the one hand we appreciate the extra money that comes in our economy when they buy it, just as we appreciate even more moneyif they run further inventions.

On the other hand we think about the long term consequences. China wants to develop its own economy, what will happen to Germany in case of knowledge transfer? What will happen in case of a crisis, will they support their German companies just as much as their own?

It's very likely that we grow our own competitor... not so good.
If you think about the long tern consequences its already to late. Cyber theft etc has been taking place for years, China has all the secrets from German Manufacturers - and indeed the entire free world - or what we think is the free world - and are using that information to hone down and refine their own products. China has never bothered with the rule of law its just the rule of might.
As for local economies world wide the west is benefitting from the floods of cheap imports, fakes, copies and near replicas - and hey - the west is enjoying them to the detriment of the companies who actually own the copyright, patents etc to these goods. Don't expect the Chinese to stop these exports, don't expect the Cheese to stop stealing secrets and don't expect China to come to the aid of America - for truth to tell the great American public like these fake bags, tans, bling and white goods as much as the rest of the world..
 
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Drifterwood

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My penny-worth:

China has a very high regard for China and all things Chinese. This is the view from the leadership and also the unchallenged view of most Chinese, where it easily topples over into racism. The new silk-road project sees China as being the hub of global trade. It really does see this century as the Chinese century. The expectation is that China will become the only super-power.

.

When I said you need to start with the topography, this would help you see that China has developed its culture largely in isolation. But unlike little out of the way places, China is huge and so it developed without seeing the need for outside influences.

Outsiders encountering this attitude can take it as supreme arrogance and this lead to the opium war and what the Chinese know as the Century of shame. They do not intend to make the same mistake again, namely being militarily weaker.

I wouldn't call it racism, though the attitude lingers that foreigners are generally not that relevant. It's more complicated than this but I don't have the time at the moment.

I have never encountered a positive attitude to Africans in China. I have discussed this with an African American friend who lives in China, and he was generally sympathetic given the actions of many Africans in China, ie many go to China purely for the criminal opportunities in his opinion / experience.

Also to the Chinese sensibility, we are big, hairy and ugly, especially our fat noses and round eyes. Add to this that we smell.
 

rbkwp

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havent you got it in you to have a nice word for anyone'any country but the UK Jason
you keep on saying similar things about RUSSIA
this paragraph/post is so negative

the silk road initiative belongs to China,certainly not the UK or anyone else BUT i believe Xi has stated from the outset that many many countries would benefit,incl the UK
and in fact i am fioguring the greasy UK had that in mind when they sucked up to Xi on hos visit,a year ago
just happened to be the BREXIT days so who was greasing/looking/kowtowing even for new trtade markets

well remember the last British Governor sailing out of Hong Kong wth his tail between his legs,and the oh so much and very many dire warnings/unproven, that Britain was putting out about how bad it was all going to end up
the total collapse of the financial world
BRITAINS financial world that is/wa the cry

never satisfied pom are my words to you Jason


Jason said: ?
My penny-worth:

China has a very high regard for China and all things Chinese. This is the view from the leadership and also the unchallenged view of most Chinese, where it easily topples over into racism. The new silk-road project sees China as being the hub of global trade. It really does see this century as the Chinese century. The expectation is that China will become the only super-power.
 
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Drifterwood

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My penny-worth:


The success of the Chinese economy is clear. The elephant in the corner is Chinese sub-sovereign debt. The Chinese system means that this is not openly declared and no-one truly knows how much there is. However the extent of building in every city and region suggests the sub-sovereign debt is huge. The scenario is that as sub-sovereign debt goes bad (and one view is that it inevitably will because there is so much) it must end up on the sovereign balance sheet. The contrarian view is that the Chinese economy is riding for a fall with a massive sovereign debt crisis brewing.

There are thousands of empty buildings.

But, if you don't appreciate the scale of China, you won't see this in its relative context. Also, if the Chinese Government tells people that they are going to leave their old poor quality but free dwellings and live in the new ones, then they will.

The hope is that China will develop more, just a bit more, of a Western style monetarist policy. If you look at the debt ratios in every regard, including that which you see as hidden, then China has relatively little debt.

I wouldn't underestimate China's ability to plan and implement.
 

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My penny-worth:

Most in China have little interest in or knowledge of politics. Their society is not a democracy and criticism of the government is dangerous. Hong Kong is seen by the mainland as tainted by a Western infection. There is no knowledge of the invasion and occupation of Tibet, but instead denial that there was n invasion along with assertions that Tibet somehow was always part of China. DItto Turkmenistan.

Incorrect. They have great knowledge of politics. China is the only country that has more people directly involved in politics than the UK. Their politics is like a pyramid rising from the smallest village in the middle of nowhere to the politburo. This is why change can be slow in China, it is excruciating to get the opinion of everyone, but everyone's opinion is taken. Whether they have any great interest in politics is another matter, but I cant see that the UK is actively political. With the exception of Momentum, party membership has almost disappeared in the UK.

Hong Kong, well Hong Kong has a different political system and China has agreed to a long transition period to the Chinese system. That change will happen, that was the deal. The attitude in China is that Political management should be left to the people who have been trained and chosen to deliver it. The people who get to the top, through a population double the size of the US and Western Europe are high quality operators. Don't underestimate that.

The Chinese view is that Tibet was liberated, rather like Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan. Tibet was one of the last Serf economies.
 

rbkwp

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one thing i will add
have never known of Britain to have invaded any other country on earth, EVER

unlike China / Tibet or Russia / Ukraine
countries that are within there own region/territory huh
that are likely theres anyway as per history

seems global expansion was acceptable in the day by the then superpopwers, so much talk about who the upcomming/present superpowers are now,certainly not Britain huh



There is no knowledge of the invasion and occupation of Tibet, but instead denial that there was n invasion along with assertions that Tibet somehow was always part of China. DItto Turkmenistan.

similarly this
always amazes me that an individual on here from whatever countyry cites human rights abuses, wehn we all know full well every country/every form of supposed democracy is guilty of such
some have more cunning/devious ways to conceal it, rename it to say collateral damage'



Chinese society is characterised by outrageous human rights abuses. This is a society which goes in for judicial murder (so called capital punishment) which is televised.
 

Jason

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I have never encountered a positive attitude to Africans in China. I have discussed this with an African American friend who lives in China, and he was generally sympathetic given the actions of many Africans in China, ie many go to China purely for the criminal opportunities in his opinion / experience.

Also to the Chinese sensibility, we are big, hairy and ugly, especially our fat noses and round eyes. Add to this that we smell.

Chinese reactions to Africans are extreme. They are viewed as inferior. They are viewed as intellectually and morally inferior, and as ugly. This is a repugnant view and I don't think it is right to excuse this, however many African criminals may operate in China. I know we in the West once did just the same, but attitudes have shifted. China needs to catch up.

Chinese reactions to Westerners are more nuanced. I once had my (drunk) translator translate someone who was addressing me as "the big-nosed foreigner". Reactions to Brits seem to be that we might be useful, but that they are holding their noses in dealing with us.
 

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The hope is that China will develop more, just a bit more, of a Western style monetarist policy. If you look at the debt ratios in every regard, including that which you see as hidden, then China has relatively little debt.

I wouldn't underestimate China's ability to plan and implement.

Chinese debt levels really are unknown. The comfortable idea is that they must be moderate, and even if the whole lot ended up on the sovereign balance sheet it would be no great problem. But the basic position remains that we have almost no data. There is an enormous shadow banking sector.

Chinese sovereign debt is around 42%, which sounds great. It's about $4.3tr. Bloomberg speculate that the sub-sovereign debt within the shadow banking system is double this. I don't know what Bloomberg base this on.

Of course all communist societies collapse under their debt. Inevitably this will happen to China. That's my view.
 

rbkwp

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WAS the BRITISH EMPIRE? (now defunct)

Germany in between

THEN the USA (stll trying)

NOW CHINA, and why not

dont forget, EVERYONES supposed to benefit?
China came up with the initiative, likely to do the bulk of the work, incl funding so who should benefit more? the USA??? baaaah

no one can do anything about how it happens? nuclear or not

Don’t be fooled by China’s grand plan to rule the world
one-belt-one-road.jpg


https://qz.com/1141893/chinas-grand...pitfalls/?mc_cid=6ce0581ce0&mc_eid=6e9ee02e61




there is truth in most of whats spoken, people are frowned upon if not actually Chinese have experienced it first hand

regarding the housing scenario drift
so many empty very high rises akright, everywhere
a real downfall for there Govt to allolw that so called 'boom'
think there was too much money around at the time, and they were all getting into the rip off scenario
cuurrently battling to keep our original hutong, they call it, but it NOW has 000s of these high rise buildings surrounding the entire original village .. and all are EMPTY

and while the original edict is/was
those who are foreign Chinese ie left China whenever, remain occupiers of there premises, does not mean it will not change in the future


Click to expand...
There are thousands of empty buildings.


 
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185248

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I have no problem with private companies investing in other nations. What, I have a problem with is companies with communist government money buying up another nations resources. We are a multi cultural nation, made up of many races.

None of us like the idea of our land being bought buy a foreign government intent on disrupting peace in the region. This is continually becoming evident in Australia.

I don't care what happened 100, 200, 300 or whatever years ago. China is one of the 5 veto countries of the UN. Yet they do not take any notice of it. Very rarely bother taking issue to vote on human rights issues throughout the world and abstain. It's the whole point of the UN.

The UN was set up to protect countries like China in the first place after the last war. Because of Japans aggression.

Now China is abusing it's new found status. It's no excuse to say, because countries in the past did it, we can do it too.

That's like giving every criminal in the world an excuse well, it happened to me, so I did it to you.

Chinese people helped build this country, but as far as their corrupt government goes, their blatant hacking, infiltration, encouraging dissidence among students studying here. Threatening Chinese living here etc. When we object to this behaviour we are given threats by their government, veiled or otherwise. So, as far as the Chines government goes, they can go get fucked.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-...rtys-power-and-influence-in-australia/8584270
 

hypolimnas

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People in China are ruled by military dictatorship. The government has an effective strategy to dominate world affairs through trade and economic influence. Military capacity is growing but their banking system maybe quite weak. Corruption and civil unrest as a result of human rights violations and environmental pollution remain major problems. China's temporary subjugation by western powers was a blip in world history.

I have no problem with private companies investing in other nations. What, I have a problem with is companies with communist government money buying up another nations resources. We are a multi cultural nation, made up of many races.

None of us like the idea of our land being bought buy a foreign government intent on disrupting peace in the region. This is continually becoming evident in Australia.

I don't care what happened 100, 200, 300 or whatever years ago. China is one of the 5 veto countries of the UN. Yet they do not take any notice of it. Very rarely bother taking issue to vote on human rights issues throughout the world and abstain. It's the whole point of the UN.

The UN was set up to protect countries like China in the first place after the last war. Because of Japans aggression.

Now China is abusing it's new found status. It's no excuse to say, because countries in the past did it, we can do it too.

That's like giving every criminal in the world an excuse well, it happened to me, so I did it to you.

Chinese people helped build this country, but as far as their corrupt government goes, their blatant hacking, infiltration, encouraging dissidence among students studying here. Threatening Chinese living here etc. When we object to this behaviour we are given threats by their government, veiled or otherwise. So, as far as the Chines government goes, they can go get fucked.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-...rtys-power-and-influence-in-australia/8584270
I have no problem with private companies investing in other nations. What, I have a problem with is companies with communist government money buying up another nations resources. We are a multi cultural nation, made up of many races.

None of us like the idea of our land being bought buy a foreign government intent on disrupting peace in the region. This is continually becoming evident in Australia.

I don't care what happened 100, 200, 300 or whatever years ago. China is one of the 5 veto countries of the UN. Yet they do not take any notice of it. Very rarely bother taking issue to vote on human rights issues throughout the world and abstain. It's the whole point of the UN.

The UN was set up to protect countries like China in the first place after the last war. Because of Japans aggression.

Now China is abusing it's new found status. It's no excuse to say, because countries in the past did it, we can do it too.

That's like giving every criminal in the world an excuse well, it happened to me, so I did it to you.

Chinese people helped build this country, but as far as their corrupt government goes, their blatant hacking, infiltration, encouraging dissidence among students studying here. Threatening Chinese living here etc. When we object to this behaviour we are given threats by their government, veiled or otherwise. So, as far as the Chines government goes, they can go get fucked.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-...rtys-power-and-influence-in-australia/8584270
I have no problem with private companies investing in other nations. What, I have a problem with is companies with communist government money buying up another nations resources. We are a multi cultural nation, made up of many races.

None of us like the idea of our land being bought buy a foreign government intent on disrupting peace in the region. This is continually becoming evident in Australia.

I don't care what happened 100, 200, 300 or whatever years ago. China is one of the 5 veto countries of the UN. Yet they do not take any notice of it. Very rarely bother taking issue to vote on human rights issues throughout the world and abstain. It's the whole point of the UN.

The UN was set up to protect countries like China in the first place after the last war. Because of Japans aggression.

Now China is abusing it's new found status. It's no excuse to say, because countries in the past did it, we can do it too.

That's like giving every criminal in the world an excuse well, it happened to me, so I did it to you.

Chinese people helped build this country, but as far as their corrupt government goes, their blatant hacking, infiltration, encouraging dissidence among students studying here. Threatening Chinese living here etc. When we object to this behaviour we are given threats by their government, veiled or otherwise. So, as far as the Chines government goes, they can go get fucked.

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2017-06-...rtys-power-and-influence-in-australia/8584270
 
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rbkwp

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saying its going to happen and theres nothing anyone can do about it
just a 'natural course of events' so to speak
not LPSGers on a thread or our chosen politicians
IF they wanted to do anything about it, not that they could?
dont people realise things happen that are beyond humankinds control??
take TRUMP at this time


Now China is abusing it's new found status. It's no excuse to say, because countries in the past did it, we can do it too.
 

chrisrobin

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Round the world both China and Japan have been buying properties - 30 years ago there was great concern that Canada would be foreign owned - and the USA want far behind in relying on Chinese money.
The African Continent is a rip fruit ready to pick if any nation wanting to put money in has no qualms.
China will invest heavily.
China will reach its goal of being a top world player as the USA sinks into protectionism under Trump - the only way that China can get out of its current economic slump is to invest and monetarily rape Africa !.
 
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Perados

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If you think about the long tern consequences its already to late. Cyber theft etc has been taking place for years, China has all the secrets from German Manufacturers - and indeed the entire free world - or what we think is the free world - and are using that information to hone down and refine their own products.
as more we will have to prepare that it won't happen in the guture again.
China has never bothered with the rule of law its just the rule of might.
That counts for the USA, France and Britain as well and Germany is used to it.

Sadly I have to say, our constitution allows all three to spy in Germany, against who ever they want.
Till 1989 200 million letters have been opened by the allies...
As for local economies world wide the west is benefitting from the floods of cheap imports, fakes, copies and near replicas - and hey - the west is enjoying them to the detriment of the companies who actually own the copyright, patents etc to these goods. Don't expect the Chinese to stop these exports, don't expect the Cheese to stop stealing secrets and don't expect China to come to the aid of America - for truth to tell the great American public like these fake bags, tans, bling and white goods as much as the rest of the world..
yes, the consumer is stupid and doesn't thinks about the consequences... and from the pov of the consumer, they do it right. It's less expensive and they go broken just as fast as western products, thanks to planned obdoleszenze.
 
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chrisrobin

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as more we will have to prepare that it won't happen in the guture again.
That counts for the USA, France and Britain as well and Germany is used to it.

Sadly I have to say, our constitution allows all three to spy in Germany, against who ever they want.
Till 1989 200 million letters have been opened by the allies...
yes, the consumer is stupid and doesn't thinks about the consequences... and from the pov of the consumer, they do it right. It's less expensive and they go broken just as fast as western products, thanks to planned obdoleszenze.
Any nation that thinks it is not spied on by its neighbours is living in a fools paradise.
Not only are all nations without exception looking into other countries affair and secrets so businesses all over the world are using property theft etc to bolster their balance sheets. The internet, cyber space have all made us more vulnerable to being attacked, infiltrated and spied on.
In the end it will be the one with the biggest nerve that wins
 
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Perados

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Incorrect. They have great knowledge of politics. China is the only country that has more people directly involved in politics than the UK. Their politics is like a pyramid rising from the smallest village in the middle of nowhere to the politburo. This is why change can be slow in China, it is excruciating to get the opinion of everyone, but everyone's opinion is taken. Whether they have any great interest in politics is another matter, but I cant see that the UK is actively political. With the exception of Momentum, party membership has almost disappeared in the UK.
yes, the party has a big influenceand the option to gain a big knowledge of their people. It's also true that structual changes are slow.

But it doesn't mean the party cares for the needs of the people.
They see a bigger picture and care for this only, single opinions of citizens don't count. The goal is to make everyone more wealth, since the past 5 years health counts as well. Everything else doesn't matter much.

And as we can see, even now where the party leaders care for health, it's still hard to realize the neew rules, because the local party member still care more for their personal wealth - change is slow.
Hong Kong, well Hong Kong has a different political system and China has agreed to a long transition period to the Chinese system. That change will happen, that was the deal. The attitude in China is that Political management should be left to the people who have been trained and chosen to deliver it. The people who get to the top, through a population double the size of the US and Western Europe are high quality operators. Don't underestimate that.
I think the change in Hong Kong is quite fast, isn't it?
The Chinese view is that Tibet was liberated, rather like Iraq, Libya or Afghanistan. Tibet was one of the last Serf economies.
mmmhh... the truth is that Tibet is the needed buffer to India - if China wouldn't rule it, India would.
Also is Tibet the source of Vhina's water supply.
Just like the USA they are free to argue they would have liberated Tibet, but the truth is, it was for strategical reasons.
 

Perados

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There are thousands of empty buildings.

But, if you don't appreciate the scale of China, you won't see this in its relative context. Also, if the Chinese Government tells people that they are going to leave their old poor quality but free dwellings and live in the new ones, then they will.
the problem is, these empty flats are private owned and seen as investment.
They don't want anyone to live their, they fear it would lower their value.

So, to solve this problem you would have to convince people to move their AND convince others to sell them or give them for rent...
The hope is that China will develop more, just a bit more, of a Western style monetarist policy. If you look at the debt ratios in every regard, including that which you see as hidden, then China has relatively little debt.

I wouldn't underestimate China's ability to plan and implement.
China has one big problem: they fear their people too much. They want to guarantee ever increasing wealth for everyone.
That's why they will try to cover all the negative effects of a crisis. This will cost a lot of money, will increase inflation and will make the next crisis even bigger.

Remember what happened as the Chinese stock exchange got down in 2015 (i guess it 2015). Just a year earlier China promised to cut their state interventions, but as soon as the stock exchange dropped "too much" China started interventions again.

I have doubts China will make a change
 
D

deleted931509

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actually its bone china - nothing to relate it to the country.
Bone china is fine and semi transparent, if you hold it to the light and pass your hand behind it you can see the shadow.
I think you might be confusing with the ambition to Bone China!
Actually I think china (teacups, etc.) is named after the country, and therefore so is bone china.
Of course it is amusing to use the word bone in any context :p
 
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deleted15807

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Yes, the superstitions still exists that consuming ground up rhino horn gives one a huge boner. It's only the rich which can afford such nonsense and it's seen as a status symbol. The same with Sharks, hunted for their fins only and left to drown to make a simple bowl of bloody soup.

After the mess they have made of some deep ocean reefs and atolls in the Sth China sea with their military expansion, does not seem things will change any time soon. They've learned from others who used prime Islands to test H and Atomic bombs in the pacific.

Oh exactly. The next mass extinction event is occurring right now. I find the debate over which country and which peoples will be on top of the other amusing if not academic as scientists issue dire warnings of unparalleled catastrophes await humanity as we wrestle for dominance on a planet with finite dwindling resources. Africa is the last continent not yet flattened by homo sapiens but it is well on its way. Laissez-faire capitalism has been adopted worldwide and built into it is a self-destruction mechanism that no one can stop.
 
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185248

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Round the world both China and Japan have been buying properties - 30 years ago there was great concern that Canada would be foreign owned - and the USA want far behind in relying on Chinese money.
The African Continent is a rip fruit ready to pick if any nation wanting to put money in has no qualms.
China will invest heavily.
China will reach its goal of being a top world player as the USA sinks into protectionism under Trump - the only way that China can get out of its current economic slump is to invest and monetarily rape Africa !.

Any government which can build 7 military/naval/air bases from in the middle of the ocean, from nothing, not even islands.

In under 12 months does not really care what any country thinks. Nor is it worried about where money will come from. It is a country of huge natural resources. It can be a world unto itself if it wishes.

 
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