Christian Porn?

[Calboner]

CRAIG: Is masturbation a sin?
Rabbi: Masturbation is forbidden according to Jewish law
​

CRAIG: Why?
Rabbi: Kabbalah is very explicit about the negative spiritual side-effects of masturbation. The idea is as follows: Your seed is the material by which you procreate; it is the genetic material within you that allows you the opportunity to partner with G-d.

When we let human seed go to waste, we squander G-d’s sacred and divine potential​

CRAIG: How’s that?
Rabbi: When we use it constructively, we channel the Divine sparks and energy within it correctly, and it comes to good use within the world via children who in turn will produce more children, in this way continuing the path of humanity. When we let it go to waste, however, we squander G-d’s sacred and divine potential. (This allows for what Kabbalah calls “Chitzonim,” negative forces loosely translated as “outsiders,” to snatch the energy and convert it for negative purposes.)

This rabbi is misrepresenting the facts. Kaballah is a mystical practice based on a certain body of writings that, as far as I know, is not accepted as authoritative by any of the main branches of Judaism. This is a Jewish view of masturbation, not the Jewish view, at least as far its basis in kaballah is concerned. Maybe there is a basis for it in the Talmud or the responsa literature, but this rabbi's argument doesn't show that.

 

[dreamer20]

What is the Jewish view on masturbation? - intimacy sexual issues

What is the Jewish view on masturbation?
by Rabbi Mendy Hecht

"Rabbi: Kabbalah is very explicit about the negative spiritual side-effects of masturbation. The idea is as follows: Your seed is the material by which you procreate; it is the genetic material within you that allows you the opportunity to partner with G-d."

Footnotes
1. See Genesis 38:7-10, Talmud tractate Nidah 13a

Can you indicate where it is supposedly prohibited in the Bible?

If you google "masturbation and the Bible" you will come up with, literally, 100's of citations.

Rabbi Mendy Hecht was giving Craig his interpretation of what happened in the specific case of the Hebrew Onan in Genesis 38. According to the tale Onan was killed, not for masturbation, but for refusing to inseminate his brother's widow Tamar and have children by her as the law prescribed.
It's funny how the Catholic Church and this Rabbi have tried to somehow say that this verse means that masturbation is prohibited.


http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/Judaism/sex.html

 

[matticus201]

But the idea of Christian pornography does seem to me oxymoronic. "Pornography" is from a Greek word that literally means "whore writing": by nature, it does not respect the bounds of marriage. A depiction of sex acts that respects the "framework" proposed on this site — in particular, the requirement that it be "instructional" — would not, it seems to me, be pornography. Pornography, as I understand it, is a picture or story or performance made for the purpose of generating sexual excitement in the spectator. If you depict sexual matters for the purpose of "[educating] married believers in how to achieve more sexual pleasure, intimacy, and closeness in their relationships" (as it says on the site), then you are not making pornography but something else — "Christian erotica" is probably what it should be called. Or maybe just "Sex-ed tapes for Christians."

It's interesting that you brought this up Cal. It reminded me of the eternal arguement about the merits of art between Aristotle and Plato in 5 century BC Greece. Plato's views here were used by the early Christians to demonize and ostracize those who participated in the City Dionysia, or the theatre festival. According to Plato, the only way theatrical performace was permissible was if it was instructional, moral, and promoted strong community values. (Of course, because of the theory of forms, Plato viewed this as impossible, so theatrical performance would always be demonic). I find it interesting that modern Christians are using the same basic arguement to justify pornography.

Incidentally, I am a Christian, and God knows I love porn, but I too think it's a bit odd to try and marry the two in an effort to justify the one. I mean, as Cal said, the basic premise of porn is to excite one sexually. They should just call a spade a spade. Makes me think of my childhood sunday school class. I'd go Sunday morning and see all the same people I'd seen Saturday night drunk and screwing at some party proclaiming their virginity. Hipocrital a bit, if you ask me.

However, if it helps people be more open about sexuality and aids in making conversation about sex between partners more candid, I say more Christian porn, please.

 

[rgboi84]

sex with a nun - Hardcore sex video - Tube8.com

Would this count as Christian porn?!?!?!? LOL! Very "Sacrilicious"!

 

[Principessa]

Christianity & Masturbation

Found in: Genesis 38:8-10

A story so eponymous, it gave way to its own neologism – onanism, an archaic term for masturbation. Basically, God kills Er. Why? We don’t really find out. However, in a stroke of good luck, Er’s father, Judah, has given you the right, nay the duty, to have sex with your dead brother’s wife. Onan is a bit apprehensive at first, but agrees to go through with this bizarre scheme to create a ‘true heir’ to Er. He begins to have sex with the girl, but at the last minute decides to pull out and spill “his seed upon the ground.” God is so irked he decides to kill Onan too, and thus nobody gets an heir. This story is the basis for the Christian condemnation of masturbation and birth control.

The moral of this story? In the words of Monty Python, “Every sperm is sacred…”

 

[Rowan Ravenseed]

We seem to have gotten a little off track here...... i thought the topic was Christian Porn?

Any-ways...... For may take on things.........

I'm Pagan.....so like all good pagans I worship false gods and sacrifice babies to my demonic masters,:saroll: other activities pagans enjoy as every-one knows are dancing around naked and having mass orgies with countless numbers of strangers :bukkake2:

Hmmm ok well maybe not...... However generally speaking (and mind you this is a generalization because in truth there are as many varied pagans as there are Christians, Jews, Hindus or Muslims) But one of the prevalent thought throughout paganism is that we worship nature and all things natural....... this of course extends to sex and masturbation......so for many of us sex sexual ideolagy and anything depicting sex really isn't that big of a deal......infact if its done well then we probably celebrate it.

Personally I like the fact that christianity is starting to become more progressive as i feel that Christs true msg is lost to so many becuase of all the dogma and guilt that is used to scare many christians into following christ.

Now if only we could get all you lovely warm hearted christians out there to stop slagging off other relegions and realise that Christ isn't the only way to enlightenment and spirituality is some-thing that is so personally individual that there cannot ever be only one way.

 

[NEWREBA]

We were told in religious ed classes, taught by laymen when we were in high shool, masturbation a big no no.

I was extrapolating masturbation worse then adultery.

This is something some of my Catholic friends and I have joked about.....and really do wonder about the theological underpinnings as to which is worse.

Both are, in the eyes of God, sins. Catholics delineate between venial and mortal sin.....the difference being severity of the sin. Some sin is inherently worse then other....it is a matter of degree, if that makes any sense. Some religions do not see the difference between venial and mortal sin.

I do not want to get into some religious/theological discussion as this is not the forum for this type of discussion.

If I remember my catholic catechism, it's a mortal sin to kill a little boy but only a venial sin if you sexually abuse him (for catholic priests only).

 

[nicenycdick]

This thread brings back some strange memories! I remember as a 14 year old, having to go to Confession every Saturday and tell the priest behind the curtain that I had committed the "sin of self-abuse"...masturbation, of course. It was one of the reasons that I stopped going to Confession...and receiving Communion. And led to a general dissatisfaction with the Church. So, while I now never go to church on Sundays, I jerk off every day! Somehow, I don't think it worked out the way Father O'Brian thought it would...

It also brings back memories of the time, when I was 16 and in the hospital for some tests, I was bathed by one of the nuns (it was a Catholic hospital)...but that is another story.

 

[Corius]

Whether the site is serious or intended to be humorous, it does indirectly point to many areas of sexuality which are never really discussed in an honest manner. If this site can do something about that by designating their concern as Christian Porn, more power to them.

Fortunately, even with too many churches which continue to pedal a lot of nonsense about sex, there are also many wise parents who do not burden their offspring with lots of do and don'ts. I count myself fortunate in having that kind of wise parents; I was never told that masturbation was sinful, unhealthy, or any such nonsense. Maybe they simply assumed that I would discover masturbation all by myself, maybe they reasoned that the relief jerking off can give might just keep me from unprepared sex and unplanned pregnancies. Frankly, we never discussed masturbation or any other sexual ace. They were right. My teen partner and I had the wonderful experience of learning by doing and over the last two years of high school we did it all.

The first great commandment is to love God with heart, soul, and mind. My mind simply could not grasp the notion a Creator who would make so many of us suffer from sexual frustration when a bit of relief was already at hand. For a horny teen the fact that he has a ready hand that can access his cock and give himself quieting (for the moment) relief can also lead the masturbating teen to love the God who puts the need and the relief in one package.

 

[prepstudinsc]

This is too bizarre for my taste. I read a couple of the articles and they twist Scripture passages in all sorts of ways. I hope that it's a joke site and that the people who run it are not serious.

 

[Drifterwood]

For what we are about to receive, may the Lord make us truly thankful

 

[Mr. Snakey]

This is too bizarre for my taste. I read a couple of the articles and they twist Scripture passages in all sorts of ways. I hope that it's a joke site and that the people who run it are not serious.

Either way its in poor taste. Its to be expected. Its open season on Christians anyway. When a muslim child can have a prayer break and a catholic child cant wear a cross to school somethings wrong. Our nation is sinking fast. The freedoms we hold so dearly are sadly slipping away.

 

[Phil Ayesho]

A story so eponymous, it gave way to its own neologism – onanism, an archaic term for masturbation. Basically, God kills Er. Why? We don’t really find out. However, in a stroke of good luck, Er’s father, Judah, has given you the right, nay the duty, to have sex with your dead brother’s wife. Onan is a bit apprehensive at first, but agrees to go through with this bizarre scheme to create a ‘true heir’ to Er. He begins to have sex with the girl, but at the last minute decides to pull out and spill “his seed upon the ground.” God is so irked he decides to kill Onan too, and thus nobody gets an heir.

God didn't kill Er.... Er made a deal with God that God would give him a male heir if Er went and committed genocide on a neighboring tribe...
But Er gets killed in battle before God can make good.

God COMMANDS Onan to screw the dead kings wife... to produce said heir ( this is in a part of the bible BEFORE the idea of heaven and life everlasting came about... So God was not gonna have to explain to Er... he just had to look good in front of the living. )
This is a command to commit adultery...

God offers to disguise Onan to look like the king, taking a break from battle to have a quick screw.

This is God commanding Onan to bear false witness


Onan balks, and God says, that' no problem, I will simply fill you with an overpowering lust.

This is God denying Onan free will.

Onan breaks away, runs outside and beats off top keep God from compelling him further ( apparently Onan was not a repeat performer)

So God kills him.

The stupid thing about the no-jacking off thing is this..
Number one... God killed him, not for beating off, but for thwarting God's will... jacking off was incidental.

Secondly... Onan was killed for trying to KEEP his covenant with God.

This is a perfect illustration of why the Bible is totally amoral.

Onan tried to keep his covenant... and God damned him for failure to brake his covenant on God's whim...
God proves he is not omniscient ( didn't see the king's dying coming... didn't see Onan's rebellion coming...) and it proves God is not omnipotent... ( couldn't just make the queen preggers with Er's child without Onan's help?)

And it proves that God is not moral. He asks Onan to break several commandments for the express purpose of covering up his own fuckup with a lie.


oh, yeah... the bible is a real source of moral example....

 

[Calboner]

Rabbi Mendy Hecht was giving Craig his interpretation of what happened in the specific case of the Hebrew Onan in Genesis 38. According to the tale Onan was killed, not for masturbation, but for refusing to inseminate his brother's widow Tamar and have children by her as the law prescribed.
It's funny how the Catholic Church and this Rabbi have tried to somehow say that this verse means that masturbation is prohibited.

I looked up the source of the previously quoted passage by Rabbi Hecht (I thought "Mendy" was a woman's name, but it turns out this one is indeed a male) and I found that, even though the passage argues from Kabbalah, there was a footnote citing the Talmud, specifically the Babylonian Talmud, Tractate Niddah 13. So he has got Jewish law on his side, not just Kabbalah. The chapter that he cites quotes, more than once, a statement of Rabbi Eliezer's prohibiting touching your penis when peeing ("Whoever holds his membrum when he makes water is as though he had brought a flood on the world"). It also quotes Rabbi Johanan in support of the now familiar interpretation of the Biblical verse about Onan:

But why all these precautions? — Because otherwise one might emit semen in vain, and R. Johanan stated: Whosoever emits semen in vain deserves death, for it is said in Scripture: And the thing which he did was evil in the sight of the Lord, and He slew him also.
​

There's your citation of Genesis 38:10 in support of a prohibition on masturbation, or rather of "spilling semen in vain" -- which would include, of course, withdrawing before ejaculation during sexual intercourse. I had no idea that such a (mis-)use of that passage was in the Talmud!

 

[invisibleman]

I want to see Mormon gay porn...where Ben Affleck and Matt Damon take off their sacred undies and sleep together.

 

[Principessa]

Either way its in poor taste. Its to be expected. Its open season on Christians anyway. When a muslim child can have a prayer break and a catholic child cant wear a cross to school somethings wrong. Our nation is sinking fast. The freedoms we hold so dearly are sadly slipping away.

AMEN! I quite agree.


Latin Vulgate Bible
Genesis 38:10 - et idcirco percussit eum Dominus quod rem detestabilem faceret

King James Version (KSV)
Genesis 38:10 - And the thing which he did displeased the LORD: wherefore he slew him also.

So was it the disobeying of the word of God that got him killed or the spilling of the seed? Or both?

 

[SilverSoldier]

I am I guess also a Christian. I also like porn. But as you said I don't think you can mix the two. If you think of it the bible teaches that every evil thought is sin. So if you and your "Christian" wife or husband are watching it and you think of having sex with that person on the DVD then it is sin. So I really can't see it working.

IMHO

Cheers

D

With all due respect, and I'm TRULY not trying to get in your face, how does anyone here (not just you) who even remotely claims their a Christian post pornographic pics of themselves at this site? Is this the exception, or are you truly not a practicing Christian? Raised Christian but no longer bothers? Just too many questions in my head...

As for the Christian Porn website, if it's not a joke, it's pretty sick. It seems to rub against everything a Christian is usually taught about sex. that being, sex is not a subject of discussion. We just pretend we don't like it and don't do it....

 

[SilverSoldier]

I want to see Mormon gay porn...where Ben Affleck and Matt Damon take off their sacred undies and sleep together.

The closest you'll get to that is an offbeat film called "Latter Days." I've seen it and it's quite good. Nice shots of both guys, but nothing too direct. Check it out.

 

[SilverSoldier]

Christianity & Masturbation

Found in: Genesis 38:8-10

A story so eponymous, it gave way to its own neologism – onanism, an archaic term for masturbation. Basically, God kills Er. Why? We don’t really find out. However, in a stroke of good luck, Er’s father, Judah, has given you the right, nay the duty, to have sex with your dead brother’s wife. Onan is a bit apprehensive at first, but agrees to go through with this bizarre scheme to create a ‘true heir’ to Er. He begins to have sex with the girl, but at the last minute decides to pull out and spill “his seed upon the ground.” God is so irked he decides to kill Onan too, and thus nobody gets an heir. This story is the basis for the Christian condemnation of masturbation and birth control.

The moral of this story? In the words of Monty Python, “Every sperm is sacred…”

The story of Onan is about WITHDRAWAL, a form of birth control, NOT masturbation. I've also heard this from all the high ranking church guys gorwing up and it NEVER added up to masturbation. Despite that, it's about the only real scripture in the liturgy that gets close to masturbation.

The idea here, people, as far as I can see it is about selfishness and lust. Onan was vehement about giving Er HIS heir. Who would want to do that in those days in that culture?? NO ONE. So he did what he felt he had to. As for the reasons why "God" did what he did to Er and Onan is really debatable. What God of love is that vengeful? I mean, c'mon, are you really going to believe that all powerful, all merciful love GOD is really as full of bullshit as any other stupid human on the planet??? God is love. The God in this story doesn't seem to love anyone.

Anything can be a weapon. A word, a body, a penis, a vagina--we've read all the headlines that prove that. It's not about a RULE. The more rules we make the more rule breakers we create. It's about not harming yourself (such as addictions) and not harming others. It's about being at peace with yourself and God. When that happens, you live a spiritual life not based on bullshit rules. You live because you value peace for yourself and others.

Who gives a shit about masturbation. It's not wrong if you're not addicted to it, not using it as a weapon and not destroying your ownself.

Just my thoughts.

 

[Calboner]

So was it the disobeying of the word of God that got him killed or the spilling of the seed? Or both?

Actually, the text does not even imply that Onan disobeys God, only that he disobeys his father, who commands him to impregnate his late brother's widow. So his sin could be disobeying his father, or refusing to beget an heir for his brother, or withdrawing before ejaculation, or many other things. The text by itself doesn't tell us much.