Church and state

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by DC_DEEP, Oct 7, 2005.

  1. DC_DEEP

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    For those interested in the subject, check out the link below. It has lots of information, links to internal and external pages and sites. It will take some time to get a good feel for the website, so please take your time and read as much of it as you can.

    Theocracy watch
     
  2. surferboy

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    The Church has no right being involved in our politics. In other countries, like Canada and Britain, if you use God, yer shrugged off, and no one takes you seriously. Why must we be so fuckin stupid?
     
  3. Dr. Dilznick

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    In regards to politics and religion, how do you view the theory of seperation of Church and State, and how can this employed theory not be antithetical to the whole concept of the Abrahamic faiths; in that how can a God that rules over all then be relegated to a corner of a society and not allowed to rule over said society? So as a logical conclusion, shouldn't all believers of one of these faiths support theocracy, and if not, are their personal faiths thus to be regarded as half-assed?
     
  4. Dr Rock

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    bingo.
     
  5. Cicero77

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    It's true that here in Britain the policy makers and media generally ignore what the Christian / Catholic public might want.

    Although, we have quite a lot of Political Correctness here so the media and government are very quick to defend the rights or feelings of minority religions (e.g. Islam, Judaism, Sikhism, etc.). Whereas Christianity has been somewhat exluded from this protection up til now. (Hope this doesn't sound like I'm bashing minorites cos that's not what I mean. And I'm not Christian myself)

    We are however starting to get a mobilised, largely right-wing Christian 'fundamentalist' movement here (as I understand you have in the US?).

    There was an instance about a year ago where a theatre play was forced to shut down after a large group of Sikhs angrily protested about it's content being offensive to their beliefs.

    The Christian groups here were inspired by their success at forcing censorship and so when Jerry Springer - The Opera was screened on TV here they flooded the BBC with complaints and got an apology and now that show looks like it will struggle to find many theatres that will host the show in case Christian groups protest again...

    Sorry for the long post but I'm against political correctness, using religion as a basis for law-making and most censorship, so this kinda pee'd me off!

    Gee that's my first serious-minded post here I think! :crazy:
     
  6. DC_DEEP

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    I view the theory of separation of church and state as such: the state shall not make any laws establishing a state religion, or suppressing an individual's right to worship or not worship, as they so choose - sorta nearly kinda what was set out in the Establishment Clause of Article One of the Amendments to the Constitution of the United States.

    I am not a follower of any of the Abrahamic faiths; nor do I follow any other established religion. If those followers do feel that theocracy is their desire and destiny, then they are in the wrong country. Simply because they believe it should be so, does not make it so. Their personal faiths are of no concern of mine, except in that they may not require me to practice their faith.

    Um, how about this: if the play offends you, don't go to see it? How fucking stupid. Many christian, jewish, muslim, and other church beliefs and practices are offensive to me; as long as I am not required to participate, then I don't really give a flying fuck.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Cicero77
    @Oct 7 2005, 01:58 PM
    The Christian groups here were inspired by their success at forcing censorship and so when Jerry Springer - The Opera was screened on TV here they flooded the BBC with complaints and got an apology and now that show looks like it will struggle to find many theatres that will host the show in case Christian groups protest again...
    [post=349699]Quoted post[/post]​
    [/quote]
    Ditto. How absolutely puerile and moronic these groups are to say "I find it offensive, therefore, I do not want you to have the right to view it otherwise." Even more puerile and moronic for government and theatre owners to cave in to their incessant whining.
     
  7. Cicero77

    Cicero77 Member

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    Yeah it&#39;s a funny thing when someone feels the need to have something destroyed or suppressed because it&#39;s very existence challenges/affronts their religious belief (even if it is not pushed in their face - like a play or a book).

    Like someone once said, if god or a religion can&#39;t handle a little person saying things about it then it must be in terrible trouble. Surely God/religion can take such knocks?

    I think live and let live - as long as things don&#39;t totally encroach on you, then let others do what they want in their own little bit of space in this world.

    Like I find the smell of B.O. offensive but if I choose to travel by tube then I&#39;m forced to inhale lungfuls of it hehe. I can&#39;t ban sweaties from the tube or enforce deodorant use before boarding. It&#39;s a free society innit. ;)

    Phew - I&#39;m spent&#33;
     
  8. Dr Rock

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    you&#39;re both missing the point. the very NATURE of religious nuts is the conviction that their religion is literally more important than anything else in the world, including other people&#39;s freedom. the concept of "live and let live" is beyond their comprehension; you&#39;re wasting your time by trying to articulate it.
     
  9. SpeedoGuy

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    Sad but true. And that mentality seems to be gaining traction in America. What&#39;s worse, if one dares to debate the role of faith in politics then religious zealots simply interpret the debate as an attack. And that only serves to re-inforce their pre-conceived expectations that they&#39;ll be attacked for their fath.

    SG
     
  10. Shelby

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    For what it&#39;s worth not all conservatives are bible thumpers. I for one am an atheist.
     
  11. DC_DEEP

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    Not a point I have missed, Dr R... in fact, that kinda IS my point in starting this thread. My other point is, those of us with a shred of intelligence, regardless of religious beliefs or lack thereof, must be diligent in thwarting the rising tide of theocrats. Simply dismissing them as nuts gives them an inroads to achieving their sick and misguided goals. Those of us who truly believe in democracy must stay informed, stay active, and educate and question others.

    I really don&#39;t care if they view my dissent as an "attack." I refuse to allow them to force their twisted views of religion upon me. If civil disobedience is what is required of me, then that is my patriotic duty.

    <!--QuoteBegin-Shelby
    @Oct 7 2005, 06:28 PM
    For what it&#39;s worth not all conservatives are bible thumpers. I for one am an atheist.
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    [/quote]
    Well said, Shelby. Too many people assume that since I am a screaming supporter of citizens&#39; constitutional rights, then I must be a liberal. Well, I am a social super-liberal and fiscal super-conservative. I don&#39;t regard anyone as a "bible-thumper" unless they give me reason to - like saying "I think that play is offensive, you must shut down production." An intelligent person would say "I think that play is offensive. I probably should not buy a ticket." Likewise with other social issues, "My religion says homosexuality is wrong, so homosexuals should have no rights," as opposed to "My religion says homosexuality is wrong, so I will not be a homosexual." Perhaps I am just dense, but I don&#39;t understand why even the wacko nuts can&#39;t understand the difference.
     
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