Church Hurt - Has it happened to you?

[Freddie53]

Some clarifications on previous posts.

Reformed Church in America is in the Calvin tradition. The founder of all reformed churches in the world was John Calvin. Many denominations trace their theology back to John Calvin, Presbyterian churches, Reformed churches, and The Church of Scotland to name a few.

The Protestant Reformation had three major movements. Calvinist, Anglican, and Lutheran. Martin Luther was the founder of the Lutheran movement which was the first Protestant movement and first Protestant church to be organized out of the Roman Catholic Church.

All Anglican churches including the Episcopal church in America trace their beginnings back to King Henry the eighth. The Wesleyan movement came a bit later. The various Methodist churches trace their history to John and Charles Wesley who were Anglican priest. The Methoidst church was formed as a resuult of the American Revolution as the King had called all the Anglican priests back to England during the Revolutionary War. The basic beliefs of the Methodist chruch are Anglican except most Methodist churches are as liturgical as most Anglican churches.

About homosexuality. The United Church of Christ, not to be confused with the Church of Christ which has most of its members in the southern part of the United States, does not consider homosexuality to be a sin. The United Church of Christ traces his history back to the Puritans. The Unitarian Church which also traces its history back to the Puritan church also does not believe that homosexuality is a sin.

The Episcopal Church is extremely divided on the issue. Apparently most Episcopal churches accept homosexuals with open arms.

The United Methoidst Church is divided as well. The doctrine of the church states that "homosexuality is not compatible with Christian tradition and experience." However, in most Methodist churches, homosexuals are welcomed to the local church.

I know that the Presbyterian Church USA is divided on this issue. Some Presbyterian churches have left the Presbyterian church for being too gay friendly in issues of faith and practic

 

[Mr. Snakey]

A very good point made in that we are all Human and not perfect by any means.

 

[B_tallbig]

A very good point made in that we are all Human and not perfect by any means.

The real question is why god ( a perfect being) create imperfect creatures?

 

[Mr. Snakey]

The real question is why god ( a perfect being) create imperfect creatures?

''Knowledge comes with death's release''

 

[Principessa]

Thank you for this explanation Naughty, it clears up a lot for me as I had definitely misunderstood Jason_els previous post.

This may help in explaining the term "Reformed".The “Reformed”name refers to adherence to the biblical principles set down by the Protestant Reformation of the 16th century. Our spiritual fathers include Martin Luther, John Calvin, and John Knox.

I am a member of the Presbyterian Church in America. This is the more conservative Southern branch of the Presbyterian Church. The home of the United Presbyterian Church was very near to Asheville, NC. We left them in the late 70's to join the Reformed Presbyterian Church and later the PCA.

Though many associate Reformed with the idea of Scotch Presbyterianism the doctrine was preached in many countries. The "Puritans" went to Holland in order to worship this form of religion unhampered. The United States government is in many ways based on the Presbyterian form of Church government. Like our goverment it has three branches which serve to balance the power within the church at large and within local congregations .We have had three pastors in the last ten years resign because they had grown up under other forms of church government and upon realizing that the Session or church elders could override the pastor's decisions they were to say the very least uncomfortable.

That's what I had trouble explaining in the Scientolgy thread. IMHO the lack of a hierarchy, conferenc, or archdiocese in nondenominational faiths as well as many Baptist and Pentecostal factions is a bad thing.

 

[Principessa]

The real question is why god ( a perfect being) create imperfect creatures?

Just for the fun of it.:tongue:

 

[T-Lex]

Has anyone ever attended a Unitarian Universalist church service? I've been contemplating attending a service or two just to check them out, but I thought I'd ask for the perspective of folks who currently attend this church, or have attended in the past.

I was raised in the southern Church of Christ that Freddie53 references in his post, but haven't attended in many years, primarily because of their stance on homosexuality. Unitarian Universalist seems to be more accepting of all people, so I was thinking it might be a good place to explore and express my spirituality.

Any thoughts on this church?

 

[Act2_Begins_Now]

I have experienced this in the last three years and no longer attend church because of my experiences. Not because I don't believe there are not decent churches and leaders but just that I find myself geographically a very spiritually dead area. A lot of false teachings. I have learned to embrace that the God I serve is a personal God and my teaching is now one on one.

I attended the two mega churches that are in my area, both are nationally known. The first one materialistically corrupt, just writing about it right now turns my stomach. He embezzled over $250 billion (it may be million) dollars from founding church that bank rolled his ministry here and also a huge radio network. I know this man personally and was close to him for a time, having no idea all of what was going on behind the scenes. The pastor has been time and time again accused of sexual misconduct but has never been removed from his position. He would leer at my breasts in such a perverse way. This rattled me to the core.

One might say I jumped from the kettle to the frying pan with the other mega church. Attended there for probably close to four years. Was very involved. Led a women's group with the pastor's wife, attended church no less than three/four times a week, taught sunday school, staffed the nursery and was a part of the helps ministry (those called in for a crisis). The church hurt me because they failed to hold my abusive husband accountable for his actions. Not only did they ignore his behaviors but kept me shackled to the church not allowing me to involve the secular world. In essence they prevented me from contacting the local law enforcement, seek help from a crisis center, see a counselor, etc. They insisted that all of the help should come from them. They put my daughter and I in extremely dangerous situations that could have cost us our health, if not our lives. Their answer to the problem ... my PMS or perhaps needing to pray more. ~sheesh~

 

[Act2_Begins_Now]

The real question is why god ( a perfect being) create imperfect creatures?

Why would He create a bunch of pull string dolls?

 

[naughty]

This is what is written on my church's website

What We Believe​

Everybody believes something, and we’re no different. We confess and believe the historic teachings of Christianity, such as the Apostle’s Creed and the Nicene Creed. But more specifically, we are a church that was born of the Reformed tradition. Rev. Jim Osterhouse, in his book Faith Unfolded, has done a great job conveying a concise statement of what Reformed Christians believe. A good way to remember it is with the acrostic F.A.I.T.H.​

​

• <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; COLOR: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center">Fallen Humanity. We believe the Bible when it teaches that Adam (Genesis 3:1-7), the first man created by God, represented all of humanity (Romans 5:12). In this representative role he disobeyed God by eating from the tree of the forbidden fruit. When he disobeyed he fell into a condition that the Bible refers to as sin. It became a part of his nature, and he began passing that nature on to his descendents (Romans 3:23), who, in turn have passed it on to their children. All around us we see rampant sinful behavior, which is part of the evidence of humanity’s fallen state. Traditionally, this has been called “Total Depravity”. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; COLOR: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center">Adopted By God. We believe the Bible when it teaches that, because of humanity’s fallen condition (Romans 3:9-18), the only way we can to get back to God is if He does something to bring us into relationship with Him. The Bible tells us in Ephesians 1 (and other places!) that God took the first step and adopted some of us long before we were born; long before we could do anything to make ourselves appear worthy of His affection. Even as a child, when he is adopted, does not initiate the process, neither can a man initiate the process with God. God chooses him. Traditionally, this has been known as “Unconditional Election”. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; COLOR: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center">Intentional Atonement. We believe the Bible when it teaches that Jesus’ death was purposeful and intentional; i.e. it accomplished salvation for His people (John 6:37-40; 10:17-18). He did what He set out to do. He atoned for (covered over) the sins of His people. His death did not provide an opportunity for salvation, it actually provided salvation for His chosen ones. He died to pay for the sins of a specific group of people which Scripture refers to as “elect” Matthew 24:22), “chosen” (Psalm 33:12), “my sheep” (John 10:14-15), etc. Traditionally, this has been known as “Limited Atonement”. <LI class=MsoNormal style="MARGIN-BOTTOM: 12pt; COLOR: white; TEXT-ALIGN: center">Transformed By The Holy Spirit. We believe the Bible when it teaches that once the atonement has been made it can only be applied by the Holy Spirit (Ezekiel 36:26). This means that God first changes the heart of the sinner so he can respond to His love (Jeremiah 17:9,10). He gives us a new heart which enables us to respond to the good news of the gospel. Traditionally, this teaching has been known as “Irresistible Grace.”
• Held By God. We believe the Bible when it teaches that God doesn’t save part way; i.e. we do not believe we can slip from the hands of our gracious, loving Father. Some call this “once saved, always saved” (John 10:24-30). Traditionally, it has been known as “the Perseverance of the Saints”.

In a nutshell, the Reformed tradition embraces the Biblical notion of an all powerful, loving God, who has graciously provided salvation through Christ for people who did not deserve it. We call that AMAZING GRACE.​

​

 

[Principessa]

Some clarifications on previous posts.

Reformed Church in America is in the Calvin tradition. The founder of all reformed churches in the world was John Calvin. Many denominations trace their theology back to John Calvin, Presbyterian churches, Reformed churches, and The Church of Scotland to name a few. The Protestant Reformation had three major movements. Calvinist, Anglican, and Lutheran. Martin Luther was the founder of the Lutheran movement which was the first Protestant movement and first Protestant church to be organized out of the Roman Catholic Church.< ---- These are the denominations and their descendants, which I tend to refer to as real religions. :redface: I'm not saying thats right, I'm just trying to explain myself.

All Anglican churches including the Episcopal church in America trace their beginnings back to King Henry the eighth. The Wesleyan movement came a bit later. The various Methodist churches trace their history to John and Charles Wesley who were Anglican priest. The Methoidst church was formed as a resuult of the American Revolution as the King had called all the Anglican priests back to England during the Revolutionary War. The basic beliefs of the Methodist church are Anglican except most Methodist churches are as liturgical as most Anglican churches.

The United Methoidst Church is divided as well. The doctrine of the church states that "homosexuality is not compatible with Christian tradition and experience." However, in most Methodist churches, homosexuals are welcomed to the local church.

I know that the Presbyterian Church USA is divided on this issue. Some Presbyterian churches have left the Presbyterian church for being too gay friendly in issues of faith and practic

I am sad to say many are leaving the United Methodist church for being too gay as well. :frown1: We seem to be a bit wishy-washy on the topic of homosexuality. I think it would help if the United Methodist Conference would come up with a definitive statement that all churches were to follow.

I think the rift in which United Methodist churches welcome GLBT's into their congregation and pulpit can be traced back to the merging of the Evangelical United Brethren with the Methodist church in 1968. As near as I can tell the EUB were similar in practice to Pentecostals. The new generation of United Methodist churches seem to be the ones that can embrace the general conferences desire to be "Open hearts, open minds, open doors."


The United Brethren Church

The Church of the United Brethren in Christ is an evangelicalChristiandenomination based in Huntington, Indiana.

The church is a Protestant denomination of episcopal structure, Armenian theology, with roots in the Mennonite and German Reformed communities of 18th centuryPennsylvania, as well as close ties to Methodism. It was founded by Martin Boehm and is the first American denomination that was not transplanted from Europe.

In 1889, a controversy over membership in secret societies, such as the Freemasons, the proper way to modify the church's constitution, and other issues split the United Brethren into majority liberal and minority conservative blocs, the latter of which was led by Bishop Milton Wright (father of the Wright Brothers).

The majority faction merged with the Evangelical Church in 1946 to form a new denomination known as the Evangelical United Brethren Church (EUB). This in turn merged in 1968 with The Methodist Church to form the United Methodist Church (UMC).

The Wright-led faction continues today as a denomination of about 550 congregations, with 47,300 members in fifteen countries. Its headquarters are in Huntington, Indiana, where it operates Huntington University and The Graduate School of Christian Ministries.

 

[Osiris]

I have seen it in many faiths and remember people in my faith pointing and saying rude things about the televangelists, the baptists, etc. Then we have the sex abuse scandals and the mishandling of them by the church. Yes I know church hurt first hand and it is why I became a Knight of Columbus. to support those of true service and stature to the faith community.

Latest little bit of college church hurt. ORU and it's president (AKA Oral Roberts' son, Richard). All I can say is this is the son of the man who locked himself in a tower and said that God would kill him if he didn't raise several million dollars. Needless to say he didn't die as a result of that edict.

Money corrupts and it especially corrupts those in the "church for cash" business.

Its not Christ that turns me off to regular worship. Its Christians.

You ain't NEVER lied friend.

 

[36DD]

Yes. I no longer go to church because the hypocrisy of it's members. Jesus said to love others and to love sinners. We are all sinners. Jesus said to love them and sit with them. When I told elders in my church how unhappy I was in my sham of a marriage and would be getting divorced, they shunned me and gossiped about me. I will never set foot in a church again. I feel their behavior was despicable and unwarranted. I have not lost my faith in God, but I have no faith in the "love or good intentions" of these so-called "Christians".

 

[B_Think_Kink]

Yup Religion itself. Turned me right off from it. How can anyone want to live under something that you have to dedicate all that time to. Where is the proof you go to heaven, where is the proof of a god, where is the proof that there is a hell. Prove it to me and I'll believe you. Furthermore, I refuse to believe in anything that doesn't accept who I am for all I am. Bisexual born and proud.

 

[Osiris]

Yes. I no longer go to church because the hypocrisy of it's members. Jesus said to love others and to love sinners. We are all sinners. Jesus said to love them and sit with them. When I told elders in my church how unhappy I was in my sham of a marriage and would be getting divorced, they shunned me and gossiped about me. I will never set foot in a church again. I feel their behavior was despicable and unwarranted. I have not lost my faith in God, but I have no faith in the "love or good intentions" of these so-called "Christians".

Exactly why I didn't follow my families past. I'm not going to say I'm perfect, especially when it comes to faith, but I don't NEED a church or a bunch of zealots to tell me who I can love, what I can do, and how I should live.

Yup Religion itself. Turned me right off from it. How can anyone want to live under something that you have to dedicate all that time to. Where is the proof you go to heaven, where is the proof of a god, where is the proof that there is a hell. Prove it to me and I'll believe you. Furthermore, I refuse to believe in anything that doesn't accept who I am for all I am. Bisexual born and proud.

Your bisexuality and your uniqueness are what make you beautiful and I for one will support and fight for your indiviuality if that is what it would take. I'll also show nothing but love and respect for you.

 

[36DD]

Yup Religion itself. Turned me right off from it. How can anyone want to live under something that you have to dedicate all that time to. Where is the proof you go to heaven, where is the proof of a god, where is the proof that there is a hell. Prove it to me and I'll believe you. Furthermore, I refuse to believe in anything that doesn't accept who I am for all I am. Bisexual born and proud.

A true Christian (I'm just using my own faith here) would accept and love you for who you are. LOVE is unconditional. About the proof...sometimes when one is angry by the treatment they have received from "religious" people they shut out anything that one has to offer as proof. I know an excellent book, but for some reason the title escapes me (guess I'm getting old! lol). I can try to find it around here and pm you with it if you want...let me know.

 

[B_Think_Kink]

A true Christian (I'm just using my own faith here) would accept and love you for who you are. LOVE is unconditional. About the proof...sometimes when one is angry by the treatment they have received from "religious" people they shut out anything that one has to offer as proof. I know an excellent book, but for some reason the title escapes me (guess I'm getting old! lol). I can try to find it around here and pm you with it if you want...let me know.

Anger is not the word. Hate is. I hate organized religion, and I don't hate a lot of things. I dislike the fact I was brought up with no choice in my own faith, i dislike that I was forced to go to church every sunday until I was 18, I dislike that it was such as waste of my life and I got nothing out of it, but I hate how people have to pay into organized religion to get anything out of it.

Ill respect anyones right to have a religion, I'll rebel if you try and place it on me.

 

[whatireallywant]

Has anyone ever attended a Unitarian Universalist church service? I've been contemplating attending a service or two just to check them out, but I thought I'd ask for the perspective of folks who currently attend this church, or have attended in the past.

I was raised in the southern Church of Christ that Freddie53 references in his post, but haven't attended in many years, primarily because of their stance on homosexuality. Unitarian Universalist seems to be more accepting of all people, so I was thinking it might be a good place to explore and express my spirituality.

Any thoughts on this church?

I have attended a UU church - several, in fact (while visiting Pittsburgh, two in Indianapolis, and one in San Antonio).

I also have experienced "Church Hurt". I grew up going to Baptist and then Church of God. I was starting to get uncomfortable with them in my early teens when they started preaching against rock music and dancing, since that was the only real interest I had left (all of my other interests were "just for boys"). But then, I found out that the church not only approved of, but demanded, the sexism of the people who were not letting me pursue my other interests, and they wanted it to determine the rest of my life - get married, obey my husband, stay at home, and have children - whether I want to do these things or not! The only of those things I have really ever thought about wanting to do "someday" is get married (but if I don't, well, I don't). But I never wanted children, and certainly didn't want to stay at home, and especially didn't want to be "obedient" to my husband if we want different things! There should be some compromise on his side too, NOT just mine!

The other thing that bothered me was that they thought that anyone who didn't follow their religion was going to hell. I just couldn't see a loving God sending a good person who happened to be Jewish, or Buddhist, etc. etc... to hell for all eternity! That just seemed cruel to me. I mean, if I had the powers of God, I wouldn't even send evil people to hell. I'd just have them die and that's the end of it.

After not going to church at all from age 17 to age 39 I decided to give the Unitarian Universalist church a try. I knew it was more open minded about the above mentioned issues than other churches, and was ok with my doubts about much of religion (the supernatural aspects and that sort of thing). I don't go as much as I did about 3 years ago, but it's not because I'm uncomfortable with it.

As for the UU church and gay rights, the minister at the church I most often went to in Indiana performed his first marriage ceremony for two men (Indiana does not recognize the marriage, but the church does.)

 

[SpeedoGuy]

The other thing that bothered me was that they thought that anyone who didn't follow their religion was going to hell. I just couldn't see a loving God sending a good person who happened to be Jewish, or Buddhist, etc. etc... to hell for all eternity!

Agreed. That's a God I'd fear but not want to worship.

 

[36DD]

Anger is not the word. Hate is. I hate organized religion, and I don't hate a lot of things. I dislike the fact I was brought up with no choice in my own faith, i dislike that I was forced to go to church every sunday until I was 18, I dislike that it was such as waste of my life and I got nothing out of it, but I hate how people have to pay into organized religion to get anything out of it.

Ill respect anyones right to have a religion, I'll rebel if you try and place it on me.

I hope you didn't take me the wrong way...You said if anyone could prove it you'd believe it...that's why I offered the book (don't worry, it's not the bible and I won't thump you over the head with it), if you want to read it, fine, if not, that's fine too...I'm not going to try and place anything on you. I hate organized religion too and the hypocrisy that goes along with it.