CIA Ran Secret Prison in War on Terror

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by Lex, Jun 8, 2007.

  1. Lex

    Lex
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    And in other news: You're still stupid if you believe what they tell you.



    MORE.
     
  2. DC_DEEP

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    Not especially big news, Lex. We've known about secret prisons/interrogation centers for a few years now, but the CIA and the US government alternate between two pat answers: "there are no secret prisons", and "oh, gee, thanks a lot; by revealing that we have secret prisons, you have seriously compromised our national security."

    Some locations have been known for some time, some locations were speculated, none were confirmed by our government.

    The truly frightening part is that, in some cases, detainees are held without being told of the charges against them, without being able to confront their accusers, without access to legal assistance, and without the families being notified.
     
  3. D_Neeson Niceone

    D_Neeson Niceone New Member

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    Kinda fishy, but hey at least their not running around blowing people up in the name of God. I wonder who's leaking all the info?

    And besides, the US needs to get some brains about this stuff. Don't have your intelligence agency run "secret prisons", it sounds too suspicious and gives everyone's imagination a stir in the direction of the gulag or equivalent. Even if your secret prisons are a notch off boarding school and you just don't want their location known, you will still get all the bad PR and conspiracy theories stirred up. Still better than the alternative. But the US should persuade allies in the ME or elsewhere to run the prisons, not the CIA. That way you have a place to put the bad guys and you don't get all the radical press.
     
  4. Freddie53

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    Why oh why did our nation have to give up our system of justice and run thinks like the Soviets and the Chinese did at the he9gut of the Cold War?

    We have become liike them.

    Lex this may be old news to some, but we need to keep having this kind of information brought up again for people to read. We have become numb to what our government is doing. And the great American Republic so admired by the world for decades is skating on thinner and thinner ice as each year goes by.
     
  5. PussyWellington

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    'Yonder sits the Fourth Estate, and they are more important than them all.'
     
  6. D_N Flay Table

    D_N Flay Table New Member

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    Don't worry, as we give up our liberties, and the constitution is trampled by george bush, we will all soon be living in fear, not to mention living in a police state.

    America it was a great country.
     
  7. STYLYUNG

    STYLYUNG New Member

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    Why do you fellows worry so much about how the people who want to kill us are treated. Don't forget that they killed better than three thousand Americans on our soil on September 11, 2001. It is better to stop them by any means before they get here. At least we are not beheading or shooting our prisoners such as these radical muslims are doing to our troops that they kidnap. Allah has told them to destroy the United States and the are going to do their damndest to accomplish it. What if that JFK Airport plot had been carried out last week? Get with it! We are in great National danger! To hell with how those animals are treated. It took just nineteen of them to kill the three thousand in New York and Washinton!
     
  8. D_N Flay Table

    D_N Flay Table New Member

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    The problem with how we treat our 'enemies' is becoming how we treat our citizens.
    do a search for 'free speech zones' and 'police state' on youtube.
    Our liberties are being taken away from us everyday.
    the JFK plot was just a distraction.
    I really think those people they caught are just 'patsy's' to cover up something else the goverment is doing.
     
  9. Lex

    Lex
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    Because I believe that detainees have rights and should be treated humanely simply because they are human. Who is to even say that everyone we have detained is even someone we should be worried about?

    Obama gave a great answer on "good vs. evil" (quote Bush) and how if we allow ourselves to see things so simply it puts us in a position to not question our own behavior.

    Two wrongs do not make a right.

    Who has forgotten? Being humane and treating supposed criminals with civility has nothing to do with short- or long-term memory.

    So you justify the atrocities we have done by saying that they have done worse. Wow.

    Further--our actions right now have made us LESS safe. It has ruined our global standing as a peaceful nation, undermined our credibility and created MORE terrorists.

    But keep you spouting that nonsense.

    Jesus, have you been brainwashed. If for ONE second we got out of their lands and stopped bullying their governments, they would not give a rat's ass what we do or what we have. They are angry at us because WE are in their countries bullying and threatening them for no other reason than our OWN greedy interests. 9-11 did not happen because we are the land of the free--it happened because we have become bullies of the worst kind.
     
  10. PussyWellington

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    Are you for real? The only way you, or most American citizens would be killed by a Muslim is if you were drafted and sent to the Middle East. How many murders are committed in your country? How many people are killed by Doctors and Big Pharma? The dangers are much closer to home.
     
  11. D_Neeson Niceone

    D_Neeson Niceone New Member

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    Well, obviously you have to do something. You can't just say "well we found out your sending explosives to destroy an oil refinery, but imprisioning you is unpopular so we're just going to let you go and hope you don't kill anyone". But you don't have to rip off fingers and starve people either. But that's not what's happening in these prisons. They hold the prisoners there and use US-approved (incredibly lax) interrogation methods. If I was a prisoner of war and could chose any prison in history to stay in, I would chose an American prision without a second of hesitation.

    So I guess the bigger question is: why is the CIA running "secret" prisions? What is the need for the secrecy? Is it because the CIA wants to do nasty things they don't want others to find out about? That would hold some serious consequences - and I'm pretty sure if dirty interregation is to be done, there are other countries willing to volunteer for that task. Maybe they don't want protestors around to hold up traffic or be in the way? That's certainly understandable. And of course you don't want to bring them to the US - that's a real mess. So is it really such a big surprise? I don't think so.

    Also, where did this notion of prisoners of war having a right to a laywer come from? That's for citizens. You don't even have to be a "terrorist" for that one. Just go visit a foreign country and be at the wrong place at the wrong time. I've had that misfortune. I didn't get a lawyer, lol. No phone calls either. One meal a day. Was there anyone to cry for me? Hell no! Did I whine about it? Of course not, I'm not that dumb. I got out in a couple of days and left.

    So an article about prisons for terrorists? Hey good deal, I like that a lot better than civilians getting killed. Show me the article where they are seriously torturing terrorists (and no, underwear on your head doesn't count, wtf) and I'll complain.
     
  12. Shelby

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    So 9-11 was simply the entirely justifiable act of an underdog retaliating against a bully.

    Wow.
     
  13. D_Neeson Niceone

    D_Neeson Niceone New Member

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    I'm not sure where the US deserves the title of "Bully on the ME" in a pre-9/11 world. Our most major action was the gulf war of 1991 where we liberated Kuwait from being taken over by Iraq. I'm not really sure how we're the "bully" in that one. We've had some disputes with the Iranians before 91 but without any major hostile action. And they were taking hostages - again I am having a hard time seeing the US as the "bully" in that senario. Of course the most deadly event was the Iran-Iraq war - which the US didn't have a direct involvement with. President Jimmy Carter supported Iraq at that time and gave some aide. Also during this time we had the USS Stark get attacked (by Iraq) and over 30 Americans died. Again missing the real "bully" connection, though might be deserving of "dumb" for that particular period.

    You've also got things like the USS Cole and the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut but I think you get the idea.

    Today I think it's resonable to say we've removed the biggest "bully" in the middle east (though there are no shortages of such people). But overall these people aren't interested in killing us because they percieve us as "bullies", it's much simpler than that. They want to kill us because they go to heaven if they do.
     
  14. DC_DEEP

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    Two questions: how old are you, and where do you get your world news and world history?

    I think you got it right about the CIA - these facilities are on foreign soil and their locations are secret, so that the CIA does not have to abide by US law. Suppose for a moment that one (or more) of the detainees was actually a case of mistaken identity. If the detainee is held without charges or the right to counsel, and his family does not know what happened to him, what then? Is it still justified, simply because someone else committed a crime? And yes, the US government has been known to hold US citizens without charges for years at a time.

    Oh, and while we are talking about prisoners of war, our fellows alternate between calling the detainees "prisoners of war" and simply calling them "detainees." Why? If the Geneva Convention prohibits certain actions against prisoners of war, they just call them "detainees." If US law prohibits other actions against them, then they are called "prisoners of war."
    I'm guessing this was in response to Lex. I know you are smarter than that, and I know Lex is too. C'mon, Shelby, humor me, tell my why the terrorists demolished the Twin Towers.
     
  15. Lex

    Lex
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    You know where I stand and my stance is that is would NOT be justifiable. But let's just round them all up--I am sure Hitler and Mussolini are dancing in hell over this.

    Shhh. You're telling the ugly truth and being unpatriotic. Are you trying to be detained?

    That is a nifty little symantic two-step, isn't it? The devil, as they say, is in the details.

    Shelby knows exactly what I meant and I resent him twisting my meaning.

    OBVIOUSLY, the terrorists destroyed the towers because we are American, have things they do not, and they were insanely jealous of all our liberties. :rolleyes:
     
  16. madame_zora

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    Exactly how many of them were Iraqi?




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    - jimmy urine
     
  17. D_Neeson Niceone

    D_Neeson Niceone New Member

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    "Anything too stupid to be said is sung"
    -Voltaire

    Come on Zora, tell us how you really feel! :p
     
  18. madame_zora

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    I'm too stunned stupid to find the words.:tongue:
     
  19. rob_just_rob

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    So what great moral truths are being revealed to these prisoners? Are these the same great moral truths being inflicted on the Iraqis?
     
  20. Shelby

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    Osama bin Laden brought down the towers in an attempt to provoke a fight. He was willing to bet that the west doesn't have the stomach for what it would take to defeat radical islam. It's looking like he's pretty shrewd.

    He and his kind hate what they perceive to be our decadence, our women's rights, our tolerance of gays, our use of alcohol, etc., and are determined to keep it away and/or to destroy it if they can.

    9/11 was an opening move in a terrible, complex game.
     
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