Circumcision: A Feminist issue?

Should Circumcision be a Feminist Issue or No?

  • It should be first and foremost a Mother's decision.

    Votes: 11 8.5%
  • It should primarily be a Father's decision.

    Votes: 20 15.5%
  • It should be A Mother's decision however both parents are involved.

    Votes: 4 3.1%
  • It should be the Child's decision andIf/And When he brings it up we will talk about it.

    Votes: 94 72.9%

  • Total voters
    129

B_liono

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That said, I do take offense to my penis's condition being called "mutilated". The term "mutilated" includes a negative connotation and implicitly means something was made imperfect through alteration. I'm circumcised and my penis is not imperfect as a result. And your opinion on my penis is not appreciated. So please, stop using the mindless term "mutilated"--it's offensive and biased.

I'm a guy who is restoring my foreskin as I don't like being cut, and as a guy who is restoring I've come across many types, and a lot who see it as mutiliation. I see their side of the fence, but I also see it from your side, it is crazy to think of it in those terms. But it all boils down to, are you fine with the decision, for someone who isn't and feels violated then to them they were mutilated, for you who is fine with it, then it is what it is and not something drastic to be considered mutilation. In regards to that, two things: I agree that no one need call you mutilated if you are content with what you've got, so it's far-fetched to call it that. I don't call it mutilation myself, but I do call it a violation, for those from whom consent was not obtained. Two, is it all comes down to preference, if you are good with it then great, if you are unhappy then do something about it, though I concede it shouldn't have been done in the first place without permission.

The health benefits of circumcision are well documented. There was controversy before whether or not this was the case but it has been studied long enough and there is enough evidence now to show it is a great choice on basis of health alone. I am circumcised and think it is great.

All of those documented 'health benefits' are skewed at best and reveal if any sort of benefit a minute and little to no justifiable cause for the procedure as a whole. In any case, I'm not here to argue that, since I do believe all the research doesn't show accurate methodology and data selection. And my underlying point of more than half the world isn't cut at birth and they fair just fine so seems a bit moot a practice to me, aside from the fact that in any case it should always be left to the consent of the individual. But all in all, just with the answer I gave guy-jin, if you're happy with it for you, great, if you aren't then do something about it though if you didn't get the choice it should have never happened in the first place. My biggest thing about it all is, if you want it for you then it's your prerogative, but don't want it for others who may one day not want it for themselves.
 
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B_crackoff

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An interesting video from both viewpoints, though I don't think that a "potential" 1 in 10 benefit is sufficient for mutilation, especially when you're loosing some of the most sensitive nerve endings.

http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/18780/circumcision_lawsuit/

After all, castrated men tend to live a lot longer

Male castration: The easiest way to live to 100? - The Week

But why do that either? Cutting any part of yourself off is defineable as mutilation, & genital mutilation is no different. If you're old enough to choose - fine - but don't abuse a child.

Lion Knight - good luck in your quest - I know it's a long journey.
 
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Guy-jin

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Oh god, is she one of the women who hangs out the mommy boards? I read those boards when I have a question sometimes, but I've only posted a couple of times. I don't have any desire to become a part of that community online.

Here's an excerpt from a blog I'd love to link to, but I can't because it would violate LPSG site rules, but it pretty much describes the reason why I'm a lurker on the momma boards, so much funnier than I could do it.

I don't know if those women would consider themselves to be feminists. A lot of those opinionated women are stay-at-home Christian moms. In fact, there's a massive thread on one where one momma complains about all the anti-feminist posts and wonders where the feminist mothers are. The only reason I've seen women give is that they're Christian, and apparently some Christian women don't believe in feminism. Other women just say that they don't consider themselves to be one. Just because moms are women, or just because they're extremely opinionated, it doesn't mean that you can assume that they're feminists.

I didn't realize that circumcision was a popular topic, but I knew about the debate over vaccinating on those boards. I vaccinated my child, since I do not believe it to be the cause of autism.

Haha! She WAS one of those women. And specifically she was an avid member of that site. I suppose circumcision is a minor topic compared to vaccinations there, but if you do take a gander there, you'll see a lot of people with "anti-circ" and "anti-vax" (icons, banners, et cetera) in their signatures. And it's funny you mention Christianity because she even tried to start practicing faith when she was visiting it. Fortunately she came to her senses pretty soon after. (Sorry, Theists. :tongue:)

I think many of those women do consider themselves feminists without comprehending what feminism means. I'm not saying I think they're feminists, but I think they feel that saying no to "the man" when he wants circumcision or (to a much greater extent) vaccination for his children means they're feminists.

As for vaccinating, not to get off topic, but that community in general is completely off its nut about vaccinating. My friend is still brainwashed by them. She openly admits that she has no good reason not to vaccinate her children. She sometimes still stands by completely fake "proof" that vaccines harm people. Other times she says it's okay not to vaccinate because of herd immunity. Then she'll fall back on things like, "well, the number of vaccinations now is out of control," which may be true, but that doesn't mean kids shouldn't get their MMR vaccines. Maybe just skip chicken pox.

These people have no idea what they're doing. There is no herd immunity when enough people stop vaccinating. They have measles parties. Mumps parties. It's astounding that they somehow legitimize directly putting their children in harm's way rather than get them vaccinated. I still can't understand it. Perhaps it's my profession in the medical field that makes it so stunning.

That said, this person is still a great friend of mine. There's just a couple of things left over from that time at those forums that she literally cannot get over... somehow those forums really can brainwash even otherwise intelligent people.

Anyway, rant over. It's funny that you've encountered these nutty people since becoming a new mommy. :smile:

I'm a guy who is restoring my foreskin as I don't like being cut, and as a guy who is restoring I've come across many types, and a lot who see it as mutiliation. I see their side of the fence, but I also see it from your side, it is crazy to think of it in those terms. But it all boils down to, are you fine with the decision, for someone who isn't and feels violated then to them they were mutilated, for you who is fine with it, then it is what it is and not something drastic to be considered mutilation. In regards to that, two things: I agree that no one need call you mutilated if you are content with what you've got, so it's far-fetched to call it that. I don't call it mutilation myself, but I do call it a violation, for those from whom consent was not obtained. Two, is it all comes down to preference, if you are good with it then great, if you are unhappy then do something about it, though I concede it shouldn't have been done in the first place without permission.

More power to you, bro. You and anyone else can call your own penis whatever you desire as far as I'm concerned. What bugs me is the general use of "mutilated" rather than the word "circumcised" that gets tossed around all the time here. My penis is not mutilated, and I'll thank people to stop using the two words interchangeably because it's insulting. That's my only point on that topic.
 
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Uncutpete

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The health benefits of circumcision are well documented. There was controversy before whether or not this was the case but it has been studied long enough and there is enough evidence now to show it is a great choice on basis of health alone. I am circumcised and think it is great.

Of course you think it's great. Being circumcised, wouldn't you be unhappy if you didn't think its great? So you have a right to your opinion of yourself.

On the other hand, don't back yourself up with non-science. The health benefits of circumcision are not at all well documented, nor are they actually documented at all. The American Medical Association, and the American Pediatric Association have ruled that circumcision of infants is not medically indicated, nor does it prevent more conditions than it may cause. It is not covered by health insurance any more, nor is it covered by National Health in Britain or Canada. Circumcision is valid for religious or (god forbid) aesthetic reasons only, not medical ones. All recent studies, even the AIDS ones in Africa -- which deal with poor and unhealthy populations -- are inconclusive or disproved.

Every year or so a news story like yours surfaces, but they either have too small samples, are skewed or disproved. For instance, in your post about venereal warts. This is a significant STD problem in the US, where more than 75% of adult males are circumcised, and who are passing them back and forth quite successfully without having foreskins. So how much benefit is circumcision, a fraction of a percent if anything at all. Venereal warts are less of a problem in Japan and China, and Europe where almost all of the men are uncircumcised.

Circumcision does however take a lot of pleasure away from males... and here's where it becomes a feminist issue, from females as well. The foreskin is there by nature, to make fucking more pleasant, lubricated and friction-free for the woman. Also the mutilation of babies so that they will look like their fathers involves violating a mother's care as well.
 

TheIrishStallion

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Hey I have an idea. I know, this is crazy... but just bear with me here... What if we DIDN'T cut people's dicks up without their consent? Insane, I know. The concept of not being able to butcher your child's genitals would really get some people down, maybe I'm thinking ahead of my time here.
 

sexualnapalm

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I did a blog about this issue...not about it being feminist or not but about the decision to cut or not to cut. I found out after this blog post that even as informed as I was I still had a lot to learn.

A very dear friend of mine posted this video for me as a response to my blog, hoping that it would further inform me about circumcision.

I hope this helps other people and informs them as well.

YouTube - The Doctors: Daytime Talk Show Disaster
 

TheIrishStallion

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I did a blog about this issue...not about it being feminist or not but about the decision to cut or not to cut. I found out after this blog post that even as informed as I was I still had a lot to learn.

A very dear friend of mine posted this video for me as a response to my blog, hoping that it would further inform me about circumcision.

I hope this helps other people and informs them as well.

YouTube - The Doctors: Daytime Talk Show Disaster

Or, you could just leave the decision up to the kid.
 

wallaboi

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Sorry!
It is a Feminist issue though!

Care to explain why cutting off any part of a child contributes to equal opportunity, equal rights, equal pay or equal social standing for women. Do you believe that because women give birth to children, they have the right to abuse that child?
 

MickeyLee

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feminist are very big on body integrity, self-determination and control of a person's own body.

female circumcision is illegal, since the early 70s, in the US. young boys should have the same rights.

FC is unthinkable in the US. the procedure is considered mutilation and a violation of the infant. baby boys should have the same protections.

the modern wave of feminism realizes men are just as victimized by the double standards and social expectations based on gender. this is just me, but defending a man's right to choose what happens to his body is the exact same fight to keep women in control of what happens to her body.

there is more to ramble. might be rambled later.


Yamine is a returning troll. "she" has already started a very ugly thread on adult circ. is best not to reply... and hope the banning comes soon.
 

Intrigue

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I chose not to circumcise my son. That was the choice I made. If it had been a choice left up to my husband, he would be circumcised.

I felt that it was something my husband and I should decide together, so I brought it up with him for discussion and we talked about it. I'm disappointed that it wasn't an option on the poll. The last option is basically choosing "uncircumcised" since someone has to choose whether to do it or not when he's born and it's not the baby who makes that choice at that time.

We talked about it and came to a decision together after each of us listened to the other one. My husband is circumcised and perfectly happy with his penis the way it is, so he was unconcerned that his son would be unhappy, based on his personal experience and feelings about his own penis, but he didn't feel strongly one way or the other. I felt uncomfortable with the possibility that something could go wrong (I've been with one man who had a botched circumcision) and that it was becoming an outdated practice and that my son could opt to get circumcised later on in life if he wished. I also felt that it was cruel thing to do to a tiny little baby. My husband thought that since I had stronger emotions about the issue that we should do what I wanted.

I chose the fourth option, but only because my real answer "it should be decided by both parents together" wasn't offered as a choice. Ideally, all decisions about the child should be made by both parents discussing it together and coming to a consensus. That way the child benefits from the combined wisdom of both parents. Just because I don't have a penis, it doesn't mean that I'm not better informed about circumcision issues, since I'm the active one on LPSG and he isn't and I'm the one who has been with both cut and uncut men and one man who was cut twice because the first one was botched.



This thread gives me the same feeling.

Yah I agree, my wife and I will make that decision together. And just to give ya a little background I'm Jewish and I'm not certain its needed. I'm happy with my unit but I'm not so pompous as to decide the fate of my poor sons cock based on some ancient tradition. I've moved too far from the Jewish faith to just blindly follow anymore. If he wants he can cut his pecker when the time is right, but I'm sure he won't.