Circumcision and HIV

chico8

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baseball99 said:
I mentioned this before in another thread. Under the foreskin you can have microecxorsions (little cuts) and you have increased white blood cells and potential inflammation therefore if 2 people are exposed to an HIV virus the uncircumcised person is slightly at a higher risk because they have more of the risk factors. However, being cut does not make you immune and the virus can still infect in the urethra of men. Now is it enough to justify circumcision of course not. But is the risk decreased, yep.

Men with tight circumcisions also create more friction during sex. If the woman is dry, the chance is pretty high that small tears will be created on the penis and in the vagina, leading to a higher chance of infection. Since cut men generally have to work harder to reach orgasm the friction is increased even more. With large-sized guys, the risk is of course greater.
 

baseball99

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chico8 said:
Men with tight circumcisions also create more friction during sex. If the woman is dry, the chance is pretty high that small tears will be created on the penis and in the vagina, leading to a higher chance of infection. Since cut men generally have to work harder to reach orgasm the friction is increased even more. With large-sized guys, the risk is of course greater.

what youre saying does make sense. The major difference would be white blood cells, especially CD4+ lymphocytes, the cell that HIV mainly infects, would not be in as high of numbers in circumcised. All it means is that there is a link.....in reality there is probably no increased risk either way
 

B_dxjnorto

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Check this out:

http://glandless.blogspot.com/

It confirms my expectation that there are a lot more "nonstandard" circumcision casualties out there because their instinct is to hide as this man did, and others. Read the comments link at the bottom.

The last thing the world needs is more cutting of genitals.
 

Snozzle

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baseball99 said:
dude are you serious, get a freakin life bro. The last thing i care about when typing on lpsg is spelling and grammar. Please, for my next paper i'll be sure to contact you as editor for spelling and grammar ok? Btw alot of the time i also dont capitalize the letter i and maybe i dont even put a comma or a period.....oh the heresy. i hop spelign on a formu dosent bohter u tooo muhc bc mots peeple dotn caer enuf to rereed and spelchek k?

I'll put it another way. Has basesball got some gift for missing the point? I'll take the above post as a yes.

My footnote was not intended as criticism, but to confirm that baseball's word was what I guessed it was, since it's not in the dictionary under any spelling. I think they're usually called "micro-tears" but they're purely hypothetical, so far.
 

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Snozzle said:
I'll put it another way. Has basesball got some gift for missing the point? I'll take the above post as a yes.

My footnote was not intended as criticism, but to confirm that baseball's word was what I guessed it was, since it's not in the dictionary under any spelling. I think they're usually called "micro-tears" but they're purely hypothetical, so far.

your footnote was not criticism? youre so full of shit dude. its kind of funny i get PMs from people thanking me for explaining things yet you think i never seem to have a point. To each his own tho
 

B_dxjnorto

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Maybe you can get the AMA to take a step back to the Victorian era and start a special license for circumcision only. Doctors in Britain now have a year long backlog for "religious" circumcisions because they are unnecessary, they don't like doing them and they have better use for their ten or twelve years of education.
 

baseball99

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dxjnorto said:
Maybe you can get the AMA to take a step back to the Victorian era and start a special license for circumcision only. Doctors in Britain now have a year long backlog for "religious" circumcisions because they are unnecessary, they don't like doing them and they have better use for their ten or twelve years of education.

AMA makes recommendations and guidelines, they dont outlaw procedures.....also i would assume the backlog in GB is partially due to the socialist medicine structure
 

SomeGuyOverThere

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I don't see what the problem is.

Don't want to get HIV? Use a condom.

And as the Dr of Rocks already pointed out, the highest HIV rates are in the countries with the higest birth rates. This is probably a good thing when you look at it from the level of the human race sustaining itself. Too many people - not enough resources.
 

B_dxjnorto

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Like you said, students can do it. I have that on good authority from more than one person. I'm sure I could do it with a doughnut shaped rock like Bud Berkeley encountered in one Bedouin village (author of Foreskin, A Closer Look) and a sharp knife or pair of scissors. But I don't want to because it's not a true surgery. There is no deformity, injury or disease. It's scam surgery I'll grant you.

http://glandless.blogspot.com/

Put yourself in that guy's shoes, then wonder how many people there are like him. Include all the surgically modified intersexed and you've got a good sized bunch.
 

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SomeGuyOverThere said:
And as the Dr of Rocks already pointed out, the highest HIV rates are in the countries with the higest birth rates. This is probably a good thing when you look at it from the level of the human race sustaining itself. Too many people - not enough resources.

People who welcome epidemics always seem to wish them on other people (usually a despised group such as the poor or the gay). I invite anyone who thinks death of any kind is a solution to the population problem not to leave it up to others, but to make their own, obvious, individual contribution to that solution.
 

SomeGuyOverThere

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Snozzle said:
People who welcome epidemics always seem to wish them on other people (usually a despised group such as the poor or the gay). I invite anyone who thinks death of any kind is a solution to the population problem not to leave it up to others, but to make their own, obvious, individual contribution to that solution.

Haha! Excellent point.

However, I fully accept that my life is forfit, and though I would prefer to continue to exist, I realise that I mean nothing in the grand scale of things and my death is inevitable and completely unexceptional.

I beleive in evolution, and survival of the fittest, so I accept along with that, that if I don't make the cut, and I die, then all is right in the world. I don't have an axe to grind or a particular group of people that I think should die, but I recognise that humanity flies in the face of the rules it has invented/discovered about how nature works. We have this idea of survival of the fittest, yet we try and save everyone and try to keep as many of us alive as we can.

Admirable perhaps, but its probably the biggest risk to our own survival that we have.
 

BarebackJack

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Hmmm... there's a lot of interesting theorizing going on here.

I would agree with some of the points made insofar as tight prepuces, microscopic cuts or fractures, etc. But in my research on the subject, I found that the number one reason being claimed for the greater likelihood of uncircumcised men to become infected with HIV has to do with the cellular structure of the foreskin, which is apparently unlike any other skin cell construction on the rest of the human body.

If you want to find out more about this situation, I'll refer you to the info page I put together, at http://www.BarebackHealth.net/health.html. Scroll down the menu to "The Ways Your Body Betrays"

Also while you are there, check out the penis trivia page as it has more interesting information on foreskin (one of MY favorite subjects) and the penis in general.

I will also add that I think that the HIV risk is not a sufficient reason to go around cutting off men's foreskins. It just means men who are uncut have a greater need to practice safer sex with partners whose HIV status is unknown to them. Circumcision, especially in adults, brings with it additional complications including (I am told) as a loss in sensitivity... and who the fuck wants that?

Sign me as "one who wishes he had been given the choice to be uncircumcised" :)
 

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BarebackJack said:
the cellular structure of the foreskin, which is apparently unlike any other skin cell construction on the rest of the human body.
But not in the possession of Langerhans cells, which are present on all mucosa, such as those of the vagina, anus and mouth. Nobody suggests removing the vaginal mucosa, though one study shows less HIV in women who have suffered FGM.


If you want to find out more about this situation, I'll refer you to the info page I put together, at http://www.BarebackHealth.net/health.html. Scroll down the menu to "The Ways Your Body Betrays"
This site is dangerously misinformative, especially in the way it minimises the risk of barebacking. Its 1950s decor is appropriate for the level of knowledge it shows.

(Langerhans cells were named after a pathologist called Langerhans (duh), Paul, 1847-1888, not "for some reason" as the site says. In his short life he also discovered the islets of Langerhans in the pancreas, which secrete insulin. He died of renal failure consequent on TB, probably caught from someone he'd dissected.)

Sign me as "one who wishes he had been given the choice to be uncircumcised" :)
I'll certainly drink to that.
 
T

that_other_guy

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Male Circumcision lowers HIV infection risk by 60%

It used to be called the unkindest cut. But now the head of the one of the world's largest Aids charities believes we are on the brink of a revolution in attitudes to circumcision.

Richard Feachem, executive director of the Global Fund to Fight Aids, Tuberculosis and Malaria, said research revealing the protective effect of circumcision against HIV was set to change parental expectations and medical practice across the world. Instead of viewing the operation as an assault on the male sex, it was increasingly being seen as a lifesaving procedure which every parent would want for their sons.

Removing the foreskin is thought to harden the glans (head) of the penis, making it less permeable to viruses. Research conducted in 2005 showed the transmission of HIV from women to men during sex was reduced by 60 per cent if the men were circumcised.

A study published last month calculated that if all men in sub-Saharan Africa were circumcised, it would prevent almost six million new cases of HIV infection and save three million lives over the next 20 years.

Dr Feachem said the finding was one of the most significant in the battle against Aids and offered real hope of slowing the spread of the virus. The issue is to be debated at the World Aids Congress, which opens in Toronto next week.

Dr Feachem said: "We know the factors that cause HIV to spread rapidly in a country - the number of concurrent sexual partners, the use of condoms, the presence of other sexually transmitted diseases and male circumcision. Other things being equal, in a circumcised population you have a low and slowly developing epidemic and in an uncircumcised population you have a high and fast developing epidemic."

He added: "Circumcision is growing strongly in popularity in South Africa and in North America. We see males seeking circumcision very commonly in South Africa. The news of its protective effect caused a substantial increase in demand for adult male circumcision.

"Circumcision fell out of favour in North America and the UK as an unnecessary operation. Following this research, I think it extremely probable that parental demand for infant male circumcision will grow as a consequence."

More than one in three boys were estimated to be circumcised in the 1930s, but it fell out of favour from the 1940s onwards. By 1998, it was estimated that 12,000 circumcisions were being performed each year in Britain, suggesting fewer than one in 25 boys was having the surgery. There are big differences between racial and religious groups.

The rate of HIV infection in west Africa is less than 10 per cent, compared with more than 20 per cent in South Africa, which has mystified researchers.

Catherine Hankins, chief scientific adviser to UNAids, and a co-author of the study of the impact of circumcision on Aids in sub-Saharan Africa, published in the online journal PloS Medicine, said: "In west and central Africa there are high circumcision rates and lower HIV rates. Southern and eastern Africa have lower circumcision rates and higher HIV rates."

Deborah Jack, chief executive of the UK-based National Aids Trust, said the research findings were encouraging.

"It is clear the promotion of voluntary circumcision can play an important role in reducing the risk of HIV transmission," she said. But she warned: "People who are circumcised can still be infected with HIV and any awareness campaign would have to be extremely careful not to suggest that it protects against HIV or is an alternative to using condoms."
 

chico8

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that_other_guy said:
I have no opinions on this matter :smile:

I don't know where he gets his facts from but circumcision is quite clearly not gaining in the US. As a matter of fact, it peaked in the early 60s at about 90% and is now performed on only half of all US new born boys.

In West Africa, there is a substantial number of Muslims. Muslims have very strict rules regarding pre and extra-marital sex, one of the reasons the Muslim countries largely have low infection rates. Southern Africa has a much more liberal attitude towards sex.

This article is clearly about pushing circumcision in all cases when circ itself will do nothing in the long run to reduce HIV infections. Safe sex is the only thing that will accomplish this.

I've stated an endless number of times that if circ prevented HIV, then the US would have a far lower rate than Europe, when the exact opposite is true.

Just another fetishist out to mutilate little boys by force instead of letting them choose, talk about sick!
 
T

that_other_guy

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chico8 said:
I don't know where he gets his facts

hmmm ... definitely not my facts ... the post is a direct clipping from The Independent, which, if you had clicked the link, would have been the exact same thing as what I posted ... which is why I said that I have no opinions on the matter
 

chico8

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that_other_guy said:
hmmm ... definitely not my facts ... the post is a direct clipping from The Independent, which, if you had clicked the link, would have been the exact same thing as what I posted ... which is why I said that I have no opinions on the matter

Sorry for the confusion, I was referring to Richard Feachem, the guy quoted in the article.