Circumcision Ban May End Up On San Francisco Ballot

JTalbain

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The question is whether a government should meddle with your penis or with parents' rights to shape/educate their child how they want.
This is not in question. They already do this.There are already restrictions on parenting methods in the law. The government also dabbles in social engineering and shaping the thoughts of the younger generation, because they require children to go to school, forcing many parents to send them to public schools. The public schools have restrictions on what they teach. Good example of this is the abstinence education programs that keep sticking around, even though they've been proven to be incredibly ineffective. Why are they still there? Because the bills which provide funding for the schools have as an earmark that they must do so.

There are similar examples throughout our society, but for the most part, it is not in question whether the government can, or does, meddle with parental decisions. A better question would be whether parents have the right to make this decision for their child. Female circumcision, breast implants, penis enlargement, sexual reassignment surgery, etc. could not be legally performed without medical indication at the whim of the parent on a child. Why do we make an exception for circumcision?
If your family has genetic history of foreskin problems, there may be good reasons to have a son done at birth. The city can't decide this. And it shouldn't prevent it. Such a decision should be between the parents and the doctor, not with the government.
If they were looking at people's DNA to look for genetic markers that would indicate this, then recommending circumcision based on this knowledge, I wouldn't mind nearly as much. However, making the decision because you or some of your family members had foreskin problems is jumping to the conclusion that it is an inherited gentic trait. First off, you don't know if the problem is genetic, and not a result of other problems like infections, poor hygiene, etc. Second, you don't actually know if your son inherited the trait; maybe mom gave him a clean genetic slate. Third, you don't know whether your son would rather treat the problems or remove the foreskin. Choosing to circumcise him is forcing your preference upon him. You can't escape that fact.
 

Snozzle

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The question is whether a government should meddle with your penis
Nobody is suggesting adults should be restricted from having their genitals modified in any way.
or with parents' rights to shape/educate their child how they want.
Well, it does now restrict parents' right to shape (not educate - how did education get in here?) their child's body in any way at all (permanently, that is - you can pierce, but you may not notch) except this one peculiar way, and their right to shape their daughters' genitals is particularly curtailed. So this bill would not add anything radically new, just close up a tiny loophole.

If your family has genetic history of foreskin problems,....
If any work at all has been done on genetics and the foreskin, I would like to hear about it. So far as I know all claims of any genetic connection are purely anecdotal.
 

ck85x65

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I did not make it clear in my response above ...

what I was trying to offer, by subtle suggestion ... was a notion that has gone over several person's heads ... namely,

why do Americans surrender common sense to their government, expecting their legislators to solve problems and concerns that are either commonsensical, or at the very least, should be solved by individuals, without the restrictions to the general population of supposedly free people that must abide by such regulations ?

Legislators are idiots. Everywhere on the planet. In every government, or form of government. Your own US Constitution recognizes this fact, and has provisions to deal with it. Have any of you read it ? Tried to understand It ? Birthers ? Tea Partiers ?

Doesn't it piss anyone off that the government is invading your personal life, and telling you what to do ?

Does the individual not have any say in their own decisions and responsibilities ?

Why do Americans surrender their personal decisions, expecting their government to solve personal problems or concerns ?

Why do Americans seem so eager to quickly abdicate personal responsibility for individual decisions, actions and subsequent consequences ?

Honestly, guys, Hitler was right ... "it is a blessing that the masses do not think for themselves ...".

Why do you even NEED a Big Brother to make such a decision ?

Sorry, everyone, I just do not understand ...

You people scare me. I mean, shitless, no lie.
 
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Sapien

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I did not make it clear in my response above ...

what I was trying to offer, by subtle suggestion ... was a notion that has gone over several person's heads ... namely,

why do Americans surrender common sense to their government, expecting their legislators to solve problems and concerns that are either commonsensical, or at the very least, should be solved by individuals, without the restrictions to the general population of supposedly free people that must abide by such regulations ?

Legislators are idiots. Everywhere on the planet. In every government, or form of government. Your own US Constitution recognizes this fact, and has provisions to deal with it. Have any of you read it ? Tried to understand It ? Birthers ? Tea Partiers ?

Doesn't it piss anyone off that the government is invading your personal life, and telling you what to do ?

Does the individual not have any say in their own decisions and responsibilities ?

Why do Americans surrender their personal decisions, expecting their government to solve personal problems or concerns ?

Why do Americans seem so eager to quickly abdicate personal responsibility for individual decisions, actions and subsequent consequences ?

Honestly, guys, Hitler was right ... "it is a blessing that the masses do not think for themselves ...".

Why do you even NEED a Big Brother to make such a decision ?

Sorry, everyone, I just do not understand ...

You people scare me. I mean, shitless, no lie.

As a fellow Canadian, I strongly disagree. Americans are a way more protective of their individual rights than Canadians are. I think you need to do some more research on this subject before you speak.

The point of this particular proposed law is to protect individual rights - that is the rights of the owner of the penis. Female genital cutting was once legal as well but they are now legally protected. This is a human rights issue. Human rights are governed by our laws.
 

ck85x65

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well said, thank you.

you are correct, more research on my part is warranted, and I will undertake.
 

Sapien

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well said, thank you.

you are correct, more research on my part is warranted, and I will undertake.

Suggest you Google "Doctors Opposing Circumcision" and watch the video "The Prepuce". It provides a very good overview of the physiology and anatomy of the intact penis. (Can't post a link here since it is against the rules do to the content of the video).

Suggest you read the KMNG (Royal Dutch Medical Association) viewpoint on this topic. It provides a very intelligent comprehensive summary of this issue.

Link: http://mensnewsdaily.com/?download=dutch-knmg-circumcision
 

mandoman

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The question is whether a government should meddle with your penis or with parents' rights to shape/educate their child how they want.

If your family has genetic history of foreskin problems, there may be good reasons to have a son done at birth. The city can't decide this. And it shouldn't prevent it. Such a decision should be between the parents and the doctor, not with the government.

The parents are meddling with the child's right to shape their own body.
We don't allow citizens to cut any other living part of their child off. A finger?
No. A toe? No. Why allow a foreskin to be cut off. It is not like hair, or a nail.
If a family has a genetic history of foreskin problems, his chances of inheriting that style of penis are one in four. Why should his foreskin be cut off, when it has a 25% chance of being defective? Would we cut the breasts off a girl, because her mother got breast cancer? No. How is this different?
Doctors profit from doing circumcisions. It is their easy money. Why do you not recognize that there is a conflict of interest there?
Man, get some help for your body dysmorphic disorder. It is starting to affect your logic circuits, your social intercourse, and the rest of your life in general.
 
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