Circumcision -Penn & Teller Showtime

[Dr Rock]

well, personally I've had better symptomatic results with homeopathic medicine than conventional medicine ... although that may simply be because the national health service is a disaster. for an example, back when I quit snorting several hundred dollars' worth of coke a day, I developed severe perennial rhinitis. the only treatment that had any effect at all was homeopathic. basically my mucosa membranes had gotten so used to being continually flooded with cocaine that there was no conventional drug or treatment which would convince them to quit throwing a tantrum when it was withdrawn. similarly, after I had glandular fever and then later spinal meningitis, I had a chronic immune system deficiency for years, and that only improved with long-term homeopathic treatment. now I'm practically bulletproof against bacterial infections, and in the absence of any other evidence I attribute that to the same treatment. I may well be "vitalistic mumbo-jumbo" for all I know, but if it WORKS...

 

[jay_too]

As a physical scientist, it is hard to believe that homeopathic remedies work. Nothing remains...one is just taking a pill of nothing or an eyedropper of nothing. However, about 10 years ago I had an episode with my asthma in France [on a Sunday afterrnoon in August, of course] I got into see a doctor and he prescribed some little pills to take every 2 hours for 8 hours. If they worked, then a few every eight hours. He also gave me a bottle with an eyedropper to start if the pills did not work. I was lucky within an hour or two all problems had disappeared. For 10 years, I have relied on homeopathics to manage my allergies and asthma. Both have gotten much, much better.

It is my understanding that homeopathics work for some and not for others. Hmmm...much like drugs from Merck or Pfzier.

About chiropractic, my roomate [Stanford med student] and I go to for our monthly adjustment. I do not know that it cures anything, but I do know that you feel so much better afterwards. If you have ever dislocated a clavicle [shoulder blade], I recommend a trip to the chiropractor rather than the emergency room. The massage of muscles relaxes them and the shoulder blade is not as likely to pop back out a few days later.

Yea, it may be all in the head; but if it works, it works.

jay

 

[surferboy]

Err...You know that chiropratics is very bad for yer bad, right? I recomend seeing another kind of doctor...I forget the name, my mom sees one. They believe medicine is centered around yer spine. Dammit, why can't I remember?

 

[robertomuro]

I believe that both male and female circumcision forced circumcision will continue to plague us until the end of time. You will also find people who believe it is their right to make non-essential irreversible decisions on behalf of someone else. If you want anything done to yourself, whether it be piercings, tatoos, chop of your hand, circumcision or even suicide, go ahead but don't make that decision for someone else who is fully capable (almost all the time) of making that decision for themselves. Needless to say that EVERY medical organisation that I have ever come across in the world PUBLICLY state they do not recommend neonatal circumcision and that the risks outweigh the benefits. If you do it for religious religions I can understand although I still do not agree (many members of circumcising religions take the ethical route instead of the religious one and refuse to circumcise their kids), the biggest problem I have is the people that do it just because of some stupid reason they make up which sounds good to them and is extremely biased. Even the classic: "I think a circumcised penis looks better" which I do not agree with by the way, is completely biased. If you prefer blonde hair and blue eyes and another person prefers brown hair and brown eyes, does that make it right for you to change your children accordingly?

On the appendix removal post, I have had my appendix removes (for emergency reasons) and was in hospital for 3 days. I now have a scar (like all others) where they removed it. Did I consent to it? Yes, I had no choice and would gladly do it again. Would I have wanted it done to me as a neonate? NO DAMN WAY! My tonsils, appendix (ex), foreskin etc.. are all mine. Far more people have tonsil and appendix problems than any foreskin problems yet they are not routinely removed. I would be pissed as hell if any of those were removed without my permission for non-essential reasons. I hear that many special forces members around the world have their appendixes removed as a matter of course in case they get appendicitis in the field (far away from medical care) and are unable to treat it. Once again, it is a concious choice made by them, whether it is required at the time or not is irrelevant.

Side-note: I do not like piercings or tatoos either but if you want to do it to yourself I have absolutely no problem with it, go ahead. Try and do it to me and your life expectency is likely to be lowered.

 

[jonb]

Yeah, if you want your son's penis to be more appealing to you, that tells us more about you. If you're female, that's Oedipal with a capital O.

 

[Mr._dB]

Originally posted by surferboy@Apr 29 2005, 07:11 AM
Err...You know that chiropratics is very bad for yer bad, right? I recomend seeing another kind of doctor...I forget the name, my mom sees one. They believe medicine is centered around yer spine. Dammit, why can't I remember?

[post=306126]Quoted post[/post]​

Osteopath

 

[jonb]

http://skepdic.com/homeo.html
http://skepdic.com/chiro.html
http://skepdic.com/osteopathy.html

HTH

 

[Industry7]

Originally posted by bigsam@Apr 14 2005, 05:02 PM
I'm not trying to engage in an arguement about this, but I only want to point out that there ARE in fact several benefits and medical reasons for circumcision. Not the least of which is that they found out in a 10 year study that women married to uncircumcised men are 3x more likely to develop cervical cancer than those who were married to circumcised men.

It also reduces the risk of male urinary tract infection and inflamatory dermatosis.

I'm not saying that its something everyone should or shouldn't do...but its ignorant to say that there is specious or no medical benefit to it.

[post=300691]Quoted post[/post]​

If you didn't want to engage in an arguement you shouldn't have just started one. Even if your facts were true, they arne't enough to justify cutting up someone else's genitals without their consent. Even worse though is that there are studies which conflict with your info. Not only that but hte American Cancer Society says that circumcision is NOT of any benifit for prevent cancer of any kind. That's their official statement, i can find it if you really want. As for UTI's omg... That whole thing started from a study done like 30 years ago in a military hospitol. It hasn't been taken seriously in years b/c it was methodologially flawed. Nearly every single baby boy was circumcised as a matter of routine in that hospitol. The only time a baby wasn't circumcised was if they were born with a congenital deformity or disease, which would be agrrivated by being circumcised. Plus I read a very interesting study which showed that uncut boys who do get UTI, the mean time of infection was 4 months, the same as girls. Cut boys however usually got UTIs right after getting cut, which is evidence that the surgery actaully causes infections, the very thing it allegedly prevents!!

The point that I'm trying to make is that it done'st make anysense to try someone down to a baord and cut and tear apart their geneitals without their permission. If you think the alleged benifits of getting cut are great enough, then do it to yourself. But please please please have the respect to leave other people's bodies alone.

 

[B_circin867]

Please cut out the anticirc propaganda. No one but parents for infants and children and adolesants and adults need to make their own decisions. This is a free not a facist country. Families can chose intact or circumcision. Stay out of what they decide.

 

[D_Miranda_Wrights]

Please cut out the anticirc propaganda. No one but parents for infants and children and adolesants and adults need to make their own decisions. This is a free not a facist country. Families can chose intact or circumcision. Stay out of what they decide.

Regulating something is unquestionably "fascism," even when the intention is to avoid parents unnecessarily impinging on the later autonomy of a minor.

On the other hand, you don't even consider that impinging on the autonomy of a minor might be objectionable in any way.

More to the point, you just bumped this thread to chastise someone who posted six years ago. Are you searching through every circumcision thread on LPSG or something?

 

[gettingonwithit]

That was worth posting in a 6 year old thread. Oh well, I suppose the fetishist got to talk about his pet subject again.

 

[UncutDude]

Women get cervical cancer the largest percentage of the time due to HPV, Humam Papilloma Virus. Hence a new immunization for this. Has nothing to do with their partner being cut or uncut. I have practiced medicine for 20 years including working in an STD clinic and I have never seen any circ that was necessary. Yes they do occur but are rare. I have also never seen a case of penile or foreskin cancer. Cutting off the foreskin makes as much sense as cutting off the labia of a vagina. If you want to get cut do it. No need to argue. Any penis is clean if you wash it well enough. All of them stink and are gross if you don't including the cut ones. I would never do this to my newborn. If he decides later on as an adult to make this choice, at least he had the choice. Just my opinion.

 

[Snozzle]

Please cut out the anticirc propaganda. No one but parents for infants and children and adolesants and adults need to make their own decisions. This is a free not a facist country. Families can chose intact or circumcision. Stay out of what they decide.

How can adolescents or adults make their own decision (not to be circumcised), if someone has made the decision (to circumcise them) as infants or children?

As someone said,

My family doesn't piss with my dick
My family doesn't wank with my dick
My family doesn't fuck with my dick
So what business did my family have cutting part OFF of my dick?

 

[Titsdude21]

its funny snozzle that he is shitting on about a free country when he is pro letting other people make decisions for him (or making decisions for others) and therefore totally going against what it means to be a free country.

The irony of the debate is that if someone wanted to get boobs on a baby girl (or any cosmetic surgery) im pretty sure people wouldn't be ok with it. I honestly dont see the difference...