Circumcision reduces HIV risk?

baseball99

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Is that to say, "It was good science"?

You're trying to trap with words and thats freakin stupid. Tuskegee was immoral, wrong and should not have happened. However, it did and the results showed progression of a disease clearly. If good science means proposing an experiment, following a cohort through progression of a disease and making direct correlations then yes it was good science. If good science means maintaining morality and not purposefully inflicting harm (and killing) the study population, then no it was not good science. I will not get into semantics over this. You know exactly what I am saying so dont twist it
 

baseball99

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So, the ends justify the means?

Did I say that? No. Did I infer it? No. So dont make it seem like i did. Are you two purposefully twisting and manipulating posts for some stupid reason? Yes. Do you know exactly what I'm saying? Yes
 

SteveHd

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BB99, I'll stand by my assertion that you're sending mixed messages. We'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.
 

baseball99

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BB99, I'll stand by my assertion that you're sending mixed messages. We'll have to agree to disagree and leave it at that.

you two are so thick. We'll have to agree that you both have problems reading. My messages are not mixed, you and your buddy djxnorto whatever are having too difficult of a time comprehending simple posts
 

Snozzle

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Why the insist on doing random studies.
With that idea they can relate any independent events just because the numbers are similar.
Was any real test performed to prove that? (i hope not) so, they are just random numbers.

I think that the infections would be more related to the socioeconomical situation of the groups that are circuncised or not. (money or knowledge to buy a condom).
Other factor can be the religion of those groups, education, access to drugs.

Like Lisa says: This rock protects to from any Lion.
Homer says: And it works?
Lisa says: Do you see any Lions?
Homer says: Please, i want to buy your rock...

They got a lot of HIV- intact volunteers and circumcised half (chosen at random), so there would be no difference in the socioeconomics. But being HIV- and intact they weren't a random sample of the population. EG, if there was any natural immunity (when AIDS is rampaging around them) they'd be likely to have it, and they'd probably be more careful than the average person. The gold standard is double blind random controlled tests, and double blind just isn't going to happen. The major difference between the circumcised and the control group is the advice the circumcised men were given to hold off of sex for six weeks, and then to use condoms. Oh, and who knows how the circumcised men's behaviour was affected directly by that painful operation on their genitals?
 

lex_marker

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I read that study about HIV and foreskin increases by 50% and I think that's a bunch of crap. The study says
" 22 of the 1,393 circumcised men in that study caught the disease, compared with 47 of the 1,391 uncircumcised men".
There are MANY factors that come into play like how many women each guy has sex with, how often, location, and quite frankly this was not a well-controlled study.
 

Snozzle

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I read that study about HIV and foreskin increases by 50% and I think that's a bunch of crap. The study says
" 22 of the 1,393 circumcised men in that study caught the disease, compared with 47 of the 1,391 uncircumcised men".
There are MANY factors that come into play like how many women each guy has sex with, how often, location, and quite frankly this was not a well-controlled study.
I think I've said it before, but you can easily work out from those figures that it would take 56 circumcisions to prevent one transmission in Uganda per year. That's not good value for money, compared with condoms, education and treating ulcerative diseases and malaria, which facilitate HIV transmission - even if the simple message "Circumcision prevents HIV" wasn't going to have a disastrous effect on sexual behaviour.
 

B_NineInchCock_160IQ

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Having a foreskin grants you special superpowers. It makes you naturally more intelligent, more attractive, more sexually potent, and in some cases grants immortality. Those who have been horribly maimed and disfigured at birth by the barbarous and avaricious medical-profession-conspiracy-fueled practice of circumcision spend their lives miserable shadows of the men they could be, their minds warped and twisted by the overwhelming soul-crushing envy they feel toward those among them still intact and whole. Obviously, they then spend most of their lives concocting ridiculous and entirely fictitious "scientific" studies like these to try and validate the world of genital mutilation they sadly inhabit. In doing so, they hope to convince future generations to butcher and scar the penises of their infant children, so that these babes may in turn suffer through being the same kind of living anathema that all other circumcised males must eventually come to grips with being. It's in part dementia brought on by horrific child abuse and in part a depraved quest for vengeance against the world that created these monsters and freaks that drives the creation of such bogus lies.

This has all been well-documented on the site. Like, almost daily, or at least once a week.



P.S. Buy my guide to Foreskin Restoration!!! Only $29.95!!! Because foreskin is faaaaaantastic!
 

findfirefox

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Having a foreskin grants you special superpowers. It makes you naturally more intelligent, more attractive, more sexually potent, and in some cases grants immortality. Those who have been horribly maimed and disfigured at birth by the barbarous and avaricious medical-profession-conspiracy-fueled practice of circumcision spend their lives miserable shadows of the men they could be, their minds warped and twisted by the overwhelming soul-crushing envy they feel toward those among them still intact and whole. Obviously, they then spend most of their lives concocting ridiculous and entirely fictitious "scientific" studies like these to try and validate the world of genital mutilation they sadly inhabit. In doing so, they hope to convince future generations to butcher and scar the penises of their infant children, so that these babes may in turn suffer through being the same kind of living anathema that all other circumcised males must eventually come to grips with being. It's in part dementia brought on by horrific child abuse and in part a depraved quest for vengeance against the world that created these monsters and freaks that drives the creation of such bogus lies.

This has all been well-documented on the site. Like, almost daily, or at least once a week.



P.S. Buy my guide to Foreskin Restoration!!! Only $29.95!!! Because foreskin is faaaaaantastic!

Oh I Like this :biggrin1:

But you forgot to make the offer expire after 15 minutes! :cool:
 

B_IanTheTall

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The tide is going against the pro-cutters and they don't like it.

Anti-sex, self righteous wingers never like having people not see things their way, it makes them feel under attack. Afterwhich they present creative intelligence and start spewing things about "staying the course" and "see actions to the end."
 
D

deleted15807

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Having a foreskin grants you special superpowers. It makes you naturally more intelligent, more attractive, more sexually potent, and in some cases grants immortality. Those who have been horribly maimed and disfigured at birth by the barbarous and avaricious medical-profession-conspiracy-fueled practice of circumcision spend their lives miserable shadows of the men they could be, their minds warped and twisted by the overwhelming soul-crushing envy they feel toward those among them still intact and whole.


I like this too!! The mutliation MUST end!! And once it is the world will once again be safe for all men!! To HELL with science and the World Health Organization what do they know?? The power of the skin will save us all!! They have conspired to rob all little boys and men of their birthright.
 

B_dxjnorto

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Baseball, you should start deleting your own posts. You reveal too much about the way your mind works.

Unethical research is bad research. We don't starve people to death, so we don't need to know what the Nazis discovered about the way human bodies fall apart when people are starved and frozen to death. We don't let people die of syphilis when treatment is available, so the end stage results of untreated syphilis is not useful information and not scientific.

Well adjusted adults don't cut bits off their genitals and their children's genitals, so we don't call this science.

Tuskegee has been roundly condemned by every international research organization in existence. The President of the United States issued an apology for Christ's sake.

A major reason Auvert's conveniently truncated studies are done is because he's been getting recognition and news time, not necessarily because the research is useful. He's "the star of this conference":

www.kosaids.org - Approximately a 65%

Auvert admits that the 21 month study is "a very small amount of time". He says, "We likely will have to integrate male circumcision in the existing program along with condom use, with reduction of sexual activity, and with voluntary HIV counseling and testing. But for the moment, it's too early to promote this as an HIV prevention method."

Even he's not calling it science. This story gets overblown in the U.S. media because we are the only developed country that still circumcises a majority of its males. If you've followed the whole circumcision thing for very long you know that calls to universal circumcision are frequent enough to be passé.

Besides, with non-invasive prevention methods available, why would anyone talk about cutting off part of their dick unless they were poor, uneducated and paid, like Auvert's subjects, or already cut and looking for a reason, like most U.S. men of the age of sexual maturity.

It is extremely unlikely that Auvert will be circumcising any of his countrymen in the cause of AIDS prevention. I think Auvert is fairly clear about what he is doing, but his "research" sends very mixed messages, especially when not placed in its proper historical, medical and cultural perspective. This is the insight I am trying to provide, notwithstanding the vultures and hyenas.
 

jeff black

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Having a foreskin grants you special superpowers. It makes you naturally more intelligent, more attractive, more sexually potent, and in some cases grants immortality.

P.S. Buy my guide to Foreskin Restoration!!! Only $29.95!!! Because foreskin is faaaaaantastic!

I liked that part.

I can guaruntee that it is true. Not only do I sell Foreskin Restoration, but I was BORN WITH IT.:tongue:
 

Lordpendragon

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Do parents in the US have to sign a release form for the doctor to perform an unnecessary procedure that will cause their newborns immense pain and possible future complications?

Would they be allowed to sue if that child still caught aids?

Why do we spend seven pages discussing "research" that isn't worth the paper it's written on?

Why is irrational cultural dogma so hard to break down?

Why do fools fall in love?