Circumcision Urged in Curbing AIDS Spread

Matthew

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And, Steve, the agenda you described appears to have gone to bed with that loony faction of religious and social ultraconservatives who are desperately trying to discredit condom use, despite (because of?) its proven track record in combatting STDs.

:33: ...
 

BigLittleMan

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Circumcision Urged in Curbing AIDS Spread

By MERAIAH FOLEY, Associated Press Writer



(AP) -- A U.S. health expert urged governments worldwide Tuesday to endorse circumcision to slow the spread of HIV, saying men without the procedure have a greater risk of contracting the virus from infected female partners.


Experts at an AIDS conference in Sydney also warned that HIV infection rates were rising among men who have sex with men in developing countries because of discrimination and lack of access to health services.

The World Health Organization says male circumcision reduces the risk of female-to-male transmission of the disease by around 60 percent. But only 30 percent of men worldwide have had the procedure, mostly in countries where it is common for religious or health reasons.

Robert Bailey, a professor of epidemiology at the University of Illinois, said studies in Africa showed that uncircumcised men were 2 1/2 times more likely to contract HIV from infected female partners, though many health officials were still unclear about its benefits.

"If we had a vaccine that was 60 percent protective, we would be very happy and we would be rolling it out as fast as we can," Bailey told reporters at an International AIDS Society Conference in Sydney, Australia.

"The next step is to get the leaders of countries to actually come up with policy statements endorsing the practice," said Bailey, who has conducted circumcision-related studies in Africa and the United States.

Without local support, international agencies would be unlikely to encourage the procedure to avoid being seen as imposing foreign cultures or values, he said.

Circumcision, the removal of the foreskin from the penis, has long been suspected of reducing men's susceptibility to HIV infection because the skin cells in the foreskin are especially vulnerable to the virus.

In March, the WHO urged heterosexual men to undergo the procedure because of compelling evidence that it reduces their risk of getting the disease. However, it cautioned that male circumcision is not a complete protection against HIV, and said men should still use condoms and take other precautions such as abstinence, delaying the start of sexual activity and reducing the number of sexual partners.

"Circumcision could drive the epidemic to a declining state toward extinction," Bailey said. "We must make safe, affordable, voluntary circumcision available now."

Bailey also called on international agencies to ramp up funding for circumcision in countries hardest-hit by the epidemic.

Michel Kazatchkine, the executive director of the Global fund, a leading international health agency, also called for increased funding.

"I believe that the evidence is overwhelming for the efficacy of circumcision," Kazatchkine told The Associated Press on the sidelines of the meeting. "And if countries come to us ... I see no reason at all why we wouldn't fund that."

Kazatchkine said his organization had not yet received any requests for funding for circumcision, and noted that the WHO advice on the topic was only released in March.

Also at the conference, a leading American AIDS research group said HIV infection rates among men who have sex with men were rising in Africa, Asia and Latin America, citing figures from UNAIDS.

Studies also show that less than 5 percent of that group have access to HIV-related health care, the American Foundation for AIDS Research, or amfAR, said.

"This is a massive failure of the HIV/AIDS response globally and I think one that needs to be addressed," said Kevin Frost, amFAR's chief executive officer.

In Kenya, around 40 percent of men who have sex with men are estimated to be HIV positive, compared to a 6 percent rate in the country's overall population, amFAR said. In Senegal, nearly 22 percent are believed to be infected, compared to less than 1 percent of the general population.

In Uruguay and Mexico, 21 percent and 15 percent are estimated to have the disease.

Under an initiative launched at the AIDS Society Conference, amFAR will seek to raise $3 million in the next three years to provide grants for AIDS education and research among men who have homosexual sex in developing countries.

© 2006 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

let me understand this correctly. let's circumcise men, although our evidence is a little shaky, just in case?
 

Hunt3ed

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Re my posting. I mis quoted the original text saying that the experts suggest that circumcision reduces the infection rate by up to 2.5 times, I should have said by up to 60 percent. I appologies for the mis quote. But I think I get my point accross. Thaks for pointing that out to me SteveHd.
Have fun guys,,, be safe condomise.
 

Sergeant_Torpedo

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Spoiled Princess were the shoes toeless or uncircumcised?

I suspect the instigator of this thread is being duplicitous. The third world is where you find most cut men (they also go in for facial and body scarification) and the discounted reserach he aludes to was flawed and financed by a group of rabid religious fanatics. Also his other references should be challenged as I personally doubt their veracity.

Returning to the propaganda that started this debate (it cannot be refered to as scientific research) it was carried out in a very small area of eastern Africa. The uncut villagers were pagans with a promiscuous sex life, some of whom had HIV. The neighbouring village had been converted to Islam and restricted their women in most areas of their daily life (the women had less freedom and legal rights than the women from the pagan village) and anyone in that village with STD was bullied until they were eventually theatened if they did not leave. The pagans were more caring among their own group. The tainted reserachers' methodology was right wing politics not scholarship.
 

SteveHd

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And, Steve, the agenda you described appears to have gone to bed with that loony faction of religious and social ultraconservatives who are desperately trying to discredit condom use, despite (because of?) its proven track record in combatting STDs...
Perhaps you read something Italian978 posted in another thread? For everyone's convenience I'm copying it below. I've emphasized portions.
Jovial, it's normal to fear HIV and other STD's since there are so many people infected worldwide. The best thing you can do to protect yourself is to get into a monogamous, loving relationship with another person. If you love and trust each other, and the sex is great, you'll never have to worry about getting anything you don't want.

I know it's easier said than done but we're living in crazy times. People didn't have to think about these things years ago. It's a known fact that people lie about sex. I've heard about so many people getting herpes or something worse from a hookup because the person seemed sincere.

You have to weigh the risks. Condoms can help, but they're not 100%, and I'm not positive about this, but I don't think condoms have ever been actually approved for anal sex. They are made for vaginal sex, and if you look on any condom box I'm pretty sure the word "anal" is not even mentioned.
Source: http://www.lpsg.org/936676-post11.html

Warped?
 

B_Italian1

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Italian978, specifically what are you advocating?

I'm not really advocating. Just looking for a solution. Here are the facts:

1. 4000 guys in that one country alone are getting HIV every day
2. education has obviously not worked
3. condoms have obviously not worked
4. an AIDS vaccine is nowhere in sight

What's left when you think about it?

Maybe removing a little skin from a penis is the answer. I'm not saying chop off their penis or even a little bit--just some skin that may be making them more susceptible to getting HIV. Circumcision is not this horrible thing that some people think it is. I've had one as have hundreds of millions, possibly billions of men, over the past 2000 years or more.
 

B_Italian1

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Perhaps you read something Italian978 posted in another thread? For everyone's convenience I'm copying it below. I've emphasized portions.
Jovial, it's normal to fear HIV and other STD's since there are so many people infected worldwide. The best thing you can do to protect yourself is to get into a monogamous, loving relationship with another person. If you love and trust each other, and the sex is great, you'll never have to worry about getting anything you don't want.

I know it's easier said than done but we're living in crazy times. People didn't have to think about these things years ago. It's a known fact that people lie about sex. I've heard about so many people getting herpes or something worse from a hookup because the person seemed sincere.

You have to weigh the risks. Condoms can help, but they're not 100%, and I'm not positive about this, but I don't think condoms have ever been actually approved for anal sex. They are made for vaginal sex, and if you look on any condom box I'm pretty sure the word "anal" is not even mentioned.
Source: http://www.lpsg.org/936676-post11.html

Warped?

Warped? What's wrong with that? Condoms are not 100% and monogamy is safe. Is that a lie? Do you know something I don't know?
 

Peni5

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Study: Circumcision Removes Most Sensitive Parts | LiveScience

How much does circumcision alter what a man ultimately feels? Scientific studies aiming to answer this question have been inconclusive.
Now researchers prodding dozens of male penises with a fine-tipped tool have found that the five areas most receptive to fine-touch are routinely removed by the surgery.
The finding, announced today, was detailed in the April issue of the British Journal of Urology (BJU) International.
Circumcision surgery involves the removal of the skin that covers the tip of the penis, called the foreskin. Infant male circumcision is the most common medical procedure in the United States, with an estimated 60 percent of male newborns undergoing the surgery.
Morris Sorrells of National Organization of Circumcision Information Resources Center and colleagues created a “penile sensitivity map” by measuring the sensitivity of 19 locations on the penises of 159 male volunteers. Of the participants, 91 were circumcised as infants and none had histories of penile or sexual dysfunction.
For circumcised penises, the most sensitive region was the circumcision scar on the underside of the penis, the researchers found. For uncircumcised penises, the areas most receptive to pressure were five regions normally removed during circumcision—all of which were more sensitive than the most sensitive part of the circumcised penis.
Circumcision is a procedure practiced in several countries for medical as well as cultural reasons. Most scientists agree that the surgery confers some protection against infection and the risk of contracting sexual diseases. Recent studies have also shown that circumcision can lower the risks of HIV infection by as much as 60 percent in sex between males and females.
But Robert Van Howe, a study team member at Michigan State University, thinks such claims are somewhat overblown. “The [health benefits] that have been consistently shown are very small, and there are less aggressive, less invasive, less expensive ways of dealing with the problems [circumcision] is supposed to address,” Van Howe told LiveScience.
Other practices, such as choosing sexual partners wisely and using condoms consistently, are far more effective in protecting against diseases, he added.
Circumcision is opposed by some groups on the grounds that it is painful and not a life-saving procedure, and that it also makes sex less pleasurable by exposing and numbing the tip of the penis, called the glans. Some have gone so far as recommending foreskin restoration.
Some previous studies found that circumcision led to little, if any, decrease in penile sensitivity, but Sorrells and his colleagues say such findings are suspect because many are based on self-reports from men who were circumcised to correct medical problems
 

SteveHd

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I'm not really advocating. Just looking for a solution. ...
You're advocating. I not sure of what, though. Is there only one solution?
1. 4000 guys in that one country alone are getting HIV every day
What country?
2. education has obviously not worked
I guess you believe it won't ever work.
3. condoms have obviously not worked
Have they been tried universally? Do they fail often?
4. an AIDS vaccine is nowhere in sight
So you can forecast the speed of medical advances?
What's left when you think about it?
I think you have something in mind.

Did you read Hunt3ed's post. Did any of it register? I think I know the answer.
... monogamy is safe.
As a percentage, how safe?
 

B_Italian1

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You're advocating. I not sure of what, though. Is there only one solution?What country?I guess you believe it won't ever work.Have they been tried universally? Do they fail often?So you can forecast the speed of medical advances?I think you have something in mind.

Did you read Hunt3ed's post. Did any of it register? I think I know the answer.As a percentage, how safe?

If you look at my prior post it says :
"About 4,000 men are infected with HIV every day in sub-Saharan Africa, including 3,000 who are uncircumcised."

I didn't make that up. All of those scientists who attended the conferences obviously know more than all of us. That's their business and their life's work. Of course those people need more education about condom use and monogamy. As far as what Hunt wrote, I don't know how true that is. He's one person as opposed to all of those people in the scientific community.

Monogamy is 100% safe. It never fails unless one of the people cheat. Then it's not monogamy. Are condoms 100%? Of course not, but they're better than nothing if used 100% of the time. They're not 100% in pregnancy prevention so they're not 100% in disease prevention either. Makes sense to me.

I'm not sure why people are so down on monogamy. :confused::confused::confused:
 

SteveHd

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If you look at my prior post it says :
"About 4,000 men are infected with HIV every day in sub-Saharan Africa, including 3,000 who are uncircumcised." ...
You can't even quote yourself correctly! Read item #1 in: http://www.lpsg.org/937471-post87.html ... look for the words "in that one country". I asked you to reveal the name of the country. State it!
 

B_Italian1

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Dave NoCal

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Research often has a political agenda and it's easy to manipulate data. In the case of these studies, my recollection is that a relatively short time interval was used. Even if their data is on the up and up, it may be that a more valid interpretation is that circummcision may DELAY infection. In a ten year study, you might find very little difference at the end. An example of the imact of time interval on outcomes, I can "prove" that good nutrition has no impact on height. How? Measure kids before and after a good lunch.

Circumcision has always been a procedure in search of a rationale. It's been advocated as the solution to whatever this culture is worried about. In the late eighteenth and early nineteenth century it was to reduce masturbation which doctors "knew" caused insanity and blindness. Later, it was touted as evidence that the parents weren't poor, as they could afford it. In nearly 150 years of non-religious, non-therapeutic alteration of non-consenting children's bodies (which often seems to be the underlying agenda of circumcision advocates), it has yet to be demonstrated to solve much of anything.

So now, the compelling problem that "justifies" the mutilation of infants is HIV. Nothing new here.

Dave
 

DC_DEEP

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Thanks a lot. :rolleyes: You have to admit that 4000 new HIV infections a day is a lot.
Italian, what some of us have been trying to point out to you is that the statistics quoted may not actually mean anything. In other words, the numbers may be there, but without the proper controls, there is no cause/effect relationship, and no scientific basis.

As mentioned before, if the group which has begun widespread circumcision is also the same group that converted to Islam, and the group that is not practicing circumcision is a pagan group that practices fertility rites, that's not a fair comparison. They would have to monitor infection rates within the Muslim group, and convince them to only circumcise half the male population. There is more evidence to support the assertion that behavior, not foreskin, has the greater influence on infection rates.

For what it's worth, I've never experienced a condom failure in my 35 years of being a sexually active person.
 

B_Italian1

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Italian, what some of us have been trying to point out to you is that the statistics quoted may not actually mean anything. In other words, the numbers may be there, but without the proper controls, there is no cause/effect relationship, and no scientific basis.

As mentioned before, if the group which has begun widespread circumcision is also the same group that converted to Islam, and the group that is not practicing circumcision is a pagan group that practices fertility rites, that's not a fair comparison. They would have to monitor infection rates within the Muslim group, and convince them to only circumcise half the male population. There is more evidence to support the assertion that behavior, not foreskin, has the greater influence on infection rates.

For what it's worth, I've never experienced a condom failure in my 35 years of being a sexually active person.

Well, something has to be done and fast, and if you or any others have suggestions then I'd like to hear them, and so would all of these experts who gather yearly to figure out what to do. Again, you guys think you have the answers, but you're not doctors or scientists. Don't be so down on them unless you can suggest something better. Over one million cases of HIV in Africa alone in one calendar year is a LOT!

Check out this chart:

HIV/AIDS in Africa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

38.6 million people are living with HIV worldwide, and 24.5 million of them are in Sub-Saharan Africa.
2.8 million people die of AIDS every year worldwide, and 2 million of them are in Sub-Saharan Africa.

If you've never had a condom failure in 35 years that's wonderful; you've done something right, but you are also gay so you haven't had to deal with "what if she's pregnant?" like so many straight guys. Gays have one thing to deal with while straights have two, disease and pregnancy. Not that pregnancy is awful, but it is something straight people have to be concerned about each and every time they have sex. And even birth control pills aren't 100%.

Per Planned Parenthood:

"Of 100 women whose partners use condoms, about 15 will become pregnant during the first year of typical use. Only two women will become pregnant with perfect use."
 

B_ScaredLittleBoy

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People get AIDS because they have unprotected sex. Not because they are uncircumcised (or circumcised).

4,000 is a lot but I'd say it's not because 3,000 had the dreaded FORESKIN. They had unprotected sex with an infected partner.

Circumcision will not curb AIDS. Education and the practice of safe sex are the only things that will. Money is being wasted on circumcision. It's not the answer or even preventative. Cut people still get AIDS you know!