Circumcision

[vega]

(warning extremely graphic material)
http://www.consumptionjunction.com/content...4&type=1&page=3

Does that look more healthy? Does that seem safe? Humane? For the better of the boy? Tell me why you would want to do this to your child?

You may say that it is safer in our society but in all truth the only difference we have is better disinfectants.

I don't know anyone that would consider cutting off a girls labia majora for the "health benefits". It's barbaric and it's a sick practice of child mutilation that should stop.

Did you know that the practice of circumcision was started to prevent boys from masturbating? If a kid picks his nose too much or in public do we cut part of it off? Why are we still practicing this horrible act in a day and age when people aren't supposed to be ashamed of their sexuality and their bodies?

 

[Dr Rock]

because the world is full of fucking idiots.

 

[vega]

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Will complaining about it to us make it stop? I think we've all made our points on this subject. I'm mildly surprised that the response to Katrina wasn't blamed on circumcision in some way.

 

[vega]

Wtf are you talking about? No only A did I not blame anythjing on circumcision but B am I not allowed to make my point?

If you have nothing to add to a thread more than "this post is a waste of time" then maybe you shouldn't have wasted the time to reply to it and make your edgy I read the papers joke. I didn't make you reaad thing. Sorry if I stole 30 seconds of your life.

Things change whe people have their views challenged. The web is a good and fast way to perform this. Would you prefer I stand i front of a maternity ward and hand out pieces of paper with the web adress on it? It's much more effectie to link on the net.

 

[DC_DEEP]

Originally posted by vega@Oct 15 2005, 04:14 PM
Why are we still practicing this horrible act in a day and age when people aren't supposed to be ashamed of their sexuality and their bodies?

[post=352068]Quoted post[/post]​

Vega, this one has been done almost too many times. You ask "why are we still practicing this horrible act..."

The answers are numerous and varied, but the three I hear most often are:

1: It's cleaner.

2: Uncut penises look gross.

3: We want him to look like his daddy.

My responses:

1: Um, not if you actually bathe once a year or so.

2: Um, no, they look as they were intended to look. (If you want to go into the biblical thing, uncut looks as god created it - are you smarter than god?)

3: Good thing daddy didn't have an arm or leg amputated, or serious scarring from an auto accident, or a burn victim. Would you cut the child up to look like daddy then? When the child gets old enough to ask, why not say "Honey, once people used to do horrible things to their children, because they thought it was the right thing to do. We decided we did not want to cut off part of your penis, like daddy's parents did to him."

 

[lellelind]

I think that the main reason to why circimcision is still very common in the US is because the surgeons makes lots of money from it.

 

[BlastOff123]

Perhaps you should talk to Jewish and Muslim religious leaders about it: it's required in their faiths. Don't be so quick to judge others.
As far as white Christians: It's a US thing, basically. Not done so much in Europe these days. And, there is research that shows that circumcised men are less likely to contract AIDS.
Barbaric? Sure. But then in a culture that seems to love body piercings what's the difference?

 

[B_duracock9x6]

Vega I have always considered you an intelligent man that is hot to boot but how do you compare a 3rd world custom, of circumcision to that of the modern world. first children are circum size at birth not 6 5 yrs old or older as boy is in video, Second they child is giving a locale to numb pain and finally DUDE ITS NOT THE SAME KID IS ON THE DIRT IN AFRICAN OR SOMETHING GET A CLUE, MODERN SOCIETY AND 3RD WORLD SOCIETY ARE VASTLY DIFFERENT.

 

[Dr Rock]

Originally posted by BlastOff123+Oct 16 2005, 05:49 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(BlastOff123 &#064; Oct 16 2005, 05:49 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'>Perhaps you should talk to Jewish and Muslim religious leaders about it: it&#39;s required in their faiths.[/b]

... which is just about the most stupid fucking excuse possible. "gotta chop bits off of our kids, god says so." how many medical journals has god contributed to lately?

But then in a culture that seems to love body piercings what&#39;s the difference?

[post=352320]Quoted post[/post]​

the same difference as between consensual sex and rape: informed consent. would you punch holes in your newborn kids&#39; ears or nipples?

<!--QuoteBegin-duracock9x6@Oct 16 2005, 06:08 PM
Vega I have always considered you an intelligent man that is hot to boot but how do you compare a 3rd world custom, of circumcision to that of the modern world.[/quote]
umm, that video looks pretty modern to me, given that the technology for recording and playing it back wasn&#39;t invented until the 1970s.

DUDE ITS NOT THE SAME KID IS ON THE DIRT IN AFRICAN OR SOMETHING

[post=352330]Quoted post[/post]​

... and yet the end result is the same, which is the main problem people have with the idea. bad enough that the surgery itself is painful and unnecessary, but far worse is the fact that its results are irreversible (see "informed consent" above).

 

[lellelind]

Fasten your seat belts, this is going to be a very bumpy thread&#33; :bounce:

 

[robertomuro]

Originally posted by BlastOff123@Oct 16 2005, 07:49 PM
Perhaps you should talk to Jewish and Muslim religious leaders about it: it&#39;s required in their faiths. Don&#39;t be so quick to judge others.
As far as white Christians: It&#39;s a US thing, basically. Not done so much in Europe these days. And, there is research that shows that circumcised men are less likely to contract AIDS.
Barbaric? Sure. But then in a culture that seems to love body piercings what&#39;s the difference?

[post=352320]Quoted post[/post]​

It is not REQUIRED in their faiths especially in Islam. There are many Jews and Muslims who do not circumcise including religious leaders and they have no problem reconciling that.

"Not done so much in Europe" <- Uhm, I have yet to hear of or see any circumcised penis in Italy so I guess that is not so much.

A body piercing is almost always done on the person who CHOOSES it and it does not remove nerves, blood vessels and large amounts of skin, etc..

The problem behind hiding behind religion or culture as an EXCUSE for something is this: http://home.eircom.net/content/irelandcom/...?view=Eircomnet

and the mohels killing infants in the USA also recently made healines etc etc.. Unecessary deaths and mutilation..

 

[nitsud]

Originally posted by BlastOff123@Oct 16 2005, 12:49 PM
Perhaps you should talk to Jewish and Muslim religious leaders about it: it&#39;s required in their faiths. Don&#39;t be so quick to judge others.
As far as white Christians: It&#39;s a US thing, basically. Not done so much in Europe these days. And, there is research that shows that circumcised men are less likely to contract AIDS.
Barbaric? Sure. But then in a culture that seems to love body piercings what&#39;s the difference?

[post=352320]Quoted post[/post]​

I do believe, that it is stated in the bible, in order to give yourself to God you must be circumciside

 

[robertomuro]

Originally posted by nitsud+Oct 16 2005, 11:46 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(nitsud &#064; Oct 16 2005, 11:46 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-BlastOff123@Oct 16 2005, 12:49 PM
Perhaps you should talk to Jewish and Muslim religious leaders about it: it&#39;s required in their faiths. Don&#39;t be so quick to judge others.
As far as white Christians: It&#39;s a US thing, basically. Not done so much in Europe these days. And, there is research that shows that circumcised men are less likely to contract AIDS.
Barbaric? Sure. But then in a culture that seems to love body piercings what&#39;s the difference?

[post=352320]Quoted post[/post]​

I do believe, that it is stated in the bible, in order to give yourself to God you must be circumciside

[post=352389]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

I assume you are talking about the old testament because the new testament specifically states otherwise.

Note: The jewish circumcision practiced today is VASTLY different from the original circumcision as practiced in the old testament (as in FAR more severe).

But here are some sites on circumcision from Jews against circumcision: http://www.jewsagainstcircumcision.org/

and

http://www.jewishcircumcision.org/

 

[vega]

It&#39;s not. If it were circumcision would be a mandated practice in the catholic church.

And people wonder why don&#39;t like religion.

In regards to my quick judging... It&#39;s not like I said Jewish people are stupid or insulted them. I do not like the practice of circumcision. If anyone else believes in it go ahead but I have as much right to state my disgust at the practice as they have to believe in it.

Did you notice that you avoided the issue as to whether or not it is horrible to do and just jumped on me for questioning someone elses beliefs?

Free speech doesn&#39;t just go one way.

If someone came forward with proof that biblical texts denoted that each christian child should have the shaped of a cross cut into their backs I&#39;m kind of doubting it would suddenly jump into practice. And I would be the first to call it moronic regardless of it&#39;s theological backing.

By the way if a kid is a month old or 5 years old shouldn&#39;t make the difference in whether you are conscerned with them being seriously wounded.

If a toddler falls and cuts themseles do you take care of it but brush it off because they won&#39;t remember it later?

 

[vega]

Thank you RobertoMuro

 

[hippyscum]

Sweet fucking Christ, I wish I wasn&#39;t so curious about links that say "Gross stuff here"

 

[robertomuro]

Originally posted by vega@Oct 17 2005, 01:10 AM
Thank you RobertoMuro

[post=352405]Quoted post[/post]​

No problem. I full concur with what you are saying. Religion supposedly teaches morales which people should be able to use without following words from a human like sheep. If they feel it is morally incorrect to do something then don&#39;t do it. Don&#39;t do it and then blame it on something or someone else.

The Catholic Church is very against circumcision and has stated that in no uncertain terms (It was banned in 1442), the council document can be read here: http://www.ewtn.com/library/COUNCILS/FLORENCE.HTM#5

Are the pro-circ people here only pro male circ or pro circ in general (as in females as well)?

 

[Pye]

I&#39;m not for or against circumcision.

BUT -- it should be a choice, not something done by parents to an infant at birth...I don&#39;t believe that should be allowed. There is no reason for it and for every article or study that says it&#39;s healthier there is one controverting that evidence.

Let&#39;s leave religion out of this. I&#39;ll get a lot of flack for this but religion should have no place in a modern society. You want to be spiritual FINE. Organized religion causes nothing but hate and animosity.

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

Originally posted by vega@Oct 16 2005, 02:28 AM
Wtf are you talking about? No only A did I not blame anythjing on circumcision but B am I not allowed to make my point?

If you have nothing to add to a thread more than "this post is a waste of time" then maybe you shouldn&#39;t have wasted the time to reply to it and make your edgy I read the papers joke. I didn&#39;t make you reaad thing. Sorry if I stole 30 seconds of your life.

Things change whe people have their views challenged. The web is a good and fast way to perform this. Would you prefer I stand i front of a maternity ward and hand out pieces of paper with the web adress on it? It&#39;s much more effectie to link on the net.

[post=352247]Quoted post[/post]​

My point had nothing to do with whether I thought you were wrong or right. I just said this subject has been discussed here over and over again. Bringing it up again just causes more of the same arguments we&#39;ve already heard.