Civil liberties my ass

Dr Rock

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big dirigible said:
So the police (those who performed said arrests) are known to be Republican and/or Christian and/or dumb?
possibly not all of them, but they ARE all working for dumb christian republicans, and thus by their actions advancing a dumb, christian, republican agenda: which is just as bad.
 

DC_DEEP

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Ha! With all the discontent right now toward the republican party, I can just see it now in 2007, election day.... hundreds and hundreds of registered democrats in Florida and Ohio (probably Massachusetts, too) rounded up and arrested on suspicion of unpaid parking fines.... released the next day. "It was all a mistake. Oopsie. Go on home now... no, of course we can't re-open the polls, they are closed. You missed work? Uh, well, again, oopsie."
 

KinkGuy

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The odds of another "Ohio" and "Florida" style election (and I use that term loosely) are huge. And on a much grander scale. They aren't even trying to hide the illegalities and corruption anymore.
 

DC_DEEP

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KinkGuy said:
The odds of another "Ohio" and "Florida" style election (and I use that term loosely) are huge. And on a much grander scale. They aren't even trying to hide the illegalities and corruption anymore.
LOL you know, they claim that the ballot boxes for the republicans and for the democrats and for the independents are all the same... but for some odd reason, the republican ballot box is in the shape of a strongbox, the other two are oddly-shaped like a shredder....

Whoever made the determination that the absentee ballots should not be counted should be rotting in jail - or better yet... executed for treason.
 

Webster

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big dirigible said:
So the police (those who performed said arrests) are known to be Republican and/or Christian and/or dumb?

You guys are making up a lot of "news" here. Leave that to the pros at the Times, they've been at it a lot longer.
__________________________________________________________
SHRUB AND HIS HANDLERS = REPUBLICANS
MAJORITY OF CONGRESS = REPUBLICANS
MAJORITY OF SUPREME COURT = REPUBLICANS
JUDGES APPOINTED BY = REPUBLICANS

The bottom line here is that there is no accountability.
There are no "checks and balances" as was designed by our founding fathers.
SO,
A peaceful observer, Sheehan, can be physically removed for any reason or for no reason and there is no one who can be forced to be held accountable.......

The only answer is to vote the bastards out of office.
 

madame_zora

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Webster said:
__________________________________________________________
SHRUB AND HIS HANDLERS = REPUBLICANS
MAJORITY OF CONGRESS = REPUBLICANS
MAJORITY OF SUPREME COURT = REPUBLICANS
JUDGES APPOINTED BY = REPUBLICANS

The bottom line here is that there is no accountability.
There are no "checks and balances" as was designed by our founding fathers.
SO,
A peaceful observer, Sheehan, can be physically removed for any reason or for no reason and there is no one who can be forced to be held accountable.......

The only answer is to vote the bastards out of office.

All valid and obvious points to anyone with half a brain. The real question is, "Why were either of these "elections" even close?" As long as the majority of Americans are this highly stupid, they won't vote them out, even for self-interest. If they truly believe he's a man of Gawd, then he's infallible, and his predecessor will just have to do the same thing.

STUPID STUPID STUPID, BUTTFUCKING STUPID.

Ahem, had to get that out of my system.

Basically, "God" has become whatever the politicos decide He is, He doesn't get to vote, speak for himself, or even have to respect paid of having the Bible read or referenced in any intelligible way. Nope, just morons spouting stupidity. Free will is a waning joke and anything decent about religion is thoroughly deceased as well. Welcome to the reich of Corporate America, we are going to take it up the ass in high fashion, you betcha.
 

Chuck64

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madame_zora said:
The real question is, "Why were either of these "elections" even close?"

I just wanted to point out a possible reason for the close elections:
(mostly) White (mostly) straight (mostly) middle-class america - My parents included. An overwhelming majority of them were raised to be Republicans and will vote that way until the day they die, regardless of who they're voting for. They were taught that the Democrats, if given 1/2 a chance, will tax them in to the ground and create a welfare state. That may be true, but I'd rather live in a Democratic welfare state than a Fascist welfare state. Since they don't take time to educate themselves about politics, they don't really care about things like the Valerie Plame and Jack Abramoff scandals, the Alito supreme court appointment, or Cindy Sheehan state of the union debacle. They don't see these things as signs of a deeper issue with current administration.

Of course, no matter how many little things they miss or don't fully understand, it's hard to ignore that the Iraq war isn't going well. That is my one and only source of optimism for 2008.
 

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Chuck64 said:
I just wanted to point out a possible reason for the close elections:

"Technically"...is wasn't all that close, especially had they accurately and honestly counted all the votes which were cast and absolutely, had they allowed everyone in ohio and fla to vote at all.

And those are just the two examples we have absolute, undeniable proof of.
 

SpeedoGuy

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KinkGuy said:
"Technically"...is wasn't all that close, especially had they accurately and honestly counted all the votes which were cast and absolutely, had they allowed everyone in ohio and fla to vote at all.

And those are just the two examples we have absolute, undeniable proof of.

KinkGuy, welcome back.

As long as GOP candidates ascend to office after close elections, I doubt the Republicans will be all too eager to investigate evidence of shoddy vote counting practices. They'll simply dismiss it as the whining of sore losers.

The day will come, however, when a Democrat wins a close one and then the Republicans will dramatically change their smug tune. Witness the lawsuits, accusations and other antics following the Washington state governor's race in 2004.
 

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SpeedoGuy said:
As long as GOP candidates ascend to office after close elections, I doubt the Republicans will be all too eager to investigate evidence of shoddy vote counting practices. They'll simply dismiss it as the whining of sore losers.

The day will come, however, when a Democrat wins a close one and then the Republicans will dramatically change their smug tune. Witness the lawsuits, accusations and other antics following the Washington state governor's race in 2004.
Well, mostly right... except it really does not matter whether it is the Republicrats or the Demagogues who win the election, the other side will whine. Keep watching the issue of filibustering. Currently, the Republicans want to do away with it, and the Democrats see it as their only tool. Seems like I remember just a short while back, it was the other way around, the Democrats were wanting to end filibuster as a tactic, and the Republicans were using it against them. It won't go away, though, because BOTH sides know that if they ever lose the majority in the House, filibuster will be their friend.

By the way, I emailed my politicians regarding the Alito confirmation, informing them that they were NOT to support him, and that they were to respond to me by email within 48 hours. I sent the emails 4 business days before the confirmation deadline. I got a response from Mr. Allen today; I have not yet heard back from Mr. Warner. Senator Warner stopped responding to my letters and emails about 2 years ago, when I took him to task on a couple of issues, and insisted that he give me actual direct responses, not form letters. Senator John Warner is slime.
 

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BronxBombshell said:
What are you doing, and what do you think other Americans should do?

This is gonna sound like a rant...but bear with me.

It should start at the top with Corporations.

Phone Tapping/ Search Engine Database Scavenging for example.

SBC and the Search engine companies have enough cash and clout to be able to say to the Government, No Boys, Sorry. Your Infringing on the Constitution, and we wont allow you OUR customers private information.
But, as we all know, this didnt happen and all of our names are on some Governmental list to do what they please. I have a strong feeling they were paid off, or extra tax credits given.
There should have been a class action law suit by every member of SBC for releasing private information to the government, and allowing monitoring of phone lines.

Think about it. Do you really think all they were monitoring was "Terrorist Activity"??
What about Stock Options. Stock and bond Ups and downs for tomorrow, Best bang for your buck conversations, Investment opportunities heard offline of the trade board...the list goes on and on.
They Threw Martha Stewart in jail for it. Now being it's Bush and his croonies, Its ok??

Something is wrong folks... Dem or Republican...something is very wrong.

Google is taking a stance though, and now the Govt is threatning information withholding. Hopefully they will hold their ground and tell the govt to get fucked.

Protest. One man on the steps of the cap. will get arrested. A Large Group of people wont.
If your confronted - Fight For your Right.

Vote. SO many americans give up as certain parties generally buy an election. You've got to vote to show that the Popular Vote shines.

Grow some hair on your balls - When someone screws you over, don't take it. Raise the roof. Write Letters, take action.
I am generally a roof raiser.
If somebody screws me over, Im polite at first, to try and resolve it.
Once thats over, I raise the fucking roof! Shit flys. People scatter.

I could go on and on..but I have a feeling it will fall on deaf ears.
 

rob_just_rob

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As a moderately interested outside observer of U.S. politics, I have one observation I would like to air.

Throughout history, unpopular governments have forced unpopular policies on their citizenry under the aegis of "National Security", "the National Interest", "loving your country", and, of course, "supporting our troops".

It mystifies me that so few people are calling bullshit on the leap of logic to the effect that if you don't support your government and its dangerous, illogical policies, you're a traitor to your country. Countries aren't made of big marble buildings, political parties, corporations, or abstract geopolitical concepts, countries are made of people. And not the 1% of the people that have all the say in "national" (read: government) policy.

We've been suckered by that logical leap here in CAN, and they certainly have fallen for it in Europe at times, but it seems deeply embedded in the U.S. political culture, to the point where few people even notice it.

(I love America, hate the U.S. government. I love Canada, and I'm deeply mistrustful of the Canadian government, even as it eyes me from across the bar, sending a drink my way.)
 

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rob_just_rob said:
It mystifies me that so few people are calling bullshit on the leap of logic to the effect that if you don't support your government and its dangerous, illogical policies, you're a traitor to your country.

The "my country, right or wrong" frame was effectively used to manipulate public opinion by quickly ridiculing and intimidating anyone who dared dissent from the rush to war in Iraq. Political Correctness from the right, so to speak.
 

madame_zora

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SpeedoGuy said:
The "my country, right or wrong" frame was effectively used to manipulate public opinion by quickly ridiculing and intimidating anyone who dared dissent from the rush to war in Iraq. Political Correctness from the right, so to speak.

This has long been a point of contention for me. If we really care about our nation, it is the people who are charged with the duty of holding our politicains accountable, so it is on US that they onus lies. Co-operating with an unjust government is far more treasonous than calling it what it is, and overthrowing it. We have tried voting it out, only to have our efforts thwarted. What then do you DO when the corruption is so deep that your vote no longer counts?

Well, if you're a nice little automaton, you'll view the problem as too big and stick your face back in the tv guide. Then in your shame you'll call everyone who's doing and saying what YOU KNOW DAMNED WELL YOU ought to be doing and saying a "nutjob" or "conspiracy theorist", as if that somehow relieves you of the responsibility to act. It doesn't, it's just makes you unpatriotic, and extremely stupid. The whole world right now is paying for the laziness and stupidity of the american people.
 

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Rikter8 said:
This is gonna sound like a rant...but bear with me.

It should start at the top with Corporations.

Phone Tapping/ Search Engine Database Scavenging for example.

SBC and the Search engine companies have enough cash and clout to be able to say to the Government, No Boys, Sorry. Your Infringing on the Constitution, and we wont allow you OUR customers private information.
But, as we all know, this didnt happen and all of our names are on some Governmental list to do what they please. I have a strong feeling they were paid off, or extra tax credits given.
There should have been a class action law suit by every member of SBC for releasing private information to the government, and allowing monitoring of phone lines.

Think about it. Do you really think all they were monitoring was "Terrorist Activity"??
What about Stock Options. Stock and bond Ups and downs for tomorrow, Best bang for your buck conversations, Investment opportunities heard offline of the trade board...the list goes on and on.
They Threw Martha Stewart in jail for it. Now being it's Bush and his croonies, Its ok??

Something is wrong folks... Dem or Republican...something is very wrong.

Google is taking a stance though, and now the Govt is threatning information withholding. Hopefully they will hold their ground and tell the govt to get fucked.

Protest. One man on the steps of the cap. will get arrested. A Large Group of people wont.
If your confronted - Fight For your Right.

Vote. SO many americans give up as certain parties generally buy an election. You've got to vote to show that the Popular Vote shines.

Grow some hair on your balls - When someone screws you over, don't take it. Raise the roof. Write Letters, take action.
I am generally a roof raiser.
If somebody screws me over, Im polite at first, to try and resolve it.
Once thats over, I raise the fucking roof! Shit flys. People scatter.

I could go on and on..but I have a feeling it will fall on deaf ears.
__________________________________________________
I think that an awful lot of people agree with you. The great amount of people who can be swayed, wait for leadership before they will get on board.

Also, it seems that things have to get bad enough before people demand change. Then, unfortunately, people become complacent again. And, the radical right wingers are quick to take advantage.
 

DC_DEEP

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Rikter8, I think I'm in love with you!!! LOL rob_just_rob, thank you for your support. I have people look at me like I'm from Rigel 7 when I tell them I love America, but hate most americans and especially the gov't. SpeedoGuy, you know how I feel about you... and Madame, kisses to you as always. You and I think so much alike, it scares me sometimes.

P. S. Folks, it is not too late to continue to harass your CapitolHill guys about these issues. Write to them demanding an explanation of their votes! Continue to demand investigations. Write a letter a day. I'll even send you postage stamps, just DO IT!!!!!