Clinton as VP?

[deleted15807]

Inside the Clinton campaign and out, the finger-pointing has begun. The bottom line is this: She called the biggest plays, and she got them wrong

 

[HazelGod]

Inside the Clinton campaign and out, the finger-pointing has begun. The bottom line is this: She called the biggest plays, and she got them wrong

Seriously...she couldn't even orchestrate a winning primary campaign. People think she could effectively manage the affairs of this nation? :rofl:

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

Seriously...she couldn't even orchestrate a winning primary campaign. People think she could effectively manage the affairs of this nation? :rofl:

In fairness, she made an extraordinary comeback, and with South Dakota tonight counted, she may have won the overall popular vote by the narrowest of margins, at least under a couple entirely acceptable ways of looking at it.
There's lots to respect in Clinton's tenacity and the way she bounced back far better than you would have admitted possible just a short while ago.
That said, it's time for a lot of grace from Hillary Clinton.
We can expect it from Obama.

 

[HyperHulk]

Say Hello to Pres McCain.The republican party myst be having a party today,lol.

I'm not sure how Obama as the nominee is a reason to celebrate for the republicans. It seems to me that they would have preferred Clinton. Obama is a tougher candidate for republicans. If Clinton had captured it, it would have been much easier to fire up the base and get people on the anti-Clinton bandwagon--a formidable bandwagon indeed. Obama is an unknown. There has never been candidate like Obama and there is no clear-cut way to attack him. The race stuff is too explosive. The wife stuff doesn't have lots of legs. The inexperience/anti-war stance is the strongest but it means associating McCain with the stuff most closely associated with Bush. And people forget, lots of republicans simply do not like McCain, they consider him a traitor. If the republicans want to defeat Obama, they have their work cut out for them. It won't be as easy as it may look.

 

[HazelGod]

We can expect it from Obama.

He delivered. I don't know if you saw his speech in St. Paul, but it was very presidential, in every sense. Others could learn much from him.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

He delivered. I don't know if you saw his speech in St. Paul, but it was very presidential, in every sense. Others could learn much from him.

I did, and he did, and they could.

 

[blkmwbp]

i agree obama always takes the high road and hilary needs to be mature i just hope that obama takes her as his VP so that he can win in november so that the country and world can get right .....change is needed and obama=good change

 

[deleted15807]

Seriously...she couldn't even orchestrate a winning primary campaign. People think she could effectively manage the affairs of this nation? :rofl:

She had an impossible time trying to control Bill. He would have been a very loose cannon as First Husband. VERY. I think she would have had a lot easier time had he not campaigned for her. I think they both wanted it too much and the nearer your destination the more you're slip slidin' away.

 

[HyperHulk]

In fairness, she made an extraordinary comeback, and with South Dakota tonight counted, she may have won the overall popular vote by the narrowest of margins, at least under a couple entirely acceptable ways of looking at it.
There's lots to respect in Clinton's tenacity and the way she bounced back far better than you would have admitted possible just a short while ago.
That said, it's time for a lot of grace from Hillary Clinton.
We can expect it from Obama.

It really should never have been this close. Clinton should have taken this easily and the fact that she had to fight back to draw near even, says quite a bit about how her campaign was managed. I have a theory: I don't think Obama intended to win this whole thing in the beginning. I think he wanted to make a serious run and position himself well enough to be thought of as a viable candidate for the VP position, get his 8 years and then go for the presidency. I think he had to run so that Clinton would take him seriously. And I think it all worked too well. I think he latched onto something that frankly took everyone by surprise and he has ridden the wave. Obama has nothing to lose with this election. He's already achieved more than anyone could have ever expected from him.

He will need Clinton though, in some capacity. He needs her support. They are now inextricably linked. The more I think about it, the decision of the VP seems to be in Clinton's hands. If she wants it, Obama will have to offer it to her. I'm not sure how he justifies to the public if he doesn't choose her. He's only free if she says she's not interested and wants to focus on being a Senator.

 

[B_JasonDawgxxx]

Nothing like politics on a penis web site,lol

 

[B_becominghorse]

Nothing like politics on a penis web site,lol

'
Yes, and how high-toned it becomes when Hazel prefaces his Mongoloid remarks with 'seriously...'

 

[B_Nick4444]

a great many polls show Obama too far from the center to appeal to the greater number of voters

while Clinton and Obama were scrapping, McCain has managed to convince many in the electorate that he is more centrist than the original images of him as a far-right conservative, not among the farthest right, but definitely at the right end of the spectrum

we shall see ,,,

I'm not sure how Obama as the nominee is a reason to celebrate for the republicans. It seems to me that they would have preferred Clinton. Obama is a tougher candidate for republicans. If Clinton had captured it, it would have been much easier to fire up the base and get people on the anti-Clinton bandwagon--a formidable bandwagon indeed. Obama is an unknown. There has never been candidate like Obama and there is no clear-cut way to attack him. The race stuff is too explosive. The wife stuff doesn't have lots of legs. The inexperience/anti-war stance is the strongest but it means associating McCain with the stuff most closely associated with Bush. And people forget, lots of republicans simply do not like McCain, they consider him a traitor. If the republicans want to defeat Obama, they have their work cut out for them. It won't be as easy as it may look.

 

[prince_will]

Nothing like politics on a penis web site,lol

ha! you're right. that's why i love Etc, Etc.

 

[HyperHulk]

She had an impossible time trying to control Bill. He would have been a very loose cannon as First Husband. VERY. I think she would have had a lot easier time had he not campaigned for her. I think they both wanted it too much and the nearer your destination the more you're slip slidin' away.

Bill won't be a problem at all. Bill played the role of the VP for her campaign, the attack dog. It didn't work. He won't play that role if she's the VP because she'll be better at it than he is. I don't see Clinton interfering as the VP--like Gore, she'll just want her own projects to put her stamp on. Give her health care and something else to run with. Bill can help be an ambassador and negotiator--he holds a great down of clout internationally. The Clintons can be maximized. They can help. They just need to push the ego to the side and look to 2016. It's all still within reach.

 

[prince_will]

I respect your position Will.

thank you. that's all i could hope for. same here, btw.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

It really should never have been this close.
Clinton should have taken this easily and the fact that she had to fight back to draw near even, says quite a bit about how her campaign was managed.

I suppose, but it says as much about Obama's extraordinary appeal, of which I haven't seen an equal since Reagan (and I was in no sense in Reagan's corner at any time ... but you had to say, The guy had charisma.)
My point is that once she lost her footing and everyone thought her campaign would inevitably dwindle, she was having none of it.
From the perspective of a year ago, Obama's achievement is extraordinary.
From the perspective a couple of months ago, Clinton's is, maybe not extraordinary, but pretty damn impressive, I think, anyway.

I have a theory: I don't think Obama intended to win this whole thing in the beginning. I think he wanted to make a serious run and position himself well enough to be thought of as a viable candidate for the VP position, get his 8 years and then go for the presidency. I think he had to run so that Clinton would take him seriously. And I think it all worked too well. I think he latched onto something that frankly took everyone by surprise and he has ridden the wave. Obama has nothing to lose with this election. He's already achieved more than anyone could have ever expected from him.

Hard to say. Visionaries don't get cribbed by 'realism.'
He probably thought he might wind up only being tapped for the VP position ... and that by itself would be an amazing, obviously historic, achievement.
But I can't imagine him thinking it 'worked too well.' I don't imagine he ever had a primary goal other than mastering the mountain.
It exceeded expectations, sure ... but worked not too well, but perfectly.

He will need Clinton though, in some capacity. He needs her support. They are now inextricably linked. The more I think about it, the decision of the VP seems to be in Clinton's hands. If she wants it, Obama will have to offer it to her. I'm not sure how he justifies to the public if he doesn't choose her. He's only free if she says she's not interested and wants to focus on being a Senator.

Well, if she can be persuaded to campaign for the ticket with sincerity and vigor, just as a senator ... and convey that sincerity and vigor ... then she can help a great deal even without being the VP candidate.
But if she makes it seem like he has little choice but to choose her, then the chalice is poisoned.
If he doesn't choose her, he's a bit fucked with her more die-hard supporters.
If he does, he's a wimp whose self-allowed castration proves he hasn't the presidential mettle.
I hope Clinton's marbles are in top form now. If she cares at all about the Democratic Party, she must calculate things very well.
She could torpedo things ... conceivably (though I'm not absolutely convinced he needs her).
And if the Democratic campaign fails because Clinton's ego was not properly massaged and gratified, then there's a dustbin ready to collect her historical reputation.

 

[HazelGod]

I disagree. I expect the party leadership to close ranks behind Obama, starting tomorrow. Expect the remaining uncommitted superdelegates to line up behind him, especially given that harpy's refusal to concede tonight.

She blew her chance to bow out with grace and still serve the party's interest. Beginning tomorrow, she'll be forced out by sheer ostracism.

 

[deleted15807]

Where oh where is Trinity?

 

[2322]

I suppose, but it says as much about Obama's extraordinary appeal, of which I haven't seen an equal since Reagan (and I was in no sense in Reagan's corner at any time ... but you had to say, The guy had charisma.)

Amen to that. Greatest team I've ever seen in the White House is Reagan/Noonan. He was the leader (though not necessarily politician) America needed.

My point is that once she lost her footing and everyone thought her campaign would inevitably dwindle, she was having none of it. From the perspective of a year ago, Obama's achievement is extraordinary. From the perspective a couple of months ago, Clinton's is, maybe not extraordinary, but pretty damn impressive, I think, anyway.

It was her nomination to lose and I think that's gone to her head a bit. The primaries were supposed to be mere formalities.

Hard to say. Visionaries don't get cribbed by 'realism.' He probably thought he might wind up only being tapped for the VP position ... and that by itself would be an amazing, obviously historic, achievement. But I can't imagine him thinking it 'worked too well.' I don't imagine he ever had a primary goal other than mastering the mountain.
It exceeded expectations, sure ... but worked not too well, but perfectly.

Which is why he needs to surround himself with one or two idealists like he is, and a small army of realists.

Well, if she can be persuaded to campaign for the ticket with sincerity and vigor, just as a senator ... and convey that sincerity and vigor ... then she can help a great deal even without being the VP candidate.
But if she makes it seem like he has little choice but to choose her, then the chalice is poisoned.
If he doesn't choose her, he's a bit fucked with her more die-hard supporters.
If he does, he's a wimp whose self-allowed castration proves he hasn't the presidential mettle.
I hope Clinton's marbles are in top form now. If she cares at all about the Democratic Party, she must calculate things very well.
She could torpedo things ... conceivably (though I'm not absolutely convinced he needs her).
And if the Democratic campaign fails because Clinton's ego was not properly massaged and gratified, then there's a dustbin ready to collect her historical reputation.

Yeah, she's got to sit back and campaign for Obama among her supporters and only her supporters. For Obama to have the best chance, she needs to keep her distance.

I think the chalice from the palace holds the brew that is true. It's the vessel with the pestle that holds the pellet with the poison.

 

[D_Gunther Snotpole]

I think the chalice from the palace holds the brew that is true. It's the vessel with the pestle that holds the pellet with the poison.

Untoppable.
There is nothing left for the Rubester but to go to bed.:tongue: