Coach Comes Out, Later Loses Job

[LeeEJ]

But I can't help but believe that being gay and COMING OUT was part of the firing.

I know what you mean, but he was about to get fired before his players even knew he was gay. From how the team captain said it, if he had come out at any time earlier, they probably wouldn't have cared (me being optimistic again).

I rather doubt that COMING OUT helped his situation at all.

It especially didn't help how he was perceived & treated by other teams' players & coaches or by referees.

 

[Lex]

One of the reasons they gave him for his firing was his "reputation outside of the school."

Hmmm...

 

[Lex]

... I rather doubt that COMING OUT helped his situation at all.

It may not have helped his situation but I truly believe that every individual who chooses to come out and stand and be counted helps us all be raising awareness to this sturggle and issue.

In that respect, his coming out and his story being told helps OUR situation.

 

[GoneA]

Ehh...I wasn't trying to say he shouldn't have come out. I was saying that was why he was fired.

Misunderstanding is so frustrating.

It is -- especially so in this case because your post said:

[...] but if he had the strong winning record and THEN came out, it would be a different story

...and the article says:

Their 6-9 record marked the first losing season in Hawkins' nine-year tenure at Missouri.

Now, I ain't no sports expert, but that sounds like a strong enough record to me. However, if I've somehow misunderstood you, then I apologize.

If players don't respect and trust their coach, his effectiveness is diminished. I imagine the losing record is due to his compromised effectiveness as a coach.

I agree with Lex, that's bullshit. The article paints him to be an effective coach. If someone has infered otherwise, then they're factoring other variables into this equation that needn't belong there.

I don't know what happened with the firing, none of us do, it's not really our business to judge anyone in the situation, but we can give our opinions based on what we say we think may have happened

Yup, and that's exactly what we're doing.

 

[GoneA]

So this doesn't mean gay coaches can't be good coaches, but it may mean that gay coaches may need different strategies dealing with players in order to make his team successful.

I'm sorry, but this is even more bullshit. To your notion above, I ask: How? (And I really would like an answer.)

A middle-strategy doesn't exist in this type of situation -- either you come out, or you don't. He chose his decision, and the school chose theirs.

Furthermore, prior to this season, the coach's team had a very distinct winning streak. As it happens, the coach was gay then, too.

 

[ieatcats1426]

I'm sorry, but this is even more bullshit. To your notion above, I ask: How? (And I really would like an answer.)

A middle-strategy doesn't exist in this type of situation -- either you come out, or you don't. He chose his decision, and the school chose theirs.

Furthermore, prior to this season, the coach's team had a very distinct winning streak. As it happens, the coach was gay then, too.

He could have had a 200 game winning streak for all I care. As an athlete, I know if unusual information about my coach was released that I was previously unaware of, I might not be as willing to listen or work for him. I'm sorry I can not think of any examples that could be seen as a positive in this kind of situation, because I don't think many positive things are kept secret. Obviously part of the problem is the connotation of how gay people are. Unfortunately at the time being, that's life, and you can't change the way the athletes will see it. So if one of my coaches I found out was say marrying a woman he met the week before, I may question his handling of the team. I will be captain of this team next year too, so make sure to blast away at me.


I have no idea what the coach's coaching style was like. But if he was a really smash-mouth intense kind of guy, the athletes learning he was gay may rendered that ineffective. They may see him as soft and not able to back up what he was preaching to them.


It's really a combination of things, but as a closet gay, he knew what was coming with the territory. Does that make it his fault? no way, it's still society's fault I guess.

 

[playainda336]

Now, I ain't no sports expert, but that sounds like a strong enough record to me. However, if I've somehow misunderstood you, then I apologize.

And if he would have announced it in year eight, it would have been good timing...I'm talking about the timing in which he said it.

 

[GoneA]

Oh, so people are still fucking stupid. Ah, got it.

 

[playainda336]

...Stupid?

 

[GoneA]

...Stupid?

If you can't accept the fact that your coach is gay, then you sound pretty stupid to me.

And that's putting it nicely.

 

[Freddie53]

Originally Posted by Freddie53

... I rather doubt that COMING OUT helped his situation at all.

It may not have helped his situation but I truly believe that every individual who chooses to come out and stand and be counted helps us all be raising awareness to this sturggle and issue.

In that respect, his coming out and his story being told helps OUR situation.

I agree with you Lex. My comment was in reference to the theory that he came out to protect his job and that he would have been fired sooner but he came out and so it was now hard to fire him and and and and.

The record is nine seasons all winning and then one losingg season and fired for that? Two, three or four losing seasons after have great wining seasons is understandable, but just one 6-9 season and you're fired?

 

[GoneA]

One of the reasons they gave him for his firing was his "reputation outside of the school."

Hmmm...

His reputation outside of school? If anything, I'm sure he became an inspiration to gay men and women -- especially those in the closet.

Sounds like the makings of a good reputation to me.

 

[Lex]

And if he would have announced it in year eight, it would have been good timing...I'm talking about the timing in which he said it.

We addressed timing and I can not believe that you can be on a site where numerous people have talked of the difficulty in coming out and spout this bullshit. Remember when I said:

...

Coming out is much to difficult a process for me to believe that he could have machinated its timing for his employment benefit. I know I could not have and I don't know anyone who could do that, from the number of coming out stories that have been shared with me.
....

His reputation outside of school? If anything, I'm sure he became an inspiration to gay men and women -- especially those in the closet.

Sounds like the makings of a good reputation to me.

I agree. If he had a "negative reputation" it was only because people view his sexuality as something to be ashamed of and something deviant.

Call me a faggot al you want.

I will be, Lex the faggot educator with the doctorate who has worked his whole life to help students with disabilitioes, to train in- and pre-service teachers and, to drive systemic educational reform.

That sounds a lot better than insignificant straight guy. Thank you very much.

 

[playainda336]

If you can't accept the fact that your coach is gay, then you sound pretty stupid to me.

And that's putting it nicely.

I guess you're right about that. But I can't put myself in the mindset of why people can't see people as just people...so...=\

His reputation outside of school? If anything, I'm sure he became an inspiration to gay men and women -- especially those in the closet.

Sounds like the makings of a good reputation to me.

I think that if he had some momentous occasion happen to his team and then he had come out, then it would have been a different deal. It would have been, "I am very successful and have accomplished all of this...and I happen to be gay."

Much like:

Call me a faggot all you want.

I will be Lex, the faggot educator, with the doctorate, who has worked his whole life to help students with disabilities, to train in- and pre-service teachers and, to drive systemic educational reform.

That sounds a lot better than insignificant straight guy. Thank you very much.

Because it does.

But:

"Call me a faggot.

I will be Guy, the failed coach, who used to be good, but I decided to put my personal life in front of my job and I focused all of my time on being a coach who came out of the closet instead of being a good coach.

That sounds so much that insignificant, but productive, straight guy."

???

Seriously, if the guy was that good as a coach, they wouldn't have fired him because he was gay. I just can't see that as a possibility.

o_o;

Either way you look at it, the event was unfortunate...but it sounds like a Black guy who slacked off at a job and said, "They fired me because I was Black and the boss was racist!"

 

[LeeEJ]

I think that if he had some momentous occasion happen to his team and then he had come out, then it would have been a different deal. It would have been, "I am very successful and have accomplished all of this...and I happen to be gay."

Right; that's the way I see it.

But:

"Call me a faggot.

I will be Guy, the failed coach, who used to be good, but I decided to put my personal life in front of my job and I focused all of my time on being a coach who came out of the closet instead of being a good coach.

That sounds so much better than insignificant, but productive, straight guy."

???

A little harsh way to put it, but yeah -- I felt like the coach was having so many problems in his personal life (being disowned by his parents certainly didn't help at all) that it affected his coaching ability.

Here's another "what if" -- what if his parents fully supported him instead? What if his off-field personal life hadn't fallen to pieces? I'd think that he would have been able to continue focusing on being a good coach on the field and the team would still have an excellent record.

After watching the interview of the player in charge of the team, I never got the vibe that they didn't like the coach because of his sexuality. He sounded like every other modern college kid. Again, they were thinking of dismissing him not only because their record was slipping (many coaches get fired after their first losing season anyway) but also because their practices were neither fun nor productive anymore. The atmosphere had gotten pretty negative, especially in comparison to just a year or two before -- and that was still before the coach came out to the team.

In case anyone's forgotten -- the team was ready to find a new coach before this one came out as being gay.

 

[GoneA]

(...)
Seriously, if the guy was that good as a coach, they wouldn't have fired him because he was gay. I just can't see that as a possibility.

You can't? In America, people get fired everyday for being gay. In fact, it's legal to do so in thirty-three (33) states. In forty-two (42) states, it is legal to fire someone based upon gender identity. [source]

This is why the END Act is being introduced. Discrimination is very much alive and well in this country, I'm sorry to report.

Either way you look at it, the event was unfortunate...but it sounds like a Black guy who slacked off at a job and said, "They fired me because I was Black and the boss was racist!"

Except this coach didn't slack off; he lost one season. At best, that makes for an imperfect human being (or coach, rather). I'm sure no where in his contract was it delineated that every game-season must be won, and if not, then he is to be instantaneously fired.

The scenario you illustrated above is a brave endeavor, but I also think it is a knee-jerk correlation. When the school attempted to provide some justification as to why the coach was fired, they said:

Among the reasons they gave him: his negative image outside of the school, repetitive practices and player attrition.

The coach countered that with:

"Their complaints," Hawkins says, "were ridiculous."

Instead of providing hard and fast evidence to back their statements, the schools spokeswoman, Karen Mitchell, provided this flimsy excuse:

"That's his opinion." [...] "He is entitled to his opinion."

The only thing their statement is justifying is this opinion: The coach was fired because he was gay.

 

[GoneA]

I agree. If he had a "negative reputation" it was only because people view his sexuality as something to be ashamed of and something deviant.

Call me a faggot al you want.

I will be, Lex the faggot educator with the doctorate who has worked his whole life to help students with disabilitioes, to train in- and pre-service teachers and, to drive systemic educational reform.

That sounds a lot better than insignificant straight guy. Thank you very much.

I think I love you. That was AWESOME!

 

[Lex]

...

In case anyone's forgotten -- the team was ready to find a new coach before this one came out as being gay.

Please find the quote in the original article or the time stamp in the video where this information is found. Please link to them after you have found them.

This story began as ESPN showcasing the struggle and eventual coming out of the first openly gay coach in college athletics. It was meant to sow progress in the sport field (since none the the current gay players in any male sport feel safe enough to come out).

This man participated anonymously on a gay message board for a long period of time before mounting the strength to admit who he truly was to himself and the world. A lot of people here have done that. A lot of people here are thinking of doing that.

They had completed all filiming and SUBSEQUENT to filming (and eventual airing) the coach was fired. So, ESPN went BACK to interview both the coach and the players ex post facto.

Shrugging this off as "no big deal" or "not even worth discussion" totally places YOU as PART OF THE PROBLEM. YOU are why I was afraid to come out. YOU are why GoneA's BF got punched in the face by his dad after coming out. YOU are why Matthew Sheppard is dead. YOUR type of thinking and nonchallance in the face of bigotry allows it to grow and perpetuate.

If you are not part of the solution, you are a part of the problem. If you do not see that there is a problem, you are DEFINITELY part of the problem.

Try for once to see things from a perspective other than that of "Straight," "Christain," "male." Soon you won't have much choice (in the US) as you will be in the minority anyway. We're Everywhere.


Goner--I love you too, bro.

Muscle Pup Hugs.

 

[playainda336]

GoneA, the very evidence you provide is the least evidence on both sides.

First and foremost, let me say I'm sorry to hear that it's legal to fire someone for being gay. I had no idea...but I'm Black...you don't have to tell me discrimination still exists.

Going back to the argument, it sounds like the coach didn't give any hardcore reasons and the school didn't give any hardcore reasons and the only evidence I see is the fact that "If you don't explicitly say anything, people come to their own subjective conclusions about what the 'truth' of the situation is." I still can't honestly say that the coach was fired for being gay, but now I can't honestly say he wasn't.

Shrugging this off as "no big deal" or "not even worth discussion" totally places YOU as PART OF THE PROBLEM. YOU are why I was afraid to come out. YOU are why GoneA's BF got punched in the face by his dad after coming out. YOU are why Matthew Sheppard is dead. YOUR type of thinking and nonchallance in the face of bigotry allows it to grow and perpetuate.

If you are not part of the solution, you are a part of the problem. If you do not see that there is a problem, you are DEFINITELY part of the problem.

I don't think that's a fair statement.

Everybody doesn't see everything and cannot empathize and too say someone is "part of the problem" merely because they are ignorant to a fact is doing nothing to improve the situation.

 

[GoneA]

GoneA, the very evidence you provide is the least evidence on both sides.

First and foremost, let me say I'm sorry to hear that it's legal to fire someone for being gay. I had no idea...but I'm Black...you don't have to tell me discrimination still exists.

Thank you for your understanding and sympathy...it is well-received. My statement about discrimination, although true, was also uncalled for. It was the heat of the moment, and if I've somehow underestimated your life-experiences, then I apologize for that.

Going back to the argument, it sounds like the coach didn't give any hardcore reasons and the school didn't give any hardcore reasons and the only evidence I see is the fact that "If you don't explicitly say anything, people come to their own subjective conclusions about what the 'truth' of the situation is." I still can't honestly say that the coach was fired for being gay, but now I can't honestly say he wasn't.

The coach doesn't necessarily have to give hardcore reasons; his winning record backs him up. The burden of proof falls with the school, not the coach, in this instance.

Again, however, I thank you for your incipient recognition of both sides.