Code of Gentleman Chivalry

[13788]

leotaylor: Post Preview
Code of Gentleman Chivalry

Being a man that honors the Code of Gentleman Chivalry -openning doors for the young ladies,trying to be honorable toward,are those kind of men rare ?

I find most women still love a man to open doors for them and such,but I still alot of men acting like total clods in public.
Code of Gentleman Chivalry dead or simply rare.

 

[DerSchwanz]

Originally posted by leotaylor@Dec 29 2004, 03:51 PM
Post Preview
Code of Gentleman Chivalry

Being a man that honors the Code of Gentleman Chivalry -openning doors for the young ladies,trying to be honorable toward,are those kind of men rare ?

I find most women still love a man to open doors for them and such,but I still alot of men acting like total clods in public.
Code of Gentleman Chivalry dead or simply rare.

[post=270561]Quoted post[/post]​

I, too, believe in chivalry and behaving like a gentleman. Sadly, not only are there very few gentlemen around, there are also very few ladies.

I'm tired of holding the door open for some "lady," and have her just breeze through without a quick "thank you" or "thanks" as though she were the queen of the universe. And, why does it seem generational? The younger they are the more cloddishly they behave.

 

[jeepwranglerboi]

Originally posted by DerSchwanz+Dec 29 2004, 05:13 PM--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE(DerSchwanz &#064; Dec 29 2004, 05:13 PM)</div><div class='quotemain'><!--QuoteBegin-leotaylor@Dec 29 2004, 03:51 PM
Post Preview
Code of Gentleman Chivalry

Being a man that honors the Code of Gentleman Chivalry -openning doors for the young ladies,trying to be honorable toward,are those kind of men rare ?

I find most women still love a man to open doors for them and such,but I still alot of men acting like total clods in public.
Code of Gentleman Chivalry dead or simply rare.

[post=270561]Quoted post[/post]​

I, too, believe in chivalry and behaving like a gentleman. Sadly, not only are there very few gentlemen around, there are also very few ladies.

I&#39;m tired of holding the door open for some "lady," and have her just breeze through without a quick "thank you" or "thanks" as though she were the queen of the universe. And, why does it seem generational? The younger they are the more cloddishly they behave.

[post=270592]Quoted post[/post]​

[/b][/quote]

I totally agree with you&#33;&#33;&#33; I hate when I hold the door for people and they never say "thank you". I am not a freaking doorman&#33;

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

Is chivalry dead? Well, I know I&#39;ve heard quite a few women characters admit that on television and in movies.

My mom would insist that I open the door for her. That&#39;s a sign of good manners, so I do it. If I&#39;m in a hurry, I might let that courtesy slip, but if someone&#39;s right behind me -- man or woman -- I&#39;ll hold open the door.

I guess we could blame some people&#39;s parents for not teaching them a little bit of better etiquette. Of course, there are tons of media messages that teach people how to be rude, callous, judgmental, and spiteful to others, just to name a few negatives.

 

[txquis]

I was raised to do this as well, but i must admit to being miffed
when i get no thank you or acknowledgement for holding a door,
or allowing a female to pass in front of me, or get in front of me in line,
or take my seat on the train/bus.
How long does it take to smile and say thanks?
In fact, good manners dont get a positive response these days, i&#39;m afraid.
That is really sad, to me.

 

[soccerfanatic]

I&#39;m always very chivalrous and I&#39;ve noticed that people are too busy to even acknowledge what you&#39;ve done which is kinda irritating but nm, I do it cos thats how I&#39;ve been brought up, not cos I want to get praise or get in some lass&#39;s pants.

People do seem genuinely taken aback if you go out of your way to be polite, which is a sad reflection on how society is today.

It does annoy me though when you see women complaining about how men aren&#39;t gentlemen any more etc when they&#39;re not ladies either, women are just as selfish and ignorant as men are nowadays, there&#39;s very few genuinely decent people on either side of the gender barrier

 

[Freddie53]

Originally posted by leotaylor@Dec 29 2004, 10:51 AM
Post Preview
Code of Gentleman Chivalry

Being a man that honors the Code of Gentleman Chivalry -openning doors for the young ladies,trying to be honorable toward,are those kind of men rare ?

I find most women still love a man to open doors for them and such,but I still alot of men acting like total clods in public.
Code of Gentleman Chivalry dead or simply rare.

[post=270561]Quoted post[/post]​

Well we certainly have learned that one guy doesn&#39;t believe in chilvalry on the thread Clean Cut - New Asshole on LPSG

I have had my turn at being very ill. I have had former students and mothers of students who realized and knew how sick I was insist on opening doors for me.

I think chivalry can also include the stronger or younger of the two of two opening the door if there is a very noticable difference. or the host opening the door for the guest if both of very capable of doing so.

But if a person doesn&#39;t practice chivalry I don&#39;t get in a bind over it. I just remember the ones that say thanks.

And yes, even when I was ill, I always tried to get to the door for a lady. That was the way I was raised.

I opened the door for my students - boys and girls. It is amazing how much respect I got and how it cut down on discipline.

 

[naughty]

Gentlemen,

Please dont be afraid to be polite.It is a refreshing experience to have someone hold the door . pull out the chair, etc. Don&#39;t stop . These individuals have to be taught what true mannerliness is. Even if someone else is rude , we dont have to stoop to their level. I would like to say thank you to all of you who have been breezed past by some thoughtless female. Please keep it going.


Naughty

 

[benderten2001]

It will come as no surprise to those who regularly read my comments around here that I too, hold doors open for women; show politeness to them in public, and even allow them to go ahead of me in the grocery store line....(uhhh, sometimes).

However......I do feel in a minority (more and more&#33 in being so thoughtful.

I probably won&#39;t change my ways though. To me...putting a woman "first" by showing courtesy and consideration is how I was brought up and how men are "expected to treat women". Admittedly though, I don&#39;t notice other men doing this as much anymore. The younger men especially. Many of them--don&#39;t even know TO DO IT, perhaps. --Kinda sad.

I don&#39;t know that this "chevalry" has gone out of style as much as it&#39;s been (innocently or not?) PUSHED aside by changing times. Women&#39;s "movements for equality" seemed to be the start to some of these courtesies to them becoming....shall we say "less anticipated / less appreciated". I dunno. It does tick me off whenever I am nice to a woman and she just passes on by me almost smuggly, never acknowledging my thoughtfulness. I&#39;ve even been tempted to let the door hit&#39; on their proud behind just as they clear past me and see what they think of me THEN&#33; :angry: (REALLY&#33; I&#39;ve come mighty close several times to do this on some of my ...."bad days".) --I&#39;d probably next wind up in the pokey for some trumped up charge on "injury and battery", no doubt.

I appreciate our Naughty&#39;s comments though, to remain courteous to women.
--And, I probably will.

Now....having said all of the above, I would expect the women of the forum to smile the next time I happen to be holding the door for them&#33;

 

[DerSchwanz]

Originally posted by naughty@Dec 29 2004, 11:19 PM
Gentlemen,

Please dont be afraid to be polite.It is a refreshing experience to have someone hold the door . pull out the chair, etc. Don&#39;t stop . These individuals have to be taught what true mannerliness is. Even if someone else is rude , we dont have to stoop to their level. I would like to say thank you to all of you who have been breezed past by some thoughtless female. Please keep it going.


Naughty

[post=270670]Quoted post[/post]​

Speaking of pulling the chair out and other restaurant behavior, if you want to see really shocked looks on people&#39;s faces, get up when a lady approaches or leaves the table.

I&#39;ve stopped doing this just because I&#39;m the only man doing it, and women are too weirded out by it.

 

[madame_zora]

Chivalry is great and should be duly rewarded with similar politeness. I have even held the door for men, which usually really surprises them- they almost always say thanks. I also do it for anyone who has things in their hands, or the elderly, just common decency.

Lest any of us forget, LeoTaylor is the guy who stalked me to death. Despite this seemingly nice post, he&#39;s not getting the hint- NO MEANS NO&#33; Please go away, LeoTaylor, you&#39;ve been banned several times and I&#39;m sick of seeing you here. If you continue posting, I&#39;ll have to ask that you be banned yet again, take a fucking hint&#33;

 

[BobLeeSwagger]

What exactly is &#39;chivalry&#39; supposed to mean? Is being a gentleman really about opening doors and pulling out chairs? She can seat herself. Treat her as an equal and with respect and let these niceties happen where they may.

 

[longbaugh]

I wouldn&#39;t say its dead, just very rare, which is a real shame because its one very easy way for someone to improve themselves.
One nice gesture can improve someones whole day, making them treat people they meet with more respect.
It really is contagious.


OK more cock talk less lecturing

 

[naughty]

Dear Aloofman,

I think this is a perfect example of where the women&#39;s movement has had some glitches. Yes, I think we are all fully aware of the fact that women are physically able to do things for themselves.I think though that we are talking about a step above equality.The term is graciousness and I think it applies on either side of the gender line and any variation in between. I too hold the door open for men if I have arrived first , many times they relieve me of it and I try to thank them graciously. Clearly .I think we have gotten to the point where more extreme examples of male mannerliness ( seating women, opening the car door, standing when a woman enter the room, giving ones seat to the elderly,walking on the curb side, men paying LOL&#33; ) have gone the way of the dinosaur . Almost to the point where not only is there an awkward pause but women who have for a generation at this point had to do it for themselves not responding graciously or even quite knowing how to react. I am sure it is disheartening to any man who dares continue in the "old school" way of doing things. What is worse is that I have witnessed jaw dropping examples of young men and women being absolutely uncouth to anyone who dares speak to them about simple courtesies such as giving ones seat to the elderly. I fully understand that we all do not come to the table with the same sets of rules. Dee made a very valid point about manners not being taught at home. This is a major downfall. I know this is the age of self serve, but there are still luxuries on either side of the gender line that we can afford one another without sacrificing who we are. Graciousness is one of them.


Naughty

 

[longbaugh]

Very well stated Naughty.
I couldn&#39;t agree more
Thank You

 

[Freddie53]

Naughty,

Thanks for your wonderful response. You covered the subect well. I will add some comments.

I do believe that when each of us meet someone that is handicapped, is carry a load of materials and such, we should be gracious and help with opening the door and such. The gender here doesn&#39;t matter. It is a matter of being gracious around other people.

I also believe that in today&#39;s world, it is not the man, but the host that should follow rules of chivelry. Guests should be treated as guests. Gender doesn&#39;t apply here. Health does. Obviously if the host is invalid or in poor health that is different.

The rules for the elderly are very fluid. Some eighty year olds are still running two miles a day, playing 9 holes of golf, floating rivers and other physical activities. Some people at 65 are infirmed enough that they are feeble.

In general with a small group of people, the first able bodied person to the door opens it and holds it open for the group if the door has a automatic closure feature.

There is nothing wrong with hellos, thank yous and such even with strangers provided it is kept at just that unless the other person responds. Don&#39;t continue conversations and acts of graciousness to a person who wants to be left alone or does not indicate that they wish to accept your graciousness.

I will add that this is the first step in meeting people you want to meet as well. If they don&#39;t reciprocate then maybe you can meet them another time. If they are complete strangers, leave them alone. If they wanted to meet you, they would have reciporcated with some acts of graciousness in return.

In the modern world chivelry is not about male and female. It is about graciousness when you are just out and about and meeting people and being a good host and being a good guest in social and business functions.

I think our young people need to learn it. Children and teenagers should show proper respect to adults who are in leadership roles. Adults in leadership roles should set good examples of behavior for young people as well. But I don&#39;t think that children and teenagers should be required to continue showing graciousness and respect to an adult who is obviously being a jackass continuously. Respect for the position the adult holds yes. Respect for the adult jackass no.

Children and teenagers need to learn how to graciously say no to adults that are suspicious as well. If children were taught that as well, much child abuse, teen abuse and later adult abuse would be prevented at the earliest point of prevention. Showing graciousness at that point gives time for the child, teen or adult to graciously move away to a place of less potential danger and not alert the adult who appears suspicious to the potential victim what the true feelings inside are. Once an adult abuser realizes that the other person has his suspisions, the situation is awkward at best and possibly already dangerous. And if the adult is really a great person with no evil intentions then awkwardness is really established that wasn&#39;t necessary. In public it is difficult for an abuser to lure a potential victim away from the crowd if the potential victim can graciously say no while moving at the same time closer to friends or trusted adults that are around.

I am not talking here about when an abuser has already started advances toward the victim. At that point, the potential victim needs to get the hell out of dodge as fast as possible if there is an exit anywhere, but always toward a large crowd not toward an empty place of any kind where the victim would be helpless if physically weaker than the potential abuser.

Some might think what I added here is off topic of chivilry. I don&#39;t think so. I have watched people for years. Those who were taught how to act in public in a gracious way and no how to graciously enter and exit at all times, have far fewer episodes of being a victim than those who aren&#39;t taught that. That gives a major reason for teaching children an updated form of chivilry.

And it really helps people fend off people who want to hit on them. My mother taught me that. I saw her graciously many times put at length men who had made a come on to her. She never acknowledged the come on but graciously exited the situatiion and no awkwardness was there and there wasn&#39;t a second attempt by the man then or later.

I know some may say isn&#39;t talking about abuse off thread topic. I don&#39;t think so. Not if it is a valid way to fend off people who are entering your space uninvited. It gives a way to "shut the door" without fanfare and awkwardness. It gives a reason to teach the modern form of chivilry to our children.

I hope this other reason for some form of modern chivilry resonates with people here and things that I left out or need clarification are added.

And if you don&#39;t like the word chivilry fine. Give us another name to use in this 21st century world.

We need a woman&#39;s perspective on using graciousness or chivilry to entering and exiting situations, especially those that involve potential abuse whether it be verbal, physical, or sexual abuse. There may be other very appropriate ways that would apply to every one that could be shared.

Sure I know that the lineman for the pro football team has options that some of us weaker folks don&#39;t have. Deliberately setting up a physical confrontation would be disastrous in my case. I can&#39;t run and I am not physically able to get into a wrestling match with anyone much less a big strong physical person of either gender.

And I am editing this to add this extra comment. The age, gender, physical condition, and personality all do make a difference in the effectiveness of greeting people, handle opening door situations and particularly potential abuse situations.

Also the last item personality is a major factor. Some ways of handling things by one type of personality simply seems out of place for another type of personality. You have to consider your own personality and how you deal with things in deciding how to carry yourself in public in any situation whether it be a social, political. business, recreation or sadly troublesome situation that could lead to harm to your person.

 

[naughty]

Freddie53 and Longbaugh,

First and foremost, thank you. I thought that your comments were also quite timely and subtle in your target. I think the thread is fast moving from Micro (chivalry) to macro ( global"home training") here.
In terms of the internet, I believe that we are victims of the technology growing faster than the individual user&#39;s knowledge of the ever evolving ettiquette that accompanies it. Because it can be done anonymously, individuals with challenged social skills are better able to communicate. However, there are certain baseline rules that should be followed. I think even if one doesnt know the &#39;Rules of the road" so to speak, he or she should use the "Golden Rule" as a guideline in terms of when enough may be enough. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you". If it is something you would not do in normal course of daily real time life think twice about it online. I too have been having growing pains acclimating myself to the perceived freedom that the internet provides. Yet, this being a relatively new form of communication, we do not yet know what may come back to haunt any of us. Discretion,graciousness, and compassion are never out of style. Just as a car or its horn are not weapons to express bile or annoyance the net is a privilege not to be similarly abused.

Naughty

 

[13788]

skeelicious08: "
I&#39;m tired of holding the door open for some "lady," and have her just breeze through without a quick "thank you" or "thanks" as though she were the queen of the universe."

I&#39;ve never understood that. I ALWAYS say thank you because its always so pleasant to have a gentleman hold the door for me. Yet I have friends who never say thank you when its done for them.

 

[naughty]

Skeeliscious,

That only shows that they have no home training. But you know what to do.

Naughty

 

[madame_zora]

Freddie, that was truly beautiful, and I agree completely that chivalry is not just for men. Perhaps we need an updated word to better suit our times, but we all get the picture. Be kind to each other, and the most able bodied or "hands free" should get the door. Don&#39;t be insulting to the elderly who are in great shape, but be helpful to those it would help. Offer your seat on the bus to a pregnant woman, but it is no longer necessary to do it for any woman, unless you&#39;re so inclined. "Please" and "thank you" are always in style, and always will be, use them generously (as well as "pardon" and "May I").

As for the subject of appropriateness and warding off unwelcome attention, yes manners go quite a long way, but not in every situation. In public, yes- it gives one the pause needed to mentally regroup and asses one&#39;s next move, preferably to join a group or any other nearby person. Many "creeps" do try to take advantage of someone&#39;s potential social discomfort, so backing up and getting away is always the best bet. There are some occasions. however, where the creep in question does not respond to "No thanks, I&#39;d best be on my way now", and in those instances I feel that being loud and even rude are a better approach. I someone is trying to back me into a corner, either socially or in actuality, me drawing attention to myself eliminates the curtain of privacy he believes he is enjoying. I think this is a very important lesson to teach our youth, to whom very little of social grace is being taught. Our society is in a process of upheaval in regards to gender roles and "who is supposed to do what", so some kind words from those of us who are secure enough in ourselves to share these ideas may very well help arm our youth with the necessary tools to get through social situations, both good and bad. Yes, a basic ability to assess a situation and react accordingly is necessary, but don&#39;t be too embarassed to use your voice either to thank, to bless, to compliment, or even to chastise if need be.

The internet has spawned the need for a whole new set of do&#39;s and don&#39;ts. Naughty, I think you are wise to have inferrred the subtleties of Freddie&#39;s post. Most people feel a greater freedom in the anonymity we enjoy, but there are a select few who use this to the disadvantage of others. Shame on them. Once again, I think it will be no surprise that I think it&#39;s best to draw it out in public. I am not a mushroom, I don&#39;t like being kept in the dark and fed bullshit&#33; Exposure is a powerful things, it lets you choose your course of action rather than having someone else making your decisions for you. By the way, there is even proper ettiquette for chatting, emailing, etc. Be polite until the barriers of discomfort are slowly removed&#33; No one wants to get an email or pm about something very graphic or personal until they have established clear communication with you previously. "No" still means "no", even if the person talks to others but doesn&#39;t want to talk to you. If a woman (or man) has sex with someone that doesn&#39;t mean she owes sex to you, so likewise with conversation. Some personalities mesh better than others, accept a "no" graciously. Here&#39;s a personal favorite- if you&#39;re chatting online and the person you&#39;re talking to says they have to go- LET THEM&#33;&#33; Don&#39;t say "goodby" 4,953 times for the next two hours, just say goodby and leave them alone&#33; Don&#39;t beg them to stay online with you or use guilt to manipulate them. I guarantee they will dread talking to you the next time because whatever they were going to do in real life may have been impacted by your selfishness, and they won&#39;t be eager to repeat that.

As for this particular thread, I was hit up on chat by a stranger last night. Usually I ignore these things, but it was late so I accepted it. Turned out the person said "I&#39;m the asshole you plunked"- I must assume it&#39;s our good friend LeoTaylor who started this thread. How appropriate for someone who has had no respect for my boundaries to post a thread about manners&#33; By the way, Leo, since I can&#39;t seem to stop you from stalking me every way you can, I&#39;m going to tell everyone I can every time you contact me so everyone will know what a pathetic loser you are. Now run along and get some attention from someone who WANTS to spend time with you. If you weren&#39;t so creepy, it might be possible, but it&#39;s NOT ME&#33;&#33;