Cold approaching

sangheili90

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That happens to me also. When I try to flirt, I either can't get a signal across, or else I'm a lot less attractive than I thought.

However, when I'm not trying to flirt and just try to be friendly to a strange woman, suddenly every other word out of her mouth involves the phrase "my boyfriend," suggesting that she thinks I'm flirting.

Obviously, I need to think more like I'm making a friend when trying to flirt, but my own social ineptitude is frustrating. It's as if I keep sending those signals when I don't want to, and not sending those signals when I want to.

I think when a woman is approached by a guy she is most likely going to assume he is trying to pursue her.
 
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Doranq

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Advice is a bit scattered. All segments are coherent within themselves but the order is a bit random as I am elaborating upon what comes to mind in no particular order. General advice for a general question.




  • If you are sexually interested in them and actually want to have sex with them. I highly recommend making that known very very early on that you are at least interested in them sexually. This will help immediately let her know the nature of the relationship. Bear in mind she is still a person and really she isn't anything special until you make her out to be so. People like when you make your intentions clear. It saves everyone future heartache. Also be upfront for what you want from that person. You are looking for a one nightstand. Tell her. Don't lead her on to believe you want a relationship. That's cruel. Are you seeking a relationship? If you don't tell her perhaps she may think of you as a one and done or a fuck buddy. This leads to drama and heartache. No good comes from keeping one's intentions a secret. It's shady and it is not beneficial to you in the long run. Besides, who wants to be the asshole in her log of assholes she tells her friends about? Isn't helping your chances any.

  • There is also literally nothing to be nervous about. If you approach someone and they think you are an idiot... well guess what in 1hr-2 days max they will have already forgotten you. You won't be on their mind, they will have long replaced their brief memory of you with tests, homework, family, friends, events, sports, hobbies, drama, other people , etc. So really no pressure. Also. Groups. You can approach groups of women. Hit on all of them or one of them. That said if you choose to hit on one you must still give attention to ALL of them. Everyone of them. None will like to be left out and the one left out is the one that puts you out so to speak. You give all attention and the one you are interested in a lil more attention/slightly different attention. Side note. Most men won't approach a group of women, they don't have the nerve.


  • If she is not interested. Leave her be. Move on. End your pursuit. Maybe try in again later when she seems to be in a better mood, not busy, ill, w/e. After 2 attempts. Don't bother. Let her come to you. If she never does. Oh well, by then you have probably already have your eye one someone else. It's not worth expending your energy on one person. It is also not good to pursue someone who doesn't want to be pursued. That is basically harassment. You need to be considerate of her and her agenda. This is how you go from sweet to that creepy fucker I met a few months ago (that makes cameo appearances in her tales of creepy fucks I met before)

  • Talk to the women who you aren't interested in. Talk to men as well. You need to start working on your social skills. Also bear in mind that both women and men can get you laid/hooked up with other women who you will find to be very attractive. Networking is very important. It gives you more social value. You go from being random dude to being this awesome dude her friend knows. Big step up. People often date within their social network.



  • Alcohol. Don't use it. Many men rely on it as a crutch. It only hurts you in the long run. I advise against the use of alcohol as a form of liquid courage. It'll also prevent you from learning from your mistakes as things will become hazy and more easily forgotten not to mention you will be oblivious to things you otherwise would not be sober. Same goes for every kind of drug out there. If you want to pump yourself up. Listen to your favorite song, look in the mirror, do a quick 5-10 minute work out, shout as loud as you can when at home to release that tension. Do something. Whatever works for you, just don't rely on substances


  • Where do you go to meet women? You have options. Go someplace that you are interested in. You fucking love history. Go to a museum or perhaps a library. Like art, go to an art store, exhibit, or someplace related to the arts. Games you got conventions, stores, lan party buildings, etc. Go some place that is centered around shit you are interested in.
  • Option 2. Go some place where you see a lot of women. This is self explanatory. Use your eyes. You see lots of women go there. The only rule is you can only go where you are allowed to go. So no women's locker room ;) This can be on campus or in the public. Remember your domain is only limited by as far as you are willing to travel. Personally I'd go somewhere that revolved around what I find interesting. I find you will have a higher chance of finding a match.


  • Dates. Guess what. You can go on a date immediately when you meet a girl or in a week. Everything is depends on the situation. Though it's best to make the plans for no longer than 7 days in advance. People will tend to flake after words. Sweet spot is probably 5 days if not same day/moment. Many people believe you can't just go on a date when you meet someone. That is incorrect. You can, it depends on their schedule. If that is something you are into. That's why it is important to find out if they are busy. If they are not busy you can ask if they'd like to join you. Like maybe you want to go to that new smoothie shop that just opened. Invite her to go with you, after all you were going anyways. It should feel as though she isn't really change your schedule/you aren't changing yours. You are simply inviting her in a no pressure environment.
  • That is something very important to keep in mind. Women don't like to feel pressured. No one likes to feel pressured in doing things. When they feel pressured they do not feel comfortable around you. They do not feel safe around you. Long story short it is a good way to make them not to be around/with you. Side note you could invite her over to your place but I'd recommend to invite her to a public place first and then to your place. If she goes to the public place and all goes well it shows she is comfortable with you to some extent. That means she may be more likely to go with you for 1 on 1 time. Whatever you choose to do is whatever she is comfortable doing. This does not mean sex will happen. I want to stress just because she goes to your place does not mean you will have sex. She may not want it in the first place, may not feel comfortable with you in the first place, change her mind, cramps, the alien inside her is acting up. For whatever reason you have to respect that.


  • Don't lie about who you are. Don't put on any fake personas. Be the you who you'd be willing to be for the rest of your entire life. Why do I say it like that? If you go 200% version of you. She will come to like 200% you rather than 100% you. So overtime when you stop giving it 200%, in her eyes you are giving up, changing, is no longer the you that she fell in love with. So I say be a 105%. Just be a little bit better. Don't go above and beyond. Just be a little more considerate, a tad bit more fun, and a bit more open. Nothing hard to maintain. The reasons why you shouldn't lie is obvious. If she finds out you are something you are not then she will feel betrayed. She may no longer see you as the person she once liked. It hurts more because that is what you set the foundation of your relationship on.

  • You don't have to fuck, gf, wife every hot chick you meet. It's ok for nothing to come of it. It's fine for you to want nothing to come of it. That is natural. If anything a great approach is you accept what comes as it comes. You shouldn't look too far into the future. It puts pressure on yourself which in turn puts pressure on her and that is cancerous for your endeavors.


  • You have to touch her. You have to get her used to your touch. If you are wondering what the fuck I am talking about. Look at the very very very social people. Observe them. You will notice that they give small touches. Places like the arm, hand , should, upper back, leg, and sometimes a light tap to the stomach(back of the hand) This creates a feeling of closeness with a lot of people. In a sexual context it helps create a sense of intimacy. A build up to bigger touches like the small of her back, inner thigh, waist, bum, etc. You don't get to touch those things until she feels comfortable and secure with you. Not just as a person. But on a physical level. I'm pretty sure not one lady is going to have a story of an amazing guy that fucked her that didn't touch her before they got behind closed doors in some form or fashion. Depending on the touches themselves will determine the message you give. Eye contact works in unison. You want to have strong eye contact. A lot can be said with your eyes. Holding eye contact when say for example. You are sitting at a coffee table. You are both sitting across from one another. Her hands are on the table and she is leaning towards you. You grab her hands (yours are now under hers) has you hold them and gently rub the top of her hands with your thumb, all the while you have eye contact and are either listening to what she is saying or you are speaking to her. That's going to send a very specific message of "hey I'm really interested you, so much so that I want to touch you."
  • Find excuses to touch her. The number one rule is if you notice she tense up, feels uncomfortable, tells you to stop, or basically indicates " I don't like this ". You need to stop immediately. Back off. Stop touching her. Give her space. She isn't comfortable with you enough for you to touch her either in that way or period. Best bet is to dial it back, if you still feel she doesn't like it. Stop all together with the touching. Perhaps try a bit later on.
 
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Doranq

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  • REJECTION. 1st rule. Don't let it get you down. 2nd rule. Be polite, even if she is an absolute cunt in the way that she rejects you and publicly mortifies you. Be polite, don't try to get one back on her. Simply thank her for her time and be on your way. You never know who is watching. The reason why you be polite is for 2 reasons. Someone else may see/hear about your rejection and see that wow, you took it relatively well. That speaks well for you. Not to mention rejection is not always permanent. Perhaps that woman was in a relationship, was not ready for a relationship, whatever. She sees that you were a gentleman about it and she may consider to pursue you in the future. That said if you act like an asshat, you have forever closed that door and possibly every door that the woman is connected to. As for not letting it get you down. Go to google. Type hot woman. Millions of pics come up. MILLIONS. 1 woman turns you down? lol. Laughable. There are many many many more women whom you will find sexually attractive as well as intellectually attractive. There is absolutely no reason to be hurt.

  • Do you know how my first rejection felt? It felt as if I asked for a cookie while in a butcher shop. I felt a little dumb, a tad bit upset that I didn't have a cookie, It really didn't hurt at all. The fear of rejection is 999/1000 typically worse than the actual rejection. TBH I was legitimately disappointed. I was let down. That was it? That's it? She didn't spit in my face, mortify me, kick me in the balls, emasculate me, report me to the police. She politely turned me down. That's what most women are going to do. Some may add a lil stank on it, but it's not bad. *shrugs* The acceptance more than makes up for the rejections. Hell I had a girl said and I quote. "(____) I'd rape you if I wasn't already in a relationship" made my fucking day. Best rejection ever. Quirky girl I liked. We got along quite well, but guess what. If she ever were to break up with her bf, I know that I have quite a good chance. Had I never made the move, I wouldn't ever know. Hell she may of eventually lost attraction for me because she either thought I wasn't attracted to her or that I didn't have the confidence to approach her.


  • Hot women/really attractive women. Whatever is your type. Whatever is your 10. There is no such thing as out of your league. That's some bullshit. You work at walmart and bank 30k a year and she works at Wachtell,Lipton,Rosen & Katz and banks 780k a year? Guess what. She's still in your league. All you have to do is a decent person(morally speaking), fun for her to be around, and interested in her. That's it. Your looks isn't the be all end all. Your income isn't the be all end all. Does it help? Duh, it helps. I'd be a naive twit if I said it didn't. You are fortunate that you had the drive/motivation to work on getting the body that you have. Assuming your avatar pic is of you, you are pretty high on the looks scale anyways. So it's not something you necessarily have to worry about. All you need to focus on is whether or not you two get along. Don't worry about what she has/you don't have. Just worry about if you both have chemistry with one another. Successful women have dated men that aren't as financially successful before. Why? Because they loved the man. People psyche themselves and others out by creating this league bullshit. All it does is limit their potential dating pool. They essentially say this person is better than me. They view themselves as inferior and thus are viewed as inferior. Self fulfilling prophecy.
  • Additionally. The 10s. Approach them. Just because they are 10s do not mean they are approached all the time. A lot of the times they are never approached and are quite isolated. Men are too afraid to approach or assume she is already taken. Women hate on her for her looks and exclude her.
  • Hell maybe she is approached a lot. So? Do you think you are so inferior that she would say no to you? If you two are compatible, then there is a chance she will say yes. If you don't approach her she'll never say yes. If you do approach her she may say yes. Which seems to be the better option?


  • Be connected and network. I've brought this up before. This is something people don't bring up. Be the guy that connects others. The guy that makes stuff happens, that guy that set this person up with that person. Essentially make yourself a social hub. What does this do for you? One it makes your network expand vastly and rapidly. TWO and possibly more important. People will start providing your with opportunities in return for your networking. They will start introducing you to girls. Sometimes it will be in general, sometimes for dates, sometimes for straight up sex. Why? Because you hooked them up. You provided them social connections. So in return they pay you with social connections. It is not always women. Sometimes it is men. Like I said before. If your goal is women. Men will get you laid too. Lol both can act as your wingman as well. Which brings me to my next section
  • Get yourself a wingman or ideally a wingwoman. This says to someone. "Hey someone actually likes me enough to be around me. I'm a likeable guy." Now if it is a wingwoman. The message says. "Hey I'm more likely to be safe, I'm pretty likeable, AND women like to be around me so you'll probably want to be around me." That is a good message. You are coming from a better position than you would have had you been alone. :3 not to mention there are soooooooooooo many things you can do with the help of others that is not possible by yourself.
  • Hot women/really attractive women. Whatever is your type. Whatever is your 10. There is no such thing as out of your league. That's some bullshit. You work at walmart and bank 30k a year and she works at Wachtell,Lipton,Rosen & Katz and banks 780k a year? Guess what. She's still in your league. All you have to do is a decent person(morally speaking), fun for her to be around, and interested in her. That's it. Your looks isn't the be all end all. Your income isn't the be all end all. Does it help? Duh, it helps. I'd be a naive twit if I said it didn't. You are fortunate that you had the drive/motivation to work on getting the body that you have. Assuming your avatar pic is of you, you are pretty high on the looks scale anyways. So it's not something you necessarily have to worry about. All you need to focus on is whether or not you two get along. Don't worry about what she has/you don't have. Just worry about if you both have chemistry with one another. Successful women have dated men that aren't as financially successful before. Why? Because they loved the man. People psyche themselves and others out by creating this league bullshit. All it does is limit their potential dating pool. They essentially say this person is better than me. They view themselves as inferior and thus are viewed as inferior. Self fulfilling prophecy.
  • Additionally. The 10s. Approach them. Just because they are 10s do not mean they are approached all the time. A lot of the times they are never approached and are quite isolated. Men are too afraid to approach or assume she is already taken. Women hate on her for her looks and exclude her. Hell maybe she is approached a lot. So? Do you think you are so inferior that she would say no to you? If you two are compatible, then there is a chance she will say yes. If you don't approach her she'll never say yes. If you do approach her she may say yes. Which seems to be the better option?
 
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Doranq

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  • Be connected and network. I've brought this up before. This is something people don't bring up. Be the guy that connects others. The guy that makes stuff happens, that guy that set this person up with that person. Essentially make yourself a social hub. What does this do for you? One it makes your network expand vastly and rapidly. TWO and possibly more important. People will start providing your with opportunities in return for your networking. They will start introducing you to girls. Sometimes it will be in general, sometimes for dates, sometimes for straight up sex. Why? Because you hooked them up. You provided them social connections. So in return they pay you with social connections. It is not always women. Sometimes it is men. Like I said before. If your goal is women. Men will get you laid too. Lol both can act as your wingman as well. Which brings me to my next section
  • Get yourself a wingman or ideally a wingwoman. This says to someone. "Hey someone actually likes me enough to be around me. I'm a likeable guy." Now if it is a wingwoman. The message says. "Hey I'm more likely to be safe, I'm pretty likeable, AND women like to be around me so you'll probably want to be around me." That is a good message. You are coming from a better position than you would have had you been alone. :3 not to mention there are soooooooooooo many things you can do with the help of others that is not possible by yourself.


  • I obviously don't have to tell you to work out. You do that on your own. So *tips hat*. So instead things that you can improve. Your knowledge of current events, trends, movies, music, etc. Further pursue your hobbies and hone your skills of your craft/hobbies. Work on advancing through your chosen career path if you have chosen a particular career. Basically do you. Make sure to work on yourself for yourself. Create the person who you wish you could be that is attainable. Perhaps maybe pick up new skills. Can't speak spanish? Learn spanish, it'll open up new doors as well as allow you to talk to a huge portion of the population that otherwise you were barred from. Can't dance, go take dance lessons. Not only do you learn a new skill but it puts you in an environment where you can meet new people AND an added bonus it is co-ed physical contact :3 .
  • Go to the beach(if you have one.) Show off your body, the body you WORKED for. There are bound to be like minded women that value fitness in a similar way that you do. Flaunt what you have. Are you skilled at cooking? Be proud of that fucking shit. Don't be shy to share that info about yourself. (don't stuff down their throats) You want to make people aware of what makes you awesome. If you find yourself to be awesome. Someone else will appreciate you for that.


  • Sex. Don't sweat it. Look up Clitoris, Gspot, Cervix, Anterior Fornix, Posterior Fornix. Learn em and Love them. Read about how to go down on a woman. Nina hartely seems to have some videos and they tend to be a popular reference video that people suggest. For actual strokes. Consistency. That is important. You want a steady beat. Don't go at a beat that you can't maintain. You will instinctually know whether or not she is enjoying it. Either slow it down or Speed it up. Again keep a pace you can comfortably maintain. It's ok to go really fast from time to time. You just want to build up to it/hint at it through teasing. Ask her what she likes. Do what she said she likes so long as you are comfortable. Tell her what you like, tell her if what she is doing feels good. Simple stuff. Often overlooked.
  • As for how to touch her. TEASE. There is some really good shit on reddit for this. The basics are you don't want to initially want to jump to the fun bits like her ass, tits, vulva. You want to spend a lot of time on other areas as well as areas around those that I mentioned as "fun bits". Play mind games. Make her think you are going to touch something but then pull away and go play with something else. :| basically you gotta be a cock tease and make her beg you with her body to touch her. Here is a good link. www.reddit.com: For guys who are insecure in bed, here is how to pleasure your lady. Foreplay summarized. • /r/sex


  • Kissing. Another biggie. Here is my word of advice. Going with closed mouth is always safer than open. No one wants to feel like you are trying to eat their face off. When in doubt go with closed to slightly open mouth for a kiss. Then from there you just do what feels good to you. Note also don't just shove your tongue down her throat and be aware of how hard you bite her lip/tongue (if you choose to do so)


  • Bras. If you can. Find a way to practice taking them off. Ask a friend. Guy/Girl. Find a fat pillow or something similar to a body and practice taking it off with two hands and move to one hand as you get better. If all else just maybe google various clasps for bras. Remember some are in the front and some are in the back. If you can't do this. If you are ever with a girl. Just ask her to take it off. Don't sit there trying for 10 minutes, that's a turn off.

The End.
Get out there and go meet people.
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Doranq

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:| I couldn't post it as one thing.... I see a few that got repeated. Sorry.

The bulletins starting with. Be connected, Hot women,Get yourself a wingman,Additionally. The 10s got repeated

To the lack of an edit button
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SillyGayBoy

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Hey guys,

So this current spring semester is my first at the university I transferred to and I see a lot of really nice looking girls I'd like to talk to on campus but I have no idea how to do a cold approach. Is it a simple "Hi, I'm..... etc etc" or is it expected to have a lot of game. My classes are pretty much all guys, who are really nerdy and I don't have much in common with, so my easy route to talking to girls is kind of nonexistent at this point. I'm pretty sure I've seen girls checking me out but I'm not 100% sure since everyone wears sunglasses all the time and the campus being almost entirely outdoors lol.

The important thing is that you are confident in what you say, not necessarily what you say. There are videos of guys in fat suits picking up hot girls. It took confidence and that's all.
 

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Okay, I just read my own long ass post, and I feel I have to say to you, Mr. Sangheili, that this it is based on a number of assumptions I have made about you solely based on your posts on this forum, and further that it's put into a frame that fits my own experiences. This may not apply to you at all. If you're willing to read it, take from it what you can, and if there's nothing for you to take from it, just ignore the lot.

Many great things said in this thread. I will echo some of what Swoon has said. You seem to suffer from social anxiety, and I would guess that this doesn't only show in your interactions with women? Anxiety is worst when you're at your most vulnerable, when you have to face the thing that scares you the most. Learning to live with anxiety is about relishing the small victories and slowly building on them, one baby step at a time. At some point, what once felt like a small victory will seem like an insignificant occurrence. My advice to you is to accept in a very literal way that you have trouble communicating with women because you suffer from social anxiety and not the other way around, meaning that what you need to work on is dealing with the anxiety, not on communicating with women in a flirtatious manner. Meaning, and this is the last meaning for now, that you should accept that dating or picking up women probably just isn't in the cards for you just yet. Start at the bottom and work yourself up the ladder.

Some seven years ago, I was paid a visit by a massive panic attack. In one instant, I was completely incapacitated for a long time. It's a completely different thing. I was sure I was dying, but the exaggerated response to something that really holds no danger is kind of the same as what happens with people who suffer from social anxiety. After the panic attack, I became a complete shell of who I used to be and who I still considered myself to be. When I was home alone, I suffered from panic attacks all the fucking time. I couldn't be without my girlfriend, which obviously I had to do, as she couldn't babysit my all the time. This was my first step out of the slum, and it took time. The next step was to gradually learn that I wouldn't die from moving when I was alone. Then that I could eat without dying even when I was alone. And so on and so on. I was terrified of eating when no one was there to supervise how my system would react to the food, but I was no longer afraid of simply getting out of bed and walking to the kitchen. And things moved on like that, slowly but surely. Suddenly I would eat, but still the thought of leaving the apartment terrified me. Then I started to leave the apartment, but never for too long. At that point, I had no issue actually getting out of bed. And so things moved on. Gradually the things that once scared me would take a backseat to new things, until they didn't scare me anymore. By now I practically function like I used to do (though the anxiety isn't something you will ever completely get rid of). But though I wouldn't refrain from taking catching a completely empty airplane to NYC today, forcing myself to do so back then would have been catastrophic for my condition. You have to take the small victories, one tiny victory at a time, and make sure to give yourself a huge fucking high five when you come home with one of those small victories. You will get knocked back again and again, but if you refrain from taking on challenges that are too big at that specific point in time, things will gradually improve in general. Ever so often, I would take on a challenge that was much bigger than I could chew, which would knock me way back. Most people with anxiety do not learn from those massive defeats, they are only work to reaffirm their fears and worsen the anxiety. When people say "just approach her and ask her out, what's the worst thing that can happen?", they have, in most cases when it comes to people with anxiety, missed the point.

Okay, this is getting pretty long. My point is, of course, that just like catching an airplane to NYC all by myself wouldn't have been any kind of efficient way to deal with my anxiety back then (quite the contrary), you probably shouldn't be going for the big prize from the get go. Accept that it takes time, and start with interactions where rejection of some kind won't feel like a major defeat. Strike up random or meaningless conversations with guys you don't know and aren't going to become acquainted with anyway. Say something meaningless to the guy behind the cash register. Things like that. Whatever makes sense with regards to your specific anxiety. If you have no problems interacting socially with men, then have small conversations with women in settings where meaningless small talk is common and the potential for rejection is exceedingly small.

Also, the thing that helped me the most was telling my friends and family, literally everyone, about my condition. I have always been a very outgoing and social creature, and I was transformed from a loudmouthed idiot to a complete wreck from one day to another, so for me it was easy and only made sense to tell people about it. I know this is very different for you. My girlfriend suffers from social anxiety, and it took me years to convince her to tell her two best friends about it. I know this has helped her significantly. If you have a friend or family member close enough to you, I would really consider opening up about it if I were you. At least at some point.

And finally, consider seeing a psychologist to help you make a plan of how you can gradually overcome your anxiety.
 
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Oxnard

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LOL I'm a grower so I'm not sure if that would work for me or not.

I am involved with some activities, and they are all male dominated endeavors. All of my employment history has been with jobs completely dominated by male coworkers. I've literally never had any real experience interacting with women, other than relatives/family friends, so its really tough for me to figure this all out.
Then find an extracurricular activity.

Charity work might be good. Even if you don't meet anybody, you'll feel like you're accomplishing something.
 
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Okay, I just read my own long ass post, and I feel I have to say to you, Mr. Sangheili, that this it is based on a number of assumptions I have made about you solely based on your posts on this forum, and further that it's put into a frame that fits my own experiences. This may not apply to you at all. If you're willing to read it, take from it what you can, and if there's nothing for you to take from it, just ignore the lot.

Many great things said in this thread. I will echo some of what Swoon has said. You seem to suffer from social anxiety, and I would guess that this doesn't only show in your interactions with women? Anxiety is worst when you're at your most vulnerable, when you have to face the thing that scares you the most. Learning to live with anxiety is about relishing the small victories and slowly building on them, one baby step at a time. At some point, what once felt like a small victory will seem like an insignificant occurrence. My advice to you is to accept in a very literal way that you have trouble communicating with women because you suffer from social anxiety and not the other way around, meaning that what you need to work on is dealing with the anxiety, not on communicating with women in a flirtatious manner. Meaning, and this is the last meaning for now, that you should accept that dating or picking up women probably just isn't in the cards for you just yet. Start at the bottom and work yourself up the ladder.

Some seven years ago, I was paid a visit by a massive panic attack. In one instant, I was completely incapacitated for a long time. It's a completely different thing. I was sure I was dying, but the exaggerated response to something that really holds no danger is kind of the same as what happens with people who suffer from social anxiety. After the panic attack, I became a complete shell of who I used to be and who I still considered myself to be. When I was home alone, I suffered from panic attacks all the fucking time. I couldn't be without my girlfriend, which obviously I had to do, as she couldn't babysit my all the time. This was my first step out of the slum, and it took time. The next step was to gradually learn that I wouldn't die from moving when I was alone. Then that I could eat without dying even when I was alone. And so on and so on. I was terrified of eating when no one was there to supervise how my system would react to the food, but I was no longer afraid of simply getting out of bed and walking to the kitchen. And things moved on like that, slowly but surely. Suddenly I would eat, but still the thought of leaving the apartment terrified me. Then I started to leave the apartment, but never for too long. At that point, I had no issue actually getting out of bed. And so things moved on. Gradually the things that once scared me would take a backseat to new things, until they didn't scare me anymore. By now I practically function like I used to do (though the anxiety isn't something you will ever completely get rid of). But though I wouldn't refrain from taking catching a completely empty airplane to NYC today, forcing myself to do so back then would have been catastrophic for my condition. You have to take the small victories, one tiny victory at a time, and make sure to give yourself a huge fucking high five when you come home with one of those small victories. You will get knocked back again and again, but if you refrain from taking on challenges that are too big at that specific point in time, things will gradually improve in general. Ever so often, I would take on a challenge that was much bigger than I could chew, which would knock me way back. Most people with anxiety do not learn from those massive defeats, they are only work to reaffirm their fears and worsen the anxiety. When people say "just approach her and ask her out, what's the worst thing that can happen?", they have, in most cases when it comes to people with anxiety, missed the point.

Okay, this is getting pretty long. My point is, of course, that just like catching an airplane to NYC all by myself wouldn't have been any kind of efficient way to deal with my anxiety back then (quite the contrary), you probably shouldn't be going for the big prize from the get go. Accept that it takes time, and start with interactions where rejection of some kind won't feel like a major defeat. Strike up random or meaningless conversations with guys you don't know and aren't going to become acquainted with anyway. Say something meaningless to the guy behind the cash register. Things like that. Whatever makes sense with regards to your specific anxiety. If you have no problems interacting socially with men, then have small conversations with women in settings where meaningless small talk is common and the potential for rejection is exceedingly small.

Also, the thing that helped me the most was telling my friends and family, literally everyone, about my condition. I have always been a very outgoing and social creature, and I was transformed from a loudmouthed idiot to a complete wreck from one day to another, so for me it was easy and only made sense to tell people about it. I know this is very different for you. My girlfriend suffers from social anxiety, and it took me years to convince her to tell her two best friends about it. I know this has helped her significantly. If you have a friend or family member close enough to you, I would really consider opening up about it if I were you. At least at some point.

And finally, consider seeing a psychologist to help you make a plan of how you can gradually overcome your anxiety.
May I ask, what do you think triggered your panic attacks and sudden loss of confidence?
 
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May I ask, what do you think triggered your panic attacks and sudden loss of confidence?
+1
Someone dear to me has started experiencing them in the last few weeks - your post has been incredibly insightful @Brisler because they have the tendency to downplay things and I think I may have underestimated what they are going through
 
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May I ask, what do you think triggered your panic attacks and sudden loss of confidence?

Of course, but I can't give a decisive answer. There were episodes prior to my first major panic attack (which was the most terrifying thing I have experienced... I have described it slightly more detailed here: Error | LPSG that I, in hindsight, can easily conclude to be signs of panic anxiety. Like having to leave super markets because of discomfort, continuously feeling faint and unease when using public transportation. Stuff like that. I wish I paid more attention to it back then, but I don't know if I could have done anything to avoid the downfall. Back then I just brushed it off and really didn't think twice about it after the discomfort disappeared.

What I am sure of is that I'm to some degree predisposed. My father has struggled with anxiety in his 20's. He's learned to live with it to such degree that I didn't even know about it. But when I told him how I felt, he immediately recognized it. I think he feels bad for not opening up about his condition to me earlier, but once again I don't know if it would have made any difference. I know that telling me about it, which means that my sisters now also know (more) about his previous condition, has helped relieve the part of anxiety that still lives within his body. It is something my father's brothers have struggles with as well.

Another thing that I'm sure has been a trigger is unhealthy lifestyle habits. In my late teens and early 20's i spent a lot of time touring with some musical projects, sleeping wherever a bed was available, most of the time hardly sleeping at all, drinking a lot and doing drugs here and there. My collapse came not long after a binge of that sort. I am sure it was a major trigger. I still recognize those things as major triggers. Sleep deprivation is fuel for anxiety. Alcohol relieves (my) anxiety significantly, but in turn it exacerbates it multiple times the day after. It's still like that (I don't do drugs of any kind anymore, but I do enjoy the occasional drunken stupor). I'm sure unhealthy foods would add to that, but I've never been one to succumb to that in a sinful way.

On the other hand, to someone who's beginning to suffer from anxiety, what I think would help the most is: Awareness, acceptance, openness, sleep, diet and exercise. I don't have it in me to meticulously keep a diet, control my sleeping pattern or force myself to keep an exercise schedule, so there are ways around it without becoming a health nut. I didn't want this thing to turn me into a completely different person, so I still get drunk with my friends when time allows it, I still stay up all night making terrible noise on whatever instrument catches my fancy and I still smoke 20 cigarettes a day. The binges and the drugs are a thing of the past, though.

+1
Someone dear to me has started experiencing them in the last few weeks - your post has been incredibly insightful @Brisler because they have the tendency to downplay things and I think I may have underestimated what they are going through

What kind of anxiety do you suspect he or she is experiencing?
 
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What kind of anxiety do you suspect he or she is experiencing?

Well he's been going through a very stressful period (divorce, custody etc) and he had a pretty big panic attack about a month ago and has been having them daily (to varying degrees) since.

He lives a couple of hours away, so I've never seen one of them, but I know they're bad simply because he told me about them and he wouldn't have otherwise. Personally, I think the stress caused it - he's completely averse to conflict of any kind. He's hinted that they're debilitating when it happens, but he's a doctor and stubborn and I think he feels it's somehow a sign of weakness on his part so it's hard to get a full picture.

He lives alone, so I've persuaded him to call or text me when it happens - which he has been doing - and he says it helps, but I don't know if he's just humouring me. I want to help him, but I feel a bit helpless because I don't really understand them...
 

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Well he's been going through a very stressful period (divorce, custody etc) and he had a pretty big panic attack about a month ago and has been having them daily (to varying degrees) since.

He lives a couple of hours away, so I've never seen one of them, but I know they're bad simply because he told me about them and he wouldn't have otherwise. Personally, I think the stress caused it - he's completely averse to conflict of any kind. He's hinted that they're debilitating when it happens, but he's a doctor and stubborn and I think he feels it's somehow a sign of weakness on his part so it's hard to get a full picture.

He lives alone, so I've persuaded him to call or text me when it happens - which he has been doing - and he says it helps, but I don't know if he's just humouring me. I want to help him, but I feel a bit helpless because I don't really understand them...

That definitely sounds stress related. If it is caused by stress, there's a good chance that they will disappear once things settle down for him. Let's hope so, at least. Stress and anxiety are common companions.

Anxiety is a weird thing. I think you're doing a great job helping him by just letting him know that you're available. Trying to understand the panic attacks is futile anyway. The only person that's come close to understanding mine is my father because his are extremely similar. Other people I've talked to with anxiety don't understand mine, and I don't understand theirs. They do, however, understand how debilitating anxiety can be.

I never expected or wanted my friends to understand my condition (it was common for them to express a desire to understand it), because I was well aware that my anxiety attacks were nonsensical, illogical and irrational. I knew very well that I wasn't going to die, I knew that I had no disease (believe you me, I was checked from head to ass) and I knew that my heart was a-okay. I just couldn't convince some stupid nerve cells in my brain to agree with me. So in essence, there's nothing to understand.

The thing that helped me from friends were them letting me know that I could always call, any time, if I needed someone to come over or talk to or whatever. Just being aware that there was always someone to pick up the phone helped a lot. The only thing I needed from them was to understand that I needed a sense of distraction of security. They didn't have to understand anything. They just had to take it seriously (and believe me, the anxiety attacks can be extremely ridiculous). Gradually, that helped me realize what I needed to do to relieve my anxiety and what would help me move on from it. They didn't understand, they didn't know, I didn't understand and I didn't know. It was something I needed to learn. If I were him, the fact that you've stated that you're always ready to pick up the phone and talk or drive to his home should it be required would mean a hell of a lot to me. And if his anxiety is anything like mine, calling or texting you when it happens actually does help. I would, and I did, use offers like that ad nauseam.

So yeah, I think you've done a very nice job so far. You've already established that you're there for him. All you can really do is to reassure him that you will continue to be so if he ever doubts or if he starts feeling like he's becoming an annoyance.

Other than that, I would focus on helping him sort out the external factors that are most likely causing his anxiety. It sounds like he's going through some really shitty stuff right now. Help him get through that like you would for any other friend. And beware of depression.

I wish you both the best of luck. May he recover soon!
 
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That definitely sounds stress related. If it is caused by stress, there's a good chance that they will disappear once things settle down for him. Let's hope so, at least. Stress and anxiety are common companions.

Anxiety is a weird thing. I think you're doing a great job helping him by just letting him know that you're available. Trying to understand the panic attacks is futile anyway. The only person that's come close to understanding mine is my father because his are extremely similar. Other people I've talked to with anxiety don't understand mine, and I don't understand theirs. They do, however, understand how debilitating anxiety can be.

I never expected or wanted my friends to understand my condition (it was common for them to express a desire to understand it), because I was well aware that my anxiety attacks were nonsensical, illogical and irrational. I knew very well that I wasn't going to die, I knew that I had no disease (believe you me, I was checked from head to ass) and I knew that my heart was a-okay. I just couldn't convince some stupid nerve cells in my brain to agree with me. So in essence, there's nothing to understand.

The thing that helped me from friends were them letting me know that I could always call, any time, if I needed someone to come over or talk to or whatever. Just being aware that there was always someone to pick up the phone helped a lot. The only thing I needed from them was to understand that I needed a sense of distraction of security. They didn't have to understand anything. They just had to take it seriously (and believe me, the anxiety attacks can be extremely ridiculous). Gradually, that helped me realize what I needed to do to relieve my anxiety and what would help me move on from it. They didn't understand, they didn't know, I didn't understand and I didn't know. It was something I needed to learn. If I were him, the fact that you've stated that you're always ready to pick up the phone and talk or drive to his home should it be required would mean a hell of a lot to me. And if his anxiety is anything like mine, calling or texting you when it happens actually does help. I would, and I did, use offers like that ad nauseam.

So yeah, I think you've done a very nice job so far. You've already established that you're there for him. All you can really do is to reassure him that you will continue to be so if he ever doubts or if he starts feeling like he's becoming an annoyance.

Other than that, I would focus on helping him sort out the external factors that are most likely causing his anxiety. It sounds like he's going through some really shitty stuff right now. Help him get through that like you would for any other friend. And beware of depression.

I wish you both the best of luck. May he recover soon!

That's really, really helpful - thank you. He said it was helpful that we had established a routine of checking in every half an hour on Saturday (he was having a bad day) and that acknowledging that they were happening seemed to be reducing the severity/duration, but I was worried he was just saying that for *my* benefit. It seems to fit in with what you're saying though, so that's a relief. He bottles things up so I'm convinced it's an outpouring of stress/emotion that he's not expressing any other way because, well, he does bottle things up and keeps his own counsel usually and I managed to keep him distracted after dropping his kids off on Sunday and he staved off a mini attack by calling me as it was starting which made him more optimistic... but then he woke in the middle of the night with a nightmare/attack for the first time unfortunately. Almost like it was determined to come out somehow.

I don't wait until he contacts me - I keep texting that I'm here if he needs me because I don't want him to start doubting if he should get in touch, but it's an incredibly helpless feeling. I'm pretty sure me slapping his ex into next week would help sort out the external factors, but it's really not my place. Unfortunately.

Thanks for the well wishes, you've put my mind at rest x
 
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That's really, really helpful - thank you. He said it was helpful that we had established a routine of checking in every half an hour on Saturday (he was having a bad day) and that acknowledging that they were happening seemed to be reducing the severity/duration, but I was worried he was just saying that for *my* benefit. It seems to fit in with what you're saying though, so that's a relief. He bottles things up so I'm convinced it's an outpouring of stress/emotion that he's not expressing any other way because, well, he does bottle things up and keeps his own counsel usually and I managed to keep him distracted after dropping his kids off on Sunday and he staved off a mini attack by calling me as it was starting which made him more optimistic... but then he woke in the middle of the night with a nightmare/attack for the first time unfortunately. Almost like it was determined to come out somehow.

I don't wait until he contacts me - I keep texting that I'm here if he needs me because I don't want him to start doubting if he should get in touch, but it's an incredibly helpless feeling. I'm pretty sure me slapping his ex into next week would help sort out the external factors, but it's really not my place. Unfortunately.

Thanks for the well wishes, you've put my mind at rest x

I am happy to help. Needless to say, these are just my experiences and don't apply to everyone with anxiety problems. But it does sound like you've taken the right course of action so far, and it matches up perfectly with what would have helped me.

Also, it sounds like this is all new to him, so he might be eager to talk about it and learn how it affects his body and mind. I will say, though, that when I was at my worst, I wouldn't want my interactions to be about anxiety, unless I was immediately suffering from the an emerging panic attack, a full blown panic attack or a waning panic attack. In the time in between attacks, I didn't want to focus on it, as it would only put me into a state of mind where I anticipated the next one, which would make it happen sooner than it otherwise would.

But yeah. Just listen to his words, as I'm sure you already are, and soon enough you will learn more about his routines and what he needs.

I feel like it's possible for him to move past this as soon as the storm in his life has calmed down. He's lucky to have you help him through it. It will significantly decrease the risk of the whole thing developing into a depression, which is a very different beast.

For a chick, you're a pretty cool dude, BacknForth.
 
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I am happy to help. Needless to say, these are just my experiences and don't apply to everyone with anxiety problems. But it does sound like you've taken the right course of action so far, and it matches up perfectly with what would have helped me.

Also, it sounds like this is all new to him, so he might be eager to talk about it and learn how it affects his body and mind. I will say, though, that when I was at my worst, I wouldn't want my interactions to be about anxiety, unless I was immediately suffering from the an emerging panic attack, a full blown panic attack or a waning panic attack. In the time in between attacks, I didn't want to focus on it, as it would only put me into a state of mind where I anticipated the next one, which would make it happen sooner than it otherwise would.

But yeah. Just listen to his words, as I'm sure you already are, and soon enough you will learn more about his routines and what he needs.

I feel like it's possible for him to move past this as soon as the storm in his life has calmed down. He's lucky to have you help him through it. It will significantly decrease the risk of the whole thing developing into a depression, which is a very different beast.

For a chick, you're a pretty cool dude, BacknForth.

It's funny you should say that about not wanting all interactions to be about the anxiety - I've been sending the 'I'm here if you need me texts' under the guise of 'this meme/ecard made me laugh' because I sense he feels the same way as you

Thanks again x
 
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Of course, but I can't give a decisive answer. There were episodes prior to my first major panic attack (which was the most terrifying thing I have experienced... I have described it slightly more detailed here: Error | LPSG that I, in hindsight, can easily conclude to be signs of panic anxiety. Like having to leave super markets because of discomfort, continuously feeling faint and unease when using public transportation. Stuff like that. I wish I paid more attention to it back then, but I don't know if I could have done anything to avoid the downfall. Back then I just brushed it off and really didn't think twice about it after the discomfort disappeared.

What I am sure of is that I'm to some degree predisposed. My father has struggled with anxiety in his 20's. He's learned to live with it to such degree that I didn't even know about it. But when I told him how I felt, he immediately recognized it. I think he feels bad for not opening up about his condition to me earlier, but once again I don't know if it would have made any difference. I know that telling me about it, which means that my sisters now also know (more) about his previous condition, has helped relieve the part of anxiety that still lives within his body. It is something my father's brothers have struggles with as well.

Another thing that I'm sure has been a trigger is unhealthy lifestyle habits. In my late teens and early 20's i spent a lot of time touring with some musical projects, sleeping wherever a bed was available, most of the time hardly sleeping at all, drinking a lot and doing drugs here and there. My collapse came not long after a binge of that sort. I am sure it was a major trigger. I still recognize those things as major triggers. Sleep deprivation is fuel for anxiety. Alcohol relieves (my) anxiety significantly, but in turn it exacerbates it multiple times the day after. It's still like that (I don't do drugs of any kind anymore, but I do enjoy the occasional drunken stupor). I'm sure unhealthy foods would add to that, but I've never been one to succumb to that in a sinful way.

On the other hand, to someone who's beginning to suffer from anxiety, what I think would help the most is: Awareness, acceptance, openness, sleep, diet and exercise. I don't have it in me to meticulously keep a diet, control my sleeping pattern or force myself to keep an exercise schedule, so there are ways around it without becoming a health nut. I didn't want this thing to turn me into a completely different person, so I still get drunk with my friends when time allows it, I still stay up all night making terrible noise on whatever instrument catches my fancy and I still smoke 20 cigarettes a day. The binges and the drugs are a thing of the past, though.



What kind of anxiety do you suspect he or she is experiencing?
That is incredibly helpful, thank you
 
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I see you are in AZ. I too went to college in AZ (U of A). Unlike you I had plenty of classes with girls, but that wasn't my main goal (i.e. gay). What I did was just start hanging around areas where there were people more my type. Worked like a charm. There is always the local college bar / coffee shop thing as well. Just cold approaching on campus as they are walking? Probably kinda awkward. Cold approaching if they are reading a book or something? As long as you're polite, let them know you think they're really pretty, and wanted to know what they were into? That might work.

On the flip side I got cold approached by a woman in college and it sort of confused the heck out of me. Everything happened so fast I had no real idea how to respond. We ended up being friends though.

Turns out we had gone to HS together. I didn't remember her to save my life - she was a year ahead of me. We had Art History together, and she recognised me and approached me after class as I was walking to another. She had the upper hand, knew my name, etc, asked me to hang out with her, handed me her number and left.

It took me about an hour to realize what had just happened. *shrug* She was very assertive about it (and incredibly beautiful as well). You of course have great looks / body / whole package. Just think carefully about how YOU would want to be approached.
 

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Man, that was such a hard thing for me. I'm a pretty good looking guy, I'd like to think. So many times, I would be walking past a cute girl, going the opposite way, and our eyes would meet and she'd give me a big smile. I would just give a weak smile back, and we'd go our way, ships passing in the night.

But it would drive me crazy, thinking "Was she interested in me?" I just had such bad social anxiety, walking up to and talking to anybody out of nowhere was so uncomfortable for me. I'd get a dizzy swimming feeling, like an out of body experience, and couldn't really bring myself to say anything. Walking in opposite directions especially.

There was a cute blonde in one of my classes, that I fantasized about all the time. I noticed she would smoke a cigarette after class, walking back to her car. Our cars were in the same lot. One day I could tell she was close behind me, I had been thinking about it for weeks. I knew this is my chance. I got that dizzy feeling, but I forced myself to turn and say "Hey, can I get a cigarette?" Haha some pick up line, but I asked her something about class, and the dam was busted open, we walked and talked for five straight minutes, and I felt at ease. Unfortunately I found out she had a boyfriend so I left it at that.


A friend of mine who didn't have the best looks, but he was just so confident, he walked with his shoulders back and chest out, looked people directly in the eye, he had the gift of being able to talk to anybody. One day, we went to a football game together, and were passing a couple chicks, and he said "Hey, cutie." Real confident, and it worked. We stopped and talked for a minute, mostly him doing the talking and me feeling awkward.

But it was all about his confidence. So I'd say, even if it's uncomfortable as hell, just force yourself to do it, every good opportunity you see. Nothing bad can come of it, and it might be great, but the point is that you are diving in the water, and over time, it will get easier, you learn what works and what doesn't.

I have gained so much confidence in my ability to converse with people over the years, and it is because I made myself uncomfortable so many times. I still don't know that I could pull a chick walking by, but I've started many conversations if a girl is standing around or looks bored. You just look for any opening, any question you can ask, and start from there. Once the initial contact is made, it's so much easier to keep the conversation up. If you can't think of anything else to say, people love talking about themselves, so just ask questions, the best ones that pop into your head, and show interest.

Good luck man!
 

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Man, that was such a hard thing for me. I'm a pretty good looking guy, I'd like to think. So many times, I would be walking past a cute girl, going the opposite way, and our eyes would meet and she'd give me a big smile. I would just give a weak smile back, and we'd go our way, ships passing in the night.

But it would drive me crazy, thinking "Was she interested in me?" I just had such bad social anxiety, walking up to and talking to anybody out of nowhere was so uncomfortable for me. I'd get a dizzy swimming feeling, like an out of body experience, and couldn't really bring myself to say anything. Walking in opposite directions especially.

There was a cute blonde in one of my classes, that I fantasized about all the time. I noticed she would smoke a cigarette after class, walking back to her car. Our cars were in the same lot. One day I could tell she was close behind me, I had been thinking about it for weeks. I knew this is my chance. I got that dizzy feeling, but I forced myself to turn and say "Hey, can I get a cigarette?" Haha some pick up line, but I asked her something about class, and the dam was busted open, we walked and talked for five straight minutes, and I felt at ease. Unfortunately I found out she had a boyfriend so I left it at that.


A friend of mine who didn't have the best looks, but he was just so confident, he walked with his shoulders back and chest out, looked people directly in the eye, he had the gift of being able to talk to anybody. One day, we went to a football game together, and were passing a couple chicks, and he said "Hey, cutie." Real confident, and it worked. We stopped and talked for a minute, mostly him doing the talking and me feeling awkward.

But it was all about his confidence. So I'd say, even if it's uncomfortable as hell, just force yourself to do it, every good opportunity you see. Nothing bad can come of it, and it might be great, but the point is that you are diving in the water, and over time, it will get easier, you learn what works and what doesn't.

I have gained so much confidence in my ability to converse with people over the years, and it is because I made myself uncomfortable so many times. I still don't know that I could pull a chick walking by, but I've started many conversations if a girl is standing around or looks bored. You just look for any opening, any question you can ask, and start from there. Once the initial contact is made, it's so much easier to keep the conversation up. If you can't think of anything else to say, people love talking about themselves, so just ask questions, the best ones that pop into your head, and show interest.

Good luck man!

If I can learn how to approach in a public setting I'd be good to go, really need to work on developing this skill.