college. yay or nay? i say HELL to the NAY!

[tgirlsrgreat]

Nothing at all, because we know the job market treats blacks as equals to whites.

*cue study from last year, the year before that, and the year before that where applicants named Quanisha and Tyrell are passed over for Bradley and Jennifer*

i have literally hired hundreds over my career and here is my underlying mantra that i have also passed on to hiring managers that reported to me.... HIRE THE SMART ONES!!! it matters not one whit amber, quinisha, tyrone, julio, ng, tyler, who gives a f(&K don't let your own bias get in the way is my position.... hire the smart ones and if their life experiences enhance that, all the better.

 

[marleyisalegend]

i have literally hired hundreds over my career and here is my underlying mantra that i have also passed on to hiring managers that reported to me.... HIRE THE SMART ONES!!! it matters not one whit amber, quinisha, tyrone, julio, ng, tyler, who gives a f(&K don't let your own bias get in the way is my position.... hire the smart ones and if their life experiences enhance that, all the better.

Kudos to you, unfortunately not everyone shares your colorblind view. If such were not the case we would've had a black president LONG before 2008. The same goes for women, female president TBA.

 

[Rikter8]

*cue study from last year, the year before that, and the year before that where applicants named Quanisha and Tyrell are passed over for Bradley and Jennifer*

Yes....but this is a double edged sword. Discrimination is on both sides of the fence.

This may be a dumb suggestion...but why not name your children common names to blend in with the rest of the world. There are thousands of names to choose from.

Shanista Scrumpolicious Brown doesn't look good on a resume OR a business card.

 

[marleyisalegend]

Yes....but this is a double edged sword. Discrimination is on both sides of the fence.

Huh?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

This may be a dumb suggestion...but why not name your children common names to blend in with the rest of the world. There are thousands of names to choose from.

My name is not.... Toby. I'm KUNTA KINTE!!

Seriously, if the issue is discrimination (which the majority is based on a person's looks than anything else), then what would be the point of adopting a more common name? A minority with the name James is going to be unfairly judged just like the one named Jamal, Jin or Jose (just to name a few).

 

[tgirlsrgreat]

Kudos to you, unfortunately not everyone shares your colorblind view. If such were not the case we would've had a black president LONG before 2008. The same goes for women, female president TBA.

we will have a lady soon enough, let's just hope she has brains and does not know how to skin a moose!! it took us just under 200 years to elect (i could care less) a catholic, why do you think a mixed race black man would be any quicker? p.s. i voted for him and will again!

 

[marleyisalegend]

This may be a dumb suggestion

This is the smartest thing I've ever heard you say.

Shanista Scrumpolicious Brown doesn't look good on a resume OR a business card.

Yeah, to raci--- people who valorize Anglo culture. Theoretically, your concern should be how Shanista does her job, not how her name appears on a card, which sounds like an utterly pathetic thing to focus on. Would changing her name from Shanista to Carla have any impact whatsoever on her job performance?

Sorry, urban culture isn't going to go anywhere no matter how many Tyrrell's you refuse to hire.

 

[Rikter8]

Seriously, if the issue is discrimination (which the majority is based on a person's looks than anything else), then what would be the point of adopting a more common name?

Because it would (hopefully) "Blind" a person from stereotyping.
The resume is supposed to do that anyway. That's the point...you get a pile of them, you compare skills like marleyisalegend said, and make a decision.

 

[marleyisalegend]

Because it would (hopefully) "Blind" a person from stereotyping.

I guess I should stop walking around late at night to cater to people who stereotype me as likely to rob them. :wink: Isn't that how it works? The subject of stereotypes bends and caters until they're exactly what the stereotyper wants them to be.

 

[Rikter8]

This is the smartest thing I've ever heard you say.

Quit being a bitch and get back on topic. Do you want to talk Race or you want to talk about College?

If you want to talk race, then re-name the thread.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Because it would (hopefully) "Blind" a person from stereotyping.

...only for them to "regain sight" when they see what they look like.
Because eventually, that person with the clean sounding suburban name has to come in and interview. And what happens when the interviewer assumes how a person looks based on their name and gets a completely different visual?

The resume is supposed to do that anyway. That's the point...you get a pile of them, you compare skills like marleyisalegend said, and make a decision.

Again, a very simple premise that would ring true in this country if everyone actually adhered to it. But we know this doesn't always happen. Ideology is one thing... but reality is another.

 

[Rikter8]

...only for them to "regain sight" when they see what they look like.
Because eventually, that person with the clean sounding suburban name has to come in and interview. And what happens when the interviewer assumes how a person looks based on their name and gets a completely different visual?
Again, a very simple premise that would ring true in this country if everyone actually adhered to it. But we know this doesn't always happen. Ideology is one thing... but reality is another.

Honestly In today's market, if an applicant makes it to an interview, he/she's got a pretty good shot at the job. They're looking for the best of the best, and if the talent is there, they would be dumb not to hire it.
Be it whatever color/race/creed.

I'm not blind - I know racism/discrimination still occurs, but it's the game we must play. Those are the rules - fucked up as they may be.
So why not cheat where you can and get ahead in the game?

 

[marleyisalegend]

Quit being a bitch

might as well tell the sky to stop being blue :tongue:

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Honestly In today's market, if an applicant makes it to an interview, he/she's got a pretty good shot at the job. They're looking for the best of the best, and if the talent is there, they would be dumb not to hire it. Be it whatever color/race/creed.

I'm not blind - I know racism/discrimination still occurs, but it's the game we must play. Those are the rules - fucked up as they may be.
So why not cheat where you can and get ahead in the game?

Because changing your name or adopting a popular one is not an effective cheat. Somewhere down the line, someone who discriminates will find some minuscule thing to get rid of you, whether it be at the level of a weird sounding name or because they think you don't have the appropriate image.

I will say, however, that in the long run the degree is going to make a difference. Nothing these days guarantees you a job. However in this current market, there is an underlaying and somewhat unfair bias towards people with a degree. The perception is that since they spent the money to go to college, they were properly schooled and best qualified. And, of course, the more respected (or expensive) the college the better the reputation. However, most people coming out of college have no real job experience beyond an internship and yet they are still favored over people who may not have a degree but does has 10 or 20 years hands-on experience. I'm dealing with that right now with jobs in my industries. I remember designing websites long before colleges started offering degrees in them. In fact, the temp agency I worked for in the 90s didn't even have a testing program for web design work back when I started creating them for freelance clients on the side. But once it became a hot industry, structured curriculums were put in place and people like me were shunned off. Now, even I have to consider going back to college at 37 just to break through. It's not enough for me to tell employers where I've worked over the last 20 years in the computer and web fields. It's not enough to show them all of the publication houses, record labels, banks or major corporations I have done work for. Since I have no degree, they throw my resume away. And I'm sure if my name was "Toby" they would do the same thing. But I digress...

You should really consider the degree, marleyisalegend. Deep down, we all know a piece of paper doesn't determine the full worth of a person in the workplace. But until people can put a proper value on a person's abilities without it being about the money they spent to obtain the vacuous titles, the degree will definitely help. IMO, that's one "cheat" worth looking into. And keep your original name. :wink:

 

[marleyisalegend]

i don't not need no edumacation!

 

[B_VinylBoy]

i don't not need no edumacation!

Shhhhhhhh... you say that AFTER the employer gives you the benefits package! :biggrin1:

 

[breeze]

I live in the bay area which is flooded with college grads from around the world. I haven't run across one who went to cellege just to learn. Everyone has had an economic reason. I did run across a stripper at the gold club in sf who had earned a ba in english at a california state college and who absolutely loved it. She loved reading novels. I went to the same college for summer and i can why she enjoyed college so much. My guess is it probably costed her about 4000 for the 4 years she went there. It would have been a totally different ballgame if she went to the college down the road o/w known as stanford. If she went there the cost would have exceeded 200,000. I guess its not such a bad deal if you enjoy college and the cost is low. But if you have to pay a fortune for a liberal arts degree you're screwed.
I can also say the workload at a place like berkeley , harvard or cal tech is very different from a school in texas for example. You can study 12 hours a day at a place like stanford and still not finish your assignments. I knew people at berkeley who stayed up 72 straight hours during finals week. Try it that's torture and for what if there's no financial reward.
But there's no doubt if you want to be a teacher or engineer or whatever you need a degree. But if you're a liberal art major and don't teach there's not much out there unless you get lucky. The big mac might hire a college grad over a non college grad and something is better than nothing. But i wouldn't be surprised if a lot of blue collar jobs pay more than a lot of white collar jobs. And the path to wealth in this country isn't so much a college degree as owning a small business. 90% or more of millionaires own their own business.
I ran across a friend the other day who got a masters in stats from berkeley and was in the phd program i think. He worked for the lawrence lab above berkeley for awhile. The lawrence lav dsicovered a number of elements on the elements table. And W.A. still works there i believe. W.A. won a nobel prize but you know him as the guy who said a comet crashed into mexico wiping out all life in the past.
Anyway he said of his college experience its all bullshit. That's pretty harsh but i agree a lot of it is bullshit especially in the social sciences. You talk about the ivory tower. " Grey is all theory green is the tree of life " And as it was pointed out learning is great but eating and having a roof over your head are a bit more important. You don't need to pay 200,000 to learn.
Its not a game. Families go into deep debt to pay for college and risk their futures.

 

[Tee&A]

What I have thus learned from this thread:

-- Racism won't exist as long as blacks somehow "blend" their sweet chocolate flavor into the vanilla world as much as possible.
-- If your name is Quanisha and you get accepted to Harvard with a full scholarship, don't go. As soon as someone sees your name on a resume, you're fucked like Chuck. Chuck, on the other hand, will have no problem getting the job over you, well, because his name is Chuck.
-- There are still people who believe the POTUS is black.
-- There are still people who believe in the 1/16th rule from slavery days.

Well, I feel great now after reading all this. God bless America! Yeah!

 

[Rob_81]

High school diplomas basically says you're not a complete idiot. But come on, its 2010, people NEED a degree or some kind of education further. I took two years of schooling to become a certified master pet groomer. I still am in college for Chemistry, HS diplomas don't get you much these days, this isn't the 1940's. And yeah, I'm in debt, about $11,000. Being debt sucks but not as much as not having education to get a good job.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

High school diplomas basically says you're not a complete idiot. But come on, its 2010, people NEED a degree or some kind of education further. I took two years of schooling to become a certified master pet groomer. I still am in college for Chemistry, HS diplomas don't get you much these days, this isn't the 1940's. And yeah, I'm in debt, about $11,000. Being debt sucks but not as much as not having education to get a good job.

That is the biggest misconception out there. If we're going to be real about this, nobody has to incur a decade or lifetime amount of debt in order to obtain a proper education. The problem is that so many people place way too much intrinsic value on image and money when it comes to choosing someone to hire for a job. It looks and sounds much more prestigious to have a fresh, young college graduate from an Ivy League institution as a possible hire than a High School graduate from Schenectady. That's regardless if the college grad has an average GPA, while the high school graduate has perfect attendance & steady Honor Roll grades. I know enough people who either haven't went to college or couldn't afford it whose work ethic and abilities can run circles around most college grads. But even they have to scramble and hustle to get a piece of paper to prove they know what they're doing because many people are too scared to recognize real talent when their personal background doesn't look pretty.

This is not to say that getting a college education is a bad idea. If one has the access and the ability to get a degree then it can only help them in the long run. And I'm sure most college grads also have amazing abilities and work ethics to back it up. But our current system frequently tosses aside thoroughly qualified people based on many frivolous factors that always boil down to money and preconceived image. Because the fact that people with no degree and several years of hands-on experience are treated as second class people compared to the person who went to college and have none is absolutely illogical.