college. yay or nay? i say HELL to the NAY!

[lucky8]

Me, I quit college, landed a sweet job, have a 4 bedroom/3 bath/finished basement/3 car garrage/2.5 acres in the subs and a 2 bedroom/2 bath/w/terrace in the city all thanks to union.:smile:.

Get a nice solid & secure union job in a place where they aren't likely to lay people off and in 25 to 30 yrs. you retire with a nice fat pension or can keep at it and put an extra pad on the pension and leave with even bigger bucks, which is what I'm doing. At retirement (I plan to exit at 62) I'll get tax free, a bigger check than I get now!:smile:!


My son-in-law saw the smartness and landed himself a nice spot in a different city, same kind of work, my daughter has no need to work with hubby's pay.

Meantime my squeezable has a Masters in 2 different fields but has a gross pay that's just over 1/2 what I net! He has no built in pension either. Yeah that degree has helped him.

Get a union job it's the best thing for getting a good night of sleep.:smile:.

Fuck union freeloaders.

 

[lucky8]

That is the biggest misconception out there. If we're going to be real about this, nobody has to incur a decade or lifetime amount of debt in order to obtain a proper education. The problem is that so many people place way too much intrinsic value on image and money when it comes to choosing someone to hire for a job. It looks and sounds much more prestigious to have a fresh, young college graduate from an Ivy League institution as a possible hire than a High School graduate from Schenectady. That's regardless if the college grad has an average GPA, while the high school graduate has perfect attendance & steady Honor Roll grades. I know enough people who either haven't went to college or couldn't afford it whose work ethic and abilities can run circles around most college grads. But even they have to scramble and hustle to get a piece of paper to prove they know what they're doing because many people are too scared to recognize real talent when their personal background doesn't look pretty.

This is not to say that getting a college education is a bad idea. If one has the access and the ability to get a degree then it can only help them in the long run. And I'm sure most college grads also have amazing abilities and work ethics to back it up. But our current system frequently tosses aside thoroughly qualified people based on many frivolous factors that always boil down to money and preconceived image. Because the fact that people with no degree and several years of hands-on experience are treated as second class people compared to the person who went to college and have none is absolutely illogical.

I beg to differ with these statements. As a recent college graduate, I'm still yet to land that great job with great benefits. Almost had it, but then the union fucks at Hawker Beechcraft got too greedy so all operations are being moved out of state...but that's a whole other story. Around 85% of college grads are moving back in with their parents after graduating right now. What we're faced with is an extremely competitive job market that actually values experience over education...at least where I live. I can't tell you how many job postings I've seen that say "3-5 years of experience required." I'm talking $35,000-$50,000 positions, pretty livable salaries. I rarely come across ads that require a Bachelor's degree. It's either experience, or an MBA.

Yes, formal education is a bit outdated in my opinion. However, I can honestly say I am a better and more intelligent person after going through the process. It really does make you a better person, and for this reason alone I think it's worth it. There's no need to go to an Ivy league school...there really isn't. Hell the best way to do it is go to a community college for 2 years then transfer to a university for the last 2. If you graduate with a good GPA and have a specialized major, in the long-run you'll be fine. Getting a job in this market is all about building your brand, and a college degree is one of the best attributes a person can have. The hardest part after college is landing that first job because most people have little relevant work experience.

I don't think "image" is really the right word...although I will say most companies are looking for someone that just seems like a flat out "average" person...someone that fits in. It's more about weeding through hundreds of resumes. If you have 2 resumes, one has experience, the other has both experience and an education, you'll probably pick the one that has both. It's not just about education, it's also about getting a leg up on your competition. Things have changed and you have to either adapt, start your own business, or struggle to survive.

 

[D_Tilly_De_Toilet]

Fuck union freeloaders.

lol

 

[breeze]

The department of labor did a survey years ago. They asked 10 million people how they got their jobs. 7 million said they got their jobs through someone they knew. How common or important is this ? I don't know. I remember a temp job i had for an insurance company in sf. I noticed all the new underwriters were relatives of people who worked there. Some of them may have not even gone to college. The old saying its not what you know but who you know is somewhat true. To what extent who knows ?

 

[B_VinylBoy]

As a recent college graduate, I'm still yet to land that great job with great benefits. Almost had it, but then the union fucks at Hawker Beechcraft got too greedy so all operations are being moved out of state...but that's a whole other story. Around 85% of college grads are moving back in with their parents after graduating right now. What we're faced with is an extremely competitive job market that actually values experience over education...at least where I live. I can't tell you how many job postings I've seen that say "3-5 years of experience required." I'm talking $35,000-$50,000 positions, pretty livable salaries. I rarely come across ads that require a Bachelor's degree. It's either experience, or an MBA.

I think the high percentage of college grads going back to live with their parents isn't necessarily a reflection of the competitiveness of certain job markets, but more about the dwindling numbers in certain fields due to the way these job markets constantly change. Although I think many people entering college do choose majors based on their desired career goals, most of these choices are fueled more by what a person makes financially instead of the availability of actual jobs. Also, where one person decides to live also plays a major factor. Being that I'm in New York, I can tell you that a mass majority of jobs that pay within salary ranges you're suggesting are requesting some level of college degree in order to be considered. You'd think a certain amount of hands on experience would count for something even if the candidate didn't have the finances necessary to go through college and get a degree. But many times, that is discarded regardless of how much that experience is.

Yes, formal education is a bit outdated in my opinion. However, I can honestly say I am a better and more intelligent person after going through the process. It really does make you a better person, and for this reason alone I think it's worth it. There's no need to go to an Ivy league school...there really isn't. Hell the best way to do it is go to a community college for 2 years then transfer to a university for the last 2. If you graduate with a good GPA and have a specialized major, in the long-run you'll be fine. Getting a job in this market is all about building your brand, and a college degree is one of the best attributes a person can have. The hardest part after college is landing that first job because most people have little relevant work experience.

Well as I stated before, I would never tell someone who was in pursuit of a great career to not go to college. If they have the means and the ability to do it, it can only help them in the long run. What I was referring to is how people who have amazing work ethics, skills and long standing experience are tossed aside for college graduates. I find it strange how at the age of 37, I can approach certain colleges, pick a major that best fits me based on my 20 years of hands-on experience in music, computer & internet based technologies and obtain college credits towards an actual degree... but somehow that same experience doesn't translate into an actual job with most employers.

I don't think "image" is really the right word...although I will say most companies are looking for someone that just seems like a flat out "average" person...someone that fits in. It's more about weeding through hundreds of resumes. If you have 2 resumes, one has experience, the other has both experience and an education, you'll probably pick the one that has both. It's not just about education, it's also about getting a leg up on your competition. Things have changed and you have to either adapt, start your own business, or struggle to survive.

It really depends on the experience. Regardless of what school a person goes to, I just want to know that someone can do the tasks I want them to do properly and thoroughly. If I was looking to employ someone and was presented two candidates, one who had no college degree but had 10-20 years experience in their field and the other with 3-5 years experience and a degree I would choose the person with more experience. The longer and steadier work ethic, as well as the ability to learn on their own two feet and adapt to changing trends is what would attract me more in this hypothetical. Of course, if the person without the degree didn't have that much work experience, say 5-10 years, then the college graduate starts to look much more attractive. But that's just me. :wink:

 

[RalDudeHangin]

IMO a degree is needed not for the sake of being educated in a certain field, but to prevent recruiters and employers from automatically filtering a person out. I.E. Unless it's a highly technical field, it doesn't matter what the degree is.
A degree a least infers the person has some discipline, can play well with others and hopefully has some ability to communicate and follow instructions. It's a scenario I've seen all too often in the HR industry. People with HS diplomas only and/or no college degree often don't even make it to the first phone screen if there are other applicants that have a degree. It's an employer's market out there and the quicker they can sort thru the hundreds of applicants, the better off they are. No degree, on to the next person...

Not to say someone without a degree wouldn't be able to learn a job as well - it's just how many employers do things.

My single biggest mistake in life was my education. If I could do it again, I wouldn't go to the private university thinking the "better" school would increase my chances for a good job. I'd go to a community college, save the $50,000+ dollars, and I could still be where I am today.