Coming out.

[bigbull29]

Someone tells you they are gay and your response is that you don't care what they do in bed? I suppose you also are tired of seeing straight people with their children and hearing about their kids, because you don't want to know what they do in bed either.

The sooner you stop reducing sexual orientations to sex acts, the sooner you will understand the answer to your question.

Why do we come out? We have to, how do we not, when people make heterocentric assumptions about us? People see my wedding ring and ask me my wife's name, when I tell them his name is Joe, am I flaunting what I do in the bedroom or should the asker have asked for my spouse's name or not asked at all?

People think that homosexuality is all about sex; that gays can't love their partner like a heterosexual can is pervasive. That is very, very sad. Love is love -- end of story.

I hope you have a happy marriage with your man. All the best!

 

[Chase1600]

“I contemplated suicide” … “After being sick and tired of being sick and tired, I made a decision- to prey on my predators. Someone could make a joke about homosexuality, and I'd go for the throat. I learned that I was worth fighting for, and like anyone else, I deserve happiness.”

That’s it, the whole thing. IF only one of us could have grabbed Tyler the college student who jumped from the George Washington Bridge, and make him see what you see. If you try to submit, you will never submit low enough. Not ever. You must be willing to fight for your worth – not to say someone has to be thin skinned.

We may not have chosen to be gay, but we do have to accept responsibility for being who we are, and that includes gay if we are gay. Rather than think of it as a “guilt” thing that we have to accept blame for being who we are, look at it differently. Being who we are is our gift. It has been entrusted to us. You are lucky that you got to be DrDante, but it is a responsibility; you have a responsibility to make something of this amazingly unique thing; being DrDante.

We can’t let others treat it as waste. People who attempt such things are not saying anything about you, or me, they are revealing their own flaws.

But they do exist and we must accept our responsibility to confront them.

 

[SouthernSpunk]

So why not start a separate thread and let’s read what people have to say.

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm going to decline. I would not normally post something like this, but I hoped there was something in it that might help BigBull29 with his problems.

I'd prefer to post this and watch it recede in the distance. Given its own thread, it would be analyzed and critiqued out of proportion to its importance. A careful reading reveals a good deal of criticism of people who don't take criticism well, and trust me, I was being very diplomatic in what was said.

I don't want to have to explain my life, justify my opinions, and debate why I think I have greater insights into the life I have lived, while arguing against people who don't even know my name.

 

[HungThickProf]

Honestly, the worst of all worlds is being bi.

I grew up "straight" but in my 30's had a very good friend that showed me what it was like to be physically and emotionally close to a man. Both of us were/are blue collar, so there was no "tea and roses" moments, it just boiled down to two solid buddies that went camping, bowling, and frequently sucked each other off.

I was living in a Blue state at the time, surrounded by lots of liberals. I thought, "Ok, let me be out about this, silence = death ... la la la." Things went profoundly wrong. I discovered that all these Blue People were not too fussy about the difference between bi and gay... and I got publicly labeled "gay". Women now ran from me. Literally, relationships that had been warm (and non-sexual) turned funny and cold. Women I was having sex with stopped for fear I would give them "something".

Worst was the wives. I lost all of my married buddies cause the wife didn't want me around them. The wives also got paranoid about all of my friends' other buddies... I'm about as un-gay as you could want, and if I could be gay... That witch hunt didn't help things.

There were also big problems at work, I was a shop supervisor and my authority had collapsed under me. I had a lesbian working on the floor: she was the worst of them all.

So I went back home to my Redneck Red State and keep my personal life personal. Good friends know the score with me, cause I won't lie about stuff. I've never lost a friend who knew that I dig the Puss and the Cock. The difference is of course they were all "pre screened" as friends, the situation was not broadcast to passing acquaintances and co-workers.

Very rarely, somebody is watching my eyes and notices that my glance followed the little Japanese secretary going down the street and Kenny the Plumber coming back... and put two and two together. The brave ones will ask if I'm gay or something.

I just say "Try to suck my dick and find out. If I'm gay you get a mouth full of sperm. If I'm straight, you get a mouth full of fist." The subject always drops dead.

I have to say that I'm sorry that you went through all of this. People can really be stupid. I think it's great that you're honest about who you are. It's weird what you went through though. I remember people having a better reaction to the thought of me being bi compared to me being gay. I swear to God- being bi, I literally heard "Oh, well at least he still likes chicks" and in my head I'm thinking "Well, fuck- I still suck dick!" I never understood it. I'm sure things will get better, at least I have hope that they do. Red or Blue, idiots come from all walks of life. I will tell you- I'm from VA, and being a gay, black male I always felt a little odd living here. Strangely enough, some of the nicest and most welcoming people I've ever met are "the red" country-folks, or as some would call them, rednecks.

I was told a story about a man who hated gays, and protested against gay marriage and he was a bit racist. A friend of mine invited me to a birthday party for her mom (they know how to fucking party, let me tell you!) Well, this guy was coming with his girlfriend. They had just gotten back from Mexico and they brought back like 8 different tequilas. I feared that I'd want to knock this man in the face. The moment this man and his girlfriend met me, I was like his new best friend- every bottle of tequila he opened, he would yell my name and demand and I came to take a shot with him. Knowing about me being gay, they asked me questions (about my life- day to day and sexual). When they left the party, he gave me the biggest hug and told me it was great meeting him. That's not the only experience I've had like that. However, some of the most judgmental people I've met in regards to the subject have been liberal. So it's funny you mention that.

Again, I'm sorry.

 

[deleted3782]

By no means am I saying that you should hide your orientation but why do you feel the need to tell the world about what sex you prefer. If I'm interest in your sexual orientation I will ask you about it.

I don't think your orientation is anyone's business but your own. I agree with you...don't tell anyone anything that you aren't comfortable in sharing.

However, don't ever let your life get to the point where you feel like you are not able to express yourself freely about who you love, who you enjoy spending time with, or who you have a crush on. That can lead to shame...and shame leads to lots of crazy things. It doesn't sound like that describes you, but others might fall into that category.

 

[bigbull29]

Thanks for the suggestion, but I'm going to decline. I would not normally post something like this, but I hoped there was something in it that might help BigBull29 with his problems.

Thank you, SouthernSpunk, I really appreciate the post.:smile: It brought a little clarity to my situation.

I'm just at a point in my life that I just crave male affection (not just sex). I don't understand it, or where it's all coming from. I so want a man to hold me.

 

[NCbear]

Easy answer for me. When I'm around friends and family I really do not want to have to be guarded about what I say and how I phrase what I do say. Coming out removes that necessity. I don't care at all about what they think of my sexuality just as I don't give a damn about their's.

What he said, including that crucial last sentence.

NCbear (who says it took a long time for me to get to this level of "fuck it!" )

 

[runningwoof]

I once told someone I had just met that I was gay...later, after we became really really close friends, she asked me why I told her when we first met. I told her that, some of my other friends, when they found out, started to treat me different, and I wanted people to know upfront, so they wouldn't change their opinions of me, and that I wouldn't get hurt. I was in the Navy at the time that I finally admitted to myself that I was gay, and it probably wasn't the best place for that to happen. I hid it for the remainder of my time in, and when I got out, I promised myself, that I would never lie about who I was again. I am, never in your face with it...unless I am drunk and then I hit on all the straight guys...one reason I don't get drunk very often...but I also do not hide the fact that I have a husband and that I like men...It is who I am...

I think that the straight community sometimes takes for granted what it is like to be able to have pictures of their loved ones on their desk at work, or to mention to someone that "we" went somewhere, without the inevitable questions of who "we" is...or when someone else talks about a date they had, how hard it is not to talk about the date you had.

People "come out" because they need to. It is not about telling you about sex, it is about freeing oneself from what we feel were lies that we might of been telling others and ourselves.

 

[Hockeytiger]

Coming out is not about telling others. That is usually just a means to another end. The point of coming out is coming out to yourself. Imagine yourself hating yourself because of your sexual desires and/or being terrified of others finding out. Coming out is a way of expressing (mostly to one's self) that you have accepted who you are. It is proof (again, mostly to one's self) that you are okay with it. The burden for many people is back breaking, and by telling their friends, it is a huge relief. Granted, it really isn't any of their business.

Also, you need to understand that sexuality isn't about who you share your bed with, it is about who you are internally (in your head). Granted, it shouldn't matter. But whether we like it or not it does matter. A lot of people feel the need to hide it. As a result coming out is theraputic to many people and an important step towards self-acceptance.

 

[erratic]

By no means am I saying that you should hide your orientation but why do you feel the need to tell the world about what sex you prefer.
If I'm interest in your sexual orientation I will ask you about it.

Because you said you don't want to step on any toes, I'm going to help you out.
"why do you feel the need to tell the world about what sex you prefer" sounds like the kind of bullshit that homophobic politicians say, and it puts a lot of queer people on guard.

For example I had a friend of mine who told me and all her friends to come to her house because she had something very important to tell.
She told us she was gay which didn't really come as a surprise but I was like "this is why you called all of us to come here?"

In the previous quote you used "you" to speak to, I'm assuming, "gay people" around the world. Then you reduce your support to one person. One person being overdramatic makes you wonder why gay people have to tell the whole world about their orientation?

To me it feels like those people on the corner of the street preaching to you about god, and I'm like why would you force your shit uppon me in my daily life if I have any interest in religion I will come find you.

Bringing religious crazies in to a conversation about coming out will, of course, endear you to almost no one who's had to come out of the closet. Further, street corner preachers are not analogous to people coming out of the closet. Queer people do not, as a rule, stand on street corners telling the world about their sex lives. Queer people are, in fact, more likely to be beaten on the street than they are likely to come out on it.

Anyway, this is not to nit pick - you have a legitimate question at the bottom of this and you've received some very good answers. But if you don't want to step on toes do try to think of the people you're querying.

 

[8060]

Coming out is not about telling others. That is usually just a means to another end. The point of coming out is coming out to yourself. Imagine yourself hating yourself because of your sexual desires and/or being terrified of others finding out. Coming out is a way of expressing (mostly to one's self) that you have accepted who you are. It is proof (again, mostly to one's self) that you are okay with it. The burden for many people is back breaking, and by telling their friends, it is a huge relief. Granted, it really isn't any of their business.

Also, you need to understand that sexuality isn't about who you share your bed with, it is about who you are internally (in your head). Granted, it shouldn't matter. But whether we like it or not it does matter. A lot of people feel the need to hide it. As a result coming out is theraputic to many people and an important step towards self-acceptance.

I agree with all that you said. I wonder how old 'coming out' even is. I don't think that I've run across anyone over 40 concerned with coming out. It's a new thing. I think coming out involves a lot of things. I think coming out can be hard for some people to accept because it's based in sexuality and that's such a deep thing to try to understand. It's a wide spectrum. Coming out can be a way to free yourself and know yourself more even. For some, it's a choice. Others it can be a means of survival depending on their surroundings. It could be a lot of things. What I believe that coming out is not is a way to draw outside people into your world. It was never about them. One's coming out may be because of others, but it's never for others. So, I like what you said, hockeytiger. It's for you, self-acceptance and self-love is a hard road that we all walk from time to time.

 

[ericbythebay]

Here in the Castro, straight people are very quick to tell others their sexual orientation.

 

[bigbull29]

There have been some really good posts on this thread (very impressed). This could be a big help to someone is contemplating "coming out".

For me, I'm still very sexually confused, and don't know if it's really a proper time to "come out" as bi or gay.

To tell people something so private about oneself just seems so ridiculous, but at the same time, it seems so necessary in the road to self-acceptance. I understand that heterosexuality is just assumed in everyone, and that is really not a "private" matter at all, but one that all heterosexuals announce loudly and clearly to the world.

 

[8060]

I feel you on the confused tip, bigbull. If I understood more of what I do I wouldn't be single right now. The voice of coming out isn't something that you should have to tell people to get the release or the quicken from coming out. Try telling a person, just a person, and then do you. That's what I did and am doing. I'm not telling anybody else. I have not the breath for it. It's just an ism. Yes, that's hard to accomplish at times but it's far easier doing it when you don't have to say it over and over again.

"Hey, I was just calling to let you know that I'm bisexual."
"Be careful, you all, going upstairs. My bisexual steps are tricky."
"Have you seen my new dog? He's bi."

It can be like that if you don't choose to let coming out to be a big deal. I wanted my ordeal to be as minimal and forgettable as possible when I told my one person. After that was off my chest, I just chose not to let my sexuality be a big deal with the rest of the world. It's a big deal to me on the inside of me and that's cool because no one else except me. In that place, every thing I say goes and things are peachy. I live in the world though and that place is different, so I adjust, do me and wade through.

It is a process that does not have to last forever and that's what's up.

 

[HungThickProf]

There have been some really good posts on this thread (very impressed). This could be a big help to someone is contemplating "coming out".

For me, I'm still very sexually confused, and don't know if it's really a proper time to "come out" as bi or gay.

To tell people something so private about oneself just seems so ridiculous, but at the same time, it seems so necessary in the road to self-acceptance. I understand that heterosexuality is just assumed in everyone, and that is really not a "private" matter at all, but one that all heterosexuals announce loudly and clearly to the world.

I don't know if it helps anything, but you are who you are and you like what you like. You can either come out, or just don't be so private about what you do. And I don't mean you have to just speak to your friends about your sex life. But if you were to start dating someone of the same sex and there was a group-outing, bring him along and introduce him as your partner/boyfriend like anyone else would. And if you were to pursue a relationship with someone of the same sex, would they always be your "friend" or "roommate"?

As much as people claim that they don't care about what others think of them, the majority of people do. Stop caring. You get one life to live, and you might as well be happy and comfortable in it. Do what you like, and people love you like they claim they do, they'll still be there. How and who you fuck, we can agree you could private. Who you love, different story.

If you believe that you don't want to pursue a relationship with a man, then fine, you can stay in that mystical closet. But any woman you decide to date and get serious with, I believe you owe it to her to be honest about what you sexually enjoy. If she doesn't like you for you, then she's just not for you.

Sorry to ramble.

 

[8060]

As much as people claim that they don't care about what others think of them, the majority of people do. Stop caring. You get one life to live, and you might as well be happy and comfortable in it. Do what you like, and people love you like they claim they do, they'll still be there. How and who you fuck, we can agree you could private. Who you love, different story.

Well said. That's it in a nutshell. Just stop caring. It is not difficult to do.

If you believe that you don't want to pursue a relationship with a man, then fine, you can stay in that mystical closet. But any woman you decide to date and get serious with, I believe you owe it to her to be honest about what you sexually enjoy. If she doesn't like you for you, then she's just not for you.

Sorry to ramble.

This is one of my current battles. Ongoing and I'm winning. Strategic measures. No foul play. My point.

 

[bigbull29]

I feel you on the confused tip, bigbull. If I understood more of what I do I wouldn't be single right now. The voice of coming out isn't something that you should have to tell people to get the release or the quicken from coming out. Try telling a person, just a person, and then do you. That's what I did and am doing. I'm not telling anybody else. I have not the breath for it. It's just an ism. Yes, that's hard to accomplish at times but it's far easier doing it when you don't have to say it over and over again.

"Hey, I was just calling to let you know that I'm bisexual."
"Be careful, you all, going upstairs. My bisexual steps are tricky."
"Have you seen my new dog? He's bi."

It can be like that if you don't choose to let coming out to be a big deal. I wanted my ordeal to be as minimal and forgettable as possible when I told my one person. After that was off my chest, I just chose not to let my sexuality be a big deal with the rest of the world. It's a big deal to me on the inside of me and that's cool because no one else except me. In that place, every thing I say goes and things are peachy. I live in the world though and that place is different, so I adjust, do me and wade through.

It is a process that does not have to last forever and that's what's up.

Great post!

I know in my heart that I would not be single right now if my sexuality was sorted out.

I have a right to love and be loved just like everyone else.

If it's a dude, it's a dude. Sometimes I just don't care. Why should I a basic human right taken from me just to make other people happy?

 

[haulthat]

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No matter how you identify your sexuality, that has nothing to do with being able to understand someones decision to come out. It's ignorant to say "why do you feel the need to tell the world about what sex you prefer" because the vast majority of the world is Straight. Me walking up to you and saying, hey I have a penis would be pointless and retarded because that pretty much is the case if you happen to be a man. If a man does not have a penis, he might want to let someone who is close to him know. Why? Because knowing you are not like most people, that if someone happened to find out on their own they would freak (and probably would either way), and knowing that there are a shitload of people out there who are up in arms against people like you (gay or in the hypothetical scenario a man with no penis) is an uncomfortable place to stay in to say the least.
Coming out 99.73647219% (with a 0.000003 margin of error) is not done for attention, or necessarily a good experience for that person at the time. In the long run it allows them to, as you claim you are in support of, not have to hide their orientation. I can't speak for everyone so let me fill you in on my situation. Most people tell me I'm masculine ("straight acting" isn't a topic I wont go into and from a technical standpoint is hard to make sense of as a term), most people still don't know that I'm gay, and I didn't make the arrangement to come out. My sister decided to suggest to my dad non stop that I was, when I hadn't even told her, he called me up to ask me... said he thinks its bullshit, doesn't believe her, its fine if I am, but he just wants to know, are you? For like 7-15 seconds I paused extremely uncomfortable, and then I said yes. "WHY!?" He basically explained he never figured he has to worry about it, since I don't fit stereotype, and wtf would you choose to live like that for!? I will stop as far as that conversation went and just explain why I answered yes. I was a loner most of the time growing up, I dealt with a lot of shit, and somewhere along the line I decided that I will not stress out and tip toe around what other people expect from me. In one way, I was lucky because the subject usually doesn't come up so I don't have to do that because I don't seem it. In another, its rough because a lot of people assume that I'm going against nature more than the guys who seem feminine, and maybe cant help but be gay. Either way, coming out and/or just honestly telling someone you are gay lets you know up front without having to worry or wonder how that person is going to react. Until they know you are gay, you will think in the back of your mind what if they cant deal with it... their my best friend!? I don't want to loose them, but they will be cool with it right? or... no... they will freak and not want to have shit to do with me!
Comparing it to "the corner of the street preaching to you about god, and I'm like why would you force your shit uppon me in my daily life" is crap because those people on the corner don't know you, have any sort of relationship with you, or have any reason to share their business with you. What you could compare to that is gay/straight/or bi people who publicly display affection in obviously inappropriate manners, talk about the details of their sex life out of no where or loud enough for other people to hear, or are in your face about anything sexual period. Letting you know, "hey I'm gay" is a world apart from saying "I wanted you to know I like to suck dick, take it up the ass, have two guys in me at the same time, sniff palls, eat cum... and so much more!"
Finally, "I'm just curious why someones sexual orientation has to be known to the world." Really? I know you are using the term figuratively, but coming out, in the example you stated as well, is usually done among 1 or more people who the gay in question is close to. People who have officially come out, aren't always comfortable with letting people they don't know about it. The one example you could compare that to, is a Pride Parade. Yes, that is an extreme, I will give you that. Why do all those people dress up in leather, rainbows, and costumes? For the same reason that starvation diets almost NEVER keep the weight off. An unnatural resistance to a natural urge will cause that urge to grow repressed, grow into something just as unnaturally huge as the amount of resistance that is being placed on it.
Also, on the other side of the field, like in my case, to clear up misunderstandings. Some friends of mine who were openly gay, got the impression from me sometimes that I gay bash, or had something against gays. It pissed me the fuck off, and what made it worse is when they treated me like that I would bite my tongue because what could I say? Hey I fuck guys!? Whats your deal? I'm not huge on trusting people to keep a secret, so until I was open about it with people close to me I didn't wanna go there. After I was open about it with people I was close to, I slammed it in their faces... hey remember all the shit you gave me about being "insensitive" to gays and shit!? BAM, blew their damn minds. They didn't apologize either, they were more tongue in cheek about it.
I'm sure you stepped on toes, but I'm sure it was done like the meatheaded, awkward, cant dance worth a shit kinda guy at the club who probably didn't mean to, but at the same time wasn't really trying not to. Except in this case, he stepped on toes so he could try to enjoy himself, and I'm not sure how you could enjoy yourself in a way that justified the toe stepping. Fuck I wrote a lot, but... this kinda hit my funny bone... it was a knee jerk reaction I couldn't avoid. To be honest, I wouldn't want to either way.
You claim you don't expect people to hide their sexuality, don't really care what they do behind closed doors, and basically just don't want their business in your face right? So as a concerned citizen, obviously it doesn't make sense to say "as a friend", my advice is to bluntly say. LOOK.. I don't care if your gay, I'm still your friend, just don't bring up shit that ain't really my business ok?" A lot of the time that's all their really looking for. If they expect you to actually be in the loop on as far as that business goes, you would need to decide if you care about them as a friend to step out of your comfort zone when they want you to. Doesn't always happen, but that's life. If you need any further explanation of any kind on this subject, either go directly to the person who you have this issue with, or smoke a blunt before asking your questions... and dear god I hope that doesn't make them even worse... well...THATS ALL FOLKS!

I heard and read several stories about people (including friends) coming out of the closet.

Usually they have been walking around with the tought that they are gay for a long period of time and then they want to tell the world about it.

Maybe I'm just indifferent or have no ability to relate to gay/bisexual people but the idea of coming out to the world is just ridiculous to me.

By no means am I saying that you should hide your orientation but why do you feel the need to tell the world about what sex you prefer.
If I'm interest in your sexual orientation I will ask you about it.

For example I had a friend of mine who told me and all her friends to come to her house because she had something very important to tell.
She told us she was gay which didn't really come as a surprise but I was like "this is why you called all of us to come here?"

It's not any of my business who you share your bed with, you could fuck a horse or have massive orgies for all I care what you do in your bedroom and who you do it with is alllll your business.


To me it feels like those people on the corner of the street preaching to you about god, and I'm like why would you force your shit uppon me in my daily life if I have any interest in religion I will come find you.

So I might have stepped on a few toes here but I have no intention of insulting anyone I'm just curious why someones sexual orientation has to be known to the world.

 

[601900]

I don't know if it helps anything, but you are who you are and you like what you like. You can either come out, or just don't be so private about what you do. And I don't mean you have to just speak to your friends about your sex life. But if you were to start dating someone of the same sex and there was a group-outing, bring him along and introduce him as your partner/boyfriend like anyone else would. And if you were to pursue a relationship with someone of the same sex, would they always be your "friend" or "roommate"?

As much as people claim that they don't care about what others think of them, the majority of people do. Stop caring. You get one life to live, and you might as well be happy and comfortable in it. Do what you like, and people love you like they claim they do, they'll still be there. How and who you fuck, we can agree you could private. Who you love, different story.

If you believe that you don't want to pursue a relationship with a man, then fine, you can stay in that mystical closet. But any woman you decide to date and get serious with, I believe you owe it to her to be honest about what you sexually enjoy. If she doesn't like you for you, then she's just not for you.

Sorry to ramble.

Well put.

 

[Cosota]

It's an important step for many people, I would try to explain why but I got the impression you don't really care.
I hope the girl who invited you to her house has some better, more sympathetic friends than you.