Coming to terms with my sexuality...

[13788]

bbobb21: You have received some very good advice.

Perhaps I might help by sharing some of my experience.

At your age I was in the same situation. I fantasized about men when masterbated but saw myself in relationships with women. What is different is that back in 1959, we did not have aclue what homosexuality let alone bisexuality was. Of course we used words like faggot and queer but homosexual- no.

Oddly, I entered to seminary to study to be a priest but left to become a psychologist. My best friend in the seminary turned out to be gay- I am sure neither of us knew or suspected during much of our relationship. In our last years he became involved with another student sexually but I knew nothing of it until later.

After leaving the clergy, I dated women and continue to fantasize about men but never thought of myself as sharing a life with another man or seriously being actually involved with another man. I married within a year and went back to grad school for psychology. The things that they taught about inversion back then had to do with all that Freud stuff and my school was non-Freudian so we never talked about. When I geaduated it was 1970 when all the sexual acceptance and new understandings were at their height. Most of my couples work was helping married men and women understand about sex. _Doctor, you wouldn't believe what he tried to do to me.........was the cry of the unknowing married women who came into our offices.....The other thing was the young men who came in 'fearful' that they might be gay......We had an excellent book called the Sex Book that we used with client. It included very graphic photographs- very beautiful- and slowly I began to realize that my fanasies and that I found looking at men a turn on was called homosexuality. Yet I fucked my wife every night and enjoyed it and I truly was turned on by her. Bisexual, yes. But what I got from men who were gay including a very good psychiatrist friend was that I was gay and I just wanted to make babies.

Well, more than 30 years, I quite honestly know that I am bisexual. I have been comfortable with it for almost 30 years now. During that time much has been made of men who married and then found out that they were gay etc. but I have seen men both socially and in my practice who have made the opposite mistake and that is that if we have homosexual tendencies that we are 'gay' and not 'straight' and should come out and live the gay lifestyle. i have even heard this at the university where i teach, mostly from hetero women. First of all there is no such thing as a gay lifestyle as supported in the largest study on homosexuality, the socalled visible homosexual community represents a minority of gay men. Secondly, there are bisexual men.

My choice has been to remain married. When I realized that it was true, I told my wife, and what I said then, that I wouldn't today, was that I a homosexual. I should have said bi but what did I know in 1972. There has been some very intelligent discussion about the topic of sharing with wives in the forum also. I think there are choices and given circumstances one or other choice might be best. I am happy that I did not do what was suggested by my gay friends 30 years ago. You live in a more open world but the choices still remain difficult.
Finally, I would note as women get older they become less and less interested in sex.......I live this and see it all the time in my practice..........and I for one have not.....happily I don'y feel my day is complete unless I've had sex. (Usually masterbation.)

You have recieved some very good advice. You are young and you will have to grow through this. As you discover through self understanding what your true sexual nature is (and this is the given), you then will have to make some choices within the limits of that reality. Give it time and experiment. You are young and there is still so much that you will have to discover before you jump into a decision.

Last of all: given the possibilities, I would never choose, if given the choice, to anything but bisexual. I won't be graphic but think of the possibilities. bob

 

[13788]

headbang8: Cale,

You've received loads of good advice. Let me add mine, for what it's worth.  

Like Bob and Uncut10, I stood very much in your shoes at the age of 18.  

I could find women attractive enough to do the deed with; in fact, like you, I'm a tit man.

Through necessity, gay sex improvises with the available equipment.  (Listen to some of the tales around here, though, and you'll find that straight sex sometimes requires improvisation, too.)   By contrast, it's pleasant to let your body do what it was designed to do.  Occasionally.

But that don't cut it. Somehow, between the architect of my body and the builder of my brain, the blueprints went astray.  Men...well, they really get my dick hard.  The difference is like night and day—so great, that it ceases to be a simple difference in degree, and becomes a difference in kind.

Even though I've had relationships with women—and could still deliver a Headbang Special to any who asked nicely enough—I’m not bisexual.  For practical purposes, I'm gay.

I resisted that label for a long time.  For a number of reasons.  

First, like you, I didn’t see myself as the archetypal lisping hairdresser.  And looked down on the seeming helplessness, brainlessness, and silliness of effeminate gay men.  I had no idea what a small fraction of gay men behave that way.

So, after deciding that I should damn well get on with it, I lost my virginity at 22, with a woman.   It hardly fanned the flames of passion, but at least I had a sex life like a normal human being and considered the issue dealt with.

You know what?  I discovered that not only do I have no taste for effeminate men; I also have no taste for effeminate women.

You refer, twice, to “intelligent” women.  Do I detect a little bit of code, here?  For “intelligent”, read: women who don’t show the weakness, dependence or fickleness of a typical trophy wife…or toy boy?  

Before you leap to the conclusion that you prefer women “emotionally”, try maintaining a committed emotional relationship with one.  It ain’t always a bed of roses.  

(Sorry if I keep sounding like a misogynist, everyone.  I have nothing against women, honest!  Let me trot out that well-worn cliche: some of my best friends are women!)

In my mid-30’s, I cut to the chase.  Rather than searching for independent, competent, intelligent women—i.e. those with classic “male” virtues—I began to pursue males.  And found they provide great emotional rewards, as well as sexual fulfillment.

Further, as I became more comfortable getting to know gay men, it became obvious that mincing queens often show the most courage in life—it takes guts to live as you truly want when the world heaps scorn on you.   They learned bravery because they had no choice.  Those of us who can “pass” as straight have it relatively easy.  We can choose to come out, or not.  

(By the way, “passing” is in the eye of the beholder.   Absolutely nobody suspects I’m gay when they meet me.   I’m not thin.  I’m not neat.  I swear like a longshoreman once you get me going.  Yet when they are told, many say…”aaah! NowI can tell.”   I went through a phase where every time I talked with a straight male friend, as an exercise, I would watch for tell-tale signs.  Sure enough, each one lisped occasionally, gossiped, bitched, put his hands on his hips, held his cigarette in the “V” between middle and index finger instead of pinching it manfully between finger and thumb, or any one of a thousand little hints.  When all five of my uncles started to look gay, I decided that nobody can tell a damn thing about anyone.)

I came to view the whole flamer/drag queen scene as a source of amusement—the light in which it’s meant to be viewed.   Drag queens are not a poor imitation of women so much as a parody of them.   Enjoy the joke—the rest of the world does.  

I remember attending my first Sydney Gay Mardi Gras parade as an out, gay man.  I finally felt free to laugh at the ironies, rather than to cringe with shame.  And can’t recall ever having laughed so much.
 
Now, let’s quibble with your definition of “passion”.  Can you really separate “romantic” passion and “sexual” passion?   Deep, compelling affection plus irresistible lust equals romantic passion, in my book.   It’s not passion if you don’t get them both in one hit.  And you deserve them both, Cale.

This false dichotomy afflicts straight men, too.   Many feel forced to choose between the beautiful, intelligent and socially-acceptable woman they want for a wife, or the beautiful and sexy (but maybe a little bit outré) woman they want in bed.
 
My observation is that the happier men are the ones who followed their hearts, rather than their heads.  Why shouldn’t you?

I did.   My partner and I don't live the "stereotypical" straight lifestyle with kids and a house in the suburbs, but he and I share the passionate commitment of any healthy husband and wife; a synthesis of day-to-day emotional support and every-other-day rampant bonking.  A life of quiet, masculine dignity, all told.  

Anyway, that's just one man's opinion.  It's great that you've heard so many diverse points of view.  None of us hold the definitive answer, Cale.  But hearing the vast array of other men's stories might help you sort out your own.  

Useful as these stories may be, they prove no substitute for your own experience.  Go out there, and open your heart to all kinds of love.  Be ready for it to get broken, or at least a little bit lived-in.  Be prepared to support yourself financially if your parents reject you.  Move cities if you must for your own safety or anonymity.   Get confident and relaxed with condoms, because safe sex really works.   Know that the right road for you may not be easy.  But don’t hesitate to take the first step.  

 

[B_RoysToy]

Cale:

If, by telling you the tribulations of my sexual history possibly can help you in any way, I'm more than happy to commit. Several points you have made in your postings have reminded me of similar ones (been there, done that).

After puberty, I was attracted to a couple of females, one a little tomboyish and the other a beautiful, intelligent, 100% effiminate classmate. I was too shy to ask her for a date (knowing she had 7 steady b/fs at the time). The tomboyish one did stroke my penis one night on the school bus, but that's my only sexual act with a female during my teen years. During my college freshman year, I went with a female, even so far as meeting her parents, but never had any serious sexual attraction for her.

It was a different picture with males. During these years, I was attracted to several guys (at different times) and knew my feelings were those of love, but never spoke this to anyone. My male friends were 'close', b/c we all like to be lilked and my buddies enjoyed my company, even during two years in the army.

I was raised to 'do what's expected of you'. Being the only son in the family, I knew what my parents and our small town society expected of me. After seeing the newspaper picture of the local queen, I made a date with her and immediately told my parents we would marry. The year after getting out of service we tied the knot and finished college together.

Before we married, of course, I had misgivings about my sexual orientation and saught the services of a psychiatrist, who told me I had nothing to 'worry' about and continue with my plans to marry. I think he based this answer on the answer I gave when he asked me if I wanted to kiss males. At the time, I had never done this and hadn't thought that, yeah, there were those I found attractive enough to respond to, had they wanted to suck face with me. I was trying to be in denial.

After a few years of marriage, when I told my wife I had these feelings for men, her response was 'that's all in your mind, nobody as good in bed as you can be gay'. After three wonderful children and 29 years of marriage, she sued me for divorce after having me followed for 6 months and getting pictures of me having sex with a male.

My advice, Cale, I cannot give, because we are all different and although the situations are seemingly alike, individuals involved are different. As with so many of my life's episodes, my marriage was a conflict between greatness in that it produced our children (and now our grandchildren), and sadness in its being unfair to my ex because of my inability to love her as she deserved.

Who knows, had I had the advice of others as you have gotten from LPSG, instead of the psychiatrist, I might have lead a different life. But I would do it all again for any one of our children. My wish is for you to make the decision that will not only make you happy for years to come, but also the one that will permit you to look back on when you reach my age (75) and know you did the right thing.

Peace, Cale,

Luke

 

[Ecchi]

Very interesting thread here, very good points from everyone.

I'm kinda in the same boat as the original poster, although its not that I don't want to be bi or that I don't think I am (and that made no fucking sense .... ) i dunno that I could ever love a guy that way. I may have an attraction to cocks and a curiousity to give blowjobs, but weirdly thats as far as it goes. Its not that I'm uncomfortable with it, its more to the point of trying to understand what my hormones and whatnot are telling me.

 

[headbang8]

It's been a while since we last heard from you, Cale. How are things going?

 

[hung]

Cale, I, also am concerned about you. How are things going? Let us know what is happening in your life. I know that I and most likely many other sent you private messages. You have received a lot of support and I urge you to use what fits you and discard the rest. That is the concept behind all support groups.

You are, as many others have stated, at a very difficult age. You will have a much different focus on life and sexuality at the age of 22 or 23. I like you struggled with these same concerns. I married at age 25. I wanted the best and I waited. I never lusted to the point of engaging in pre-marital sex. I am glad I did wait.

Do not rush yourself and consider that you have a whole life to life. Take the time to enjoy it.

 

[13788]

Javierdude22: I hadn't seen this thread as I was on holiday at that particular time.

All I can say is that it was like hearing myself talk about my own teen years. I am 24 years now, but in the same process as you are. For your age you have come to terms more than I had at that time.

I'm at a place right now where I don't want to talk about it right now. Mostly because the struggle is there again, with a vengeance.

DMW, no problem about speaking up, you worded it perfectly.

Let us know how your doing Cale, laterz.

 

[deleted111]

Cale, I do not know if it will help but if you would like to chat directly my AIM is Cardyboy799 Yahoo is Cardyboy_799 and MSN is nacard01@hotmail.com

I have been openly gay for 7 years. I have been with girls before. I am not promising I can help but I will certainly talk to you about your situation in the attempt to clarify or help you understand what you might be going through.

Nate
I'm 25

 

[13788]

GABoi18: Cale,

I'm 18 myself, and very much in just about the same position as you. I totally agree that there is some great advice put together in this thread, and the issue of your sexuality certainly isn't one your just going to wake up knowing one way or the other. Sexuality is like an ionic bond, your a certain percentage on one side and a certain part the other. I feel you on alot of things you've said. I'm very much a T&A guy myself, but I masturbate to men. I still sometimes feel the need to marry and lead that "normal straight life" you spoke of. However, rexamine everything and sort out what your feelings are, and what might just be fears put on you by social anxiety. Maybe we just want to make babies, eh? But seriously, if for any reason you would like someone to talk to (like everyone else on this board) plz get in touch with me. My AIM is HeavensBlade555 and my email is HeavensBlades555@aol.com . Drop me a line bro.

Peace and love,
~Cal

 

[D_Martin van Burden]

Don't confuse a life that's easier to live according to society's standards rather than making one of your own choosing.

I did that -- made my own life -- and I'm much happier for it. Unlike most of the board who have hit some sort of "conclusion" stage for who they like and what they want, I would willingly bet that I'm still waffling around. It's so much easier to say I'm straight and leave it at that. Lately -- and I think alcohol's to blame -- I've had buddies who were pretty comfortable with me ask some pretty bold questions (Are you bi? What's that all about? Can you explain it to me?).

I usually say, "I played in the minors, but I never went pro." (Thanks, Coyote Ugly.) But it's not really that simple.

One user said that he could see himself physically with men but that there wasn't much of an emotional connection. I had thought the same way for a long time, and I even tried having a boyfriend for a short while to see if my feelings would change, but they hadn't. Jokingly, I had pegged myself as selfish -- you know, 'cause I like how well men suck dick -- but secretly, I was a little more concerned. Can I feel that connected to anybody?

Well, honestly, I'm 24 and I really don't know. I haven't met "the one." I'm not in a position to, either, because I'm going to be busy for the next few years trying to make sense of my professional life. I'm putting a wife, a family, and all those deep existential questions on hold because I don't have time to waste. In the meantime, I'll have just as much fun dating recreationally and going out and meeting new people. That's all I need. I don't need to take someone home every night and bang the hell out of them; that's just not important to me (let alone my sexual health and sense of endangerment over STDs).

So, to you, Cale, I want more than anything for you to enjoy who you are and to make sense of all these looming questions about your sexuality at some other time. You're so incredibly young. Ever thought that maybe it would just be better to live a little and to put off this big quest to nosce teipsum later? It sounds like you're making a big deal of this sexuality thing, when really, the only person the "label" matters to is others. For me, I think my friends only asked which way I swing so it was easier for them to understand.

Me... well, I like girls all the way and I think guys give one hell of a blowjob, but that's all I really needed to know. Take care, bud.

 

[13788]

bih20: Cale..I dont think someone could have described how I feel better..I feel the same way.

If you want to chat, pm with your info.

 

[jonb]

Just remember, most folks are between 1 and 5 on the Kinsey scale, but just because you have two arms doesn't mean you'll be okay if I hacked one of them off.