Commitment dilemma

[sbat]

You make a fair point fuzzyken.

Her parents are not religious at all, simply extremely traditional having come from a rural Turkish background. Her mother especially is putting a lot of pressure on her to marry a Turkish man, to the point of setting up dates for her, and lately she has had a lot of arguments about independence with her mother. She is going back to Turkey after living here for 3 years for school, and many who know her are accusing her mother of forcing her to return

My father asked me to accompany him on a business trip to Turkey in September, so I will meet the parents then and will get a sense of how moveable they are on the issue.

She had wanted me to give the assurance that I would marry her if she decided she was willing to leave her parents and come back to the US, so basically me on standby while she makes up her mind. I told her I would see other people, and we would keep our relationship open until either she choose, or I met her parents and they end up liking me.

The girl in question has already made her decision. She has according to the understanding I have of the OP is that she cannot be separated from her parents. She threw it over to the boyfriend and expects him to change their minds.

Customs vary a great deal from country to country. There is way too much of which we are not aware here. Are the parents of a religion that would frown on a marriage of this nature. Was there an arranged marriage that was thrown in the trash can because of the daughters actions, and they are hoping to "save face" in some manner (with a child by this fellow this will be difficult if not impossible) but again we are trying to make a value judgment for or against one party or the other on very sketchy information.

The child is probably the worst casualty in this whole thing.

The idea when you get married is that you form your own "family unit" much like your own parents formed theirs and her parents did the same before procreating the species.
This would be a horrific relationship if a marriage were to take place because we already have control issues here and because of the lack of information we don't know who the controlling parties are for certain. Is it the girl herself or is it her parents?

The best advice I can give on this one is to give her the gift she wants most and that is her parents. If she is truly yours she will come back to you and realize that her love to you is what makes for a lasting relationship. If she does not do this my friend she was never yours to begin with, she still belonged to Mom and Dad.

 

[green carnation]

hmmm...i dont hear you saying you really want to marry the girlfriend, only that she might want to marry you. Doesnt really sound to me that there is a lot of love going on here.
Maybe neither of you are ready to commit to each other regardless of race and geography. If you love one another you can live anywhere together, if she is bargaining with you already you cant live anywhere with her happily. Good luck

 

[sbat]

hmmm...i dont hear you saying you really want to marry the girlfriend, only that she might want to marry you. Doesnt really sound to me that there is a lot of love going on here.
Maybe neither of you are ready to commit to each other regardless of race and geography. If you love one another you can live anywhere together, if she is bargaining with you already you cant live anywhere with her happily. Good luck

There is plenty of love. I'm simply getting frustrated with someone who lacks the resolve. She wants everything, but has to pick, and simply can't bring herself to make a choice - and wants it made for her. I don't want to be with a woman that can't make up her mind, or is unable to create her own priorities in life, or who is overly tied to her parents.

 

[HiddenLacey]

Sbat, IMO when you get married to someone, that person becomes your life and everything and everyone else apart from children if you have any, would come second. It sounds to me like she wants reassurance from you that if she cuts herself off from her family your going to be there for her. I understand how she feels, BUT she has to be able to stand on her own two feet and make the decision to separate from her parents.

And your not sure that her parents are going to have an issue with your being black, just with the fact that your not Turkish? That's the way it's coming off in your newer posts. Are Turkish people a very traditional people over all? I do think it's a good idea that you meet them and see how they react.

 

[big_tits4big_dicks]

Poor guy, what a mess! I want to be a hippie and say get married! Love concures all! But, we know this is not a Disney world or Beatles song. I think she will not be able to cut her parents of of her life, and I don't know even if she does, if she can stand it. I have leaned on my mother my whole life. My parents are my rock. So even if she does break away, I think it will cause issues later on, like if you have a baby. Her mother would be the one to stay with her and help her. But it sounds like this will not happen. I like to think that Romeo and Juliette would have made it work, but really, I think a family that can't get along has one foot in divorce court from the beginning Good luck! I hope you both can work it out, however it ends up.

 

[alwaysguessing]

Just be careful, I was "practically married" to my girlfriend for 2 years, and her mom controlled her every move, constantly undermining my efforts. I let her take time off work to straighten some shit out, then after 6 months I asked her to get a job, and her mom convinced her not to. I wanted to pay for her to go to school, and her mom convinced her there was no point. The thing is, I would discuss things with her for hours or even days, and we would finally come to a resolution that made sense. Then as soon as she got on the phone with her mother, all that rational decision-making would come undone, and she would simply do whatever her mother said.

I was depressed for those two years, finally kicked her out, and now I'm actually happy again. She is still just as miserable and lacking in direction. I wanted to help her but it was a fool's errand. At some point we have to be true to ourselves, and accept that we have limits.

 

[sbat]

Understood. I'm not going to fall into the trap of trying to change someone. For me, this is a litmus test of her own ability to get a grip on herself. She is 3 years older than me, yet naive and idealistic to a point that she suffers a lot of cognitive dissonance at the sacrifices and compromises needed for someone who is not extremely rich and powerful.

I love the girl, but I have no qualms with walking away if she proves unable to think independently.

 

[green carnation]

so now you mention love, and also some big words i dont know the meaning of, but it still doesnt sound like love to me. Not in the broader sense of the word which also encompasses acceptance, tolerance, faith and sacrifice.
I think submissive girl is right when she hints that the girlfriend, as you so endearingly refer to her as, is not entirely convinced by your love either. Thats why she is having doubts...maybe. Im afraid it is your love for each other that is the issue here, not where you will live etc etc

 

[sbat]

so now you mention love, and also some big words i dont know the meaning of, but it still doesnt sound like love to me. Not in the broader sense of the word which also encompasses acceptance, tolerance, faith and sacrifice.
I think submissive girl is right when she hints that the girlfriend, as you so endearingly refer to her as, is not entirely convinced by your love either. Thats why she is having doubts...maybe. Im afraid it is your love for each other that is the issue here, not where you will live etc etc

You're entitled to your opinion. I've opened myself to that in sharing my story.

However, when thinking about marriage and family, there's more than just love that needs to be considered. Given both of our educational and professional backgrounds, we can provide far better education and quality of life for children in the US than we ever could in Turkey, not to mention the social issues of an interracial marriage (in particular a black male/Turkish woman interracial marriage). I (through my parents) have a number of connections at universities across the US and UK to help her gain acceptance into a PhD program (which she is considering) that will gain her far greater access to the top tier resources in her field than would be available with a degree from a Turkish institution.

For her, its nothing more than an extreme attachment to her parents, particularly her mother, who was extremely overprotecting and sheltering for her growing up. From any rational standpoint - assuming love - she will make more money, live in a more open society, have a better life for her children, have the professional independence she craves, and be with a man she loves, if she chooses to come to the US.

 

[Viking_UK]

It's a major upheaval for your girl. OK, she's been in the US for I think you said three years, but that's completely different from relocating there permanently, especially if she's very close to her family. You also said you weren't willing to relocate to Turkey to be with her. I know there are prejudices there against mixed marriages, as there are in many places around the world, but it sounds like you're expecting her to make all the sacrifices. Yes, she may be better off financially if you're based in the States, but wealth isn't everything. If she's used to having her extended family around her on a daily basis, that's a hell of a lot to expect her to give up.

I don't mean to be offensive, but have you asked her for her and listened to her opinion, or have you just decided that you know best and that she's being irrational and letting emotion cloud her judgement? If that's the case, you should probably let her go. If it isn't, talk it out with her rather than a bunch of strangers. She may have fears and insecurities you don't know about yet and perhaps all she needs is the reassurance that you'll be there for her if your relationship estranges her from her parents.

I hope it all works out for the best.

 

[sbat]

She herself said she wouldn't be comfortable with the prejudices we would have to face in Turkey. You have to remember, she's also making significant career sacrifices to return to Turkey as well - the things she demands from life are simply not available to a woman from a middle class family (read: not wealthy and not politically influential). She could achieve them easily here in the US. She knows this. And it's not for extended family, not even for her brother. It's to be with her parents.

Having parents who both left extended families they were close to to come to the US to provide greater opportunity for themselves and their children, and living in a country where it is common for adults to see their parents only once or twice a year from age 18 and up, perhaps I take a certain level of independence for granted.

As read from the OP, I'm not seeking advice. I'm not asking to be told what to do. I'm asking people who have been in similar situations what they have done and why and perhaps how it turned out.

It's a major upheaval for your girl. OK, she's been in the US for I think you said three years, but that's completely different from relocating there permanently, especially if she's very close to her family. You also said you weren't willing to relocate to Turkey to be with her. I know there are prejudices there against mixed marriages, as there are in many places around the world, but it sounds like you're expecting her to make all the sacrifices. Yes, she may be better off financially if you're based in the States, but wealth isn't everything. If she's used to having her extended family around her on a daily basis, that's a hell of a lot to expect her to give up.

I don't mean to be offensive, but have you asked her for her and listened to her opinion, or have you just decided that you know best and that she's being irrational and letting emotion cloud her judgement? If that's the case, you should probably let her go. If it isn't, talk it out with her rather than a bunch of strangers. She may have fears and insecurities you don't know about yet and perhaps all she needs is the reassurance that you'll be there for her if your relationship estranges her from her parents.

I hope it all works out for the best.