Confidence = ????

Discussion in 'Relationships, Discrimination, and Jealousy' started by _avg_, Aug 26, 2008.

  1. _avg_

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    Confidence. In a word, it's what determines whether a person gets laid or goes home to fuck themselves. Men and women alike overwhelmingly agree that confidence is key to the romantic fling (and other things).

    But just what the hell is confidence?
    How does confidence differ from cockiness?
    How do you feel more confident?
    And just what's wrong with a good bit of modesty, anyways?!
     
  2. Phil Ayesho

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    many if not most young women can not tell confidence from cockiness or plain aggressiveness.

    That is why so many absolute assholes get laid.
    As women get older... the smarter ones begin to figure out the difference.

    Real confidence can come in many forms... but it is mostly based upon successful experience.
    Players are confident that they can get in your pants.... they may lack confidence in every other arena of life, but a string of successes with women leads to increasing confidence in approaching women...

    What women really want to see in confidence is a trait that translates into leadership or success.

    One way to identify confidence is to look around among the guys you know or work with for some guy who is having a really good year ( or decade) in terms of his career.

    Men who are on the rise career-wise get a kind of 'buzz'... they seem happy and relaxed and sure of themselves in a way that can not be faked.

    I have had it. I had a time when my income was growing exponentially, getting a lot of acclaim... and during that time women found me irresistible.
    I did not hesitate to approach the most desirable woman I had ever laid eyes on and tell her that I wanted her...

    When I suffered my first major setback... a dramatic drop in income, a divorce, litigation with the State.... all in the span of a few years... that buzz evaporated... and so did women's interest.

    Now... its coming back... as my latest business venture grows, I find myself gradually getting that sense of calm and self assurance back... only this time tempered with humility and a deeper understanding of how evanescent it can be.

    While I have always been confident in my abilities...there is a difference between thinking highly of yourself... and seeing OTHER people think highly of you.



    They key to young men gaining confidence is to find something you can really be great at, and pursue it. Be it surfing, or coding... no matter how uncertain you are in other areas... you will most likely find women interested in you in the area in which you excell... beach babes will go for the great surfer...
    Office chicks will respond to the king coder.


    Accomplished men exude an air of being pivotal.
    But the real core of it is the calm.... this serene sense that you have nothing to prove... because you have already been proven.
     
  3. _avg_

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    So then, Confidence = Success?

    Shit, no wonder I'm fucked...




    Thanks for a thoughtful reply; you seem to echo the sentiments of some others I've asked this question of.
     
  4. SpeedoGuy

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    Nothing's wrong with it, in my opinion, avg. I believe it to be a sign of solid character.

    But in a culture where so many are loudly tooting their own horns, modesty is not regarded as a virtue. Quite the opposite, unfortunately.
     
  5. Phil Ayesho

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    confidence is not tooting your own horn...

    Real confidence is quiet and calm... Its hard to describe, but it is not strutting, its not bravado..

    And as far as success... what I sdaid was "successful experience"...it need not be financial success...

    Most players I know are financial losers or mediocre workaday guys.... but they have a lot of successful experience at approaching women... that confidence in their own ability to score with girls is the largest part of their scoring with girls... but watch a player...they are not loud... they are quiet, and assured.
    The self confidence does not make them braggarts... it makes them relaxed. Without nervousness.



    Financial success is a huge confidence builder... but you can feel successful about anything... what got me in with girls before I was self confident about women was my own self confidence in my ability as an artist.
    IT wasn't much... but in the right circumstances, it was enough.

    Seek opportunities for women to see you in the realm in which you feel most comfortable and self assured... As you figure how to make that work for you... your confidence with women in general will improve.

    Some men become players by hardening their hearts and just not giving a damn about rejection.... can't get a broken heart if your heart's never in play...

    But what really weakens women in the knees is when a man is self confident enough to risk his heart... not that he doesn't care if she breaks it.... but that, for her, he would be willing to risk having his heart shattered.


    But real self confidence, as opposed to swagger is neither boisterous nor self aggrandizing.
    Its being so un-self-conscious that you can actually forget about you... and can really focus on her.


    (- just another woman-hating post from the resident misanthrope)
     
  6. D_Della Doubledees

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    That's poetry.... and so so so true.
     
  7. Pendlum

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    Sounds more like dreaming to me. How can you even register something like that? I don't think you could really tell what he is really risking. Not to mention I think if you are willing to risk your heart and all that dance, there is a good chance you'll get labeled clingy and smothering. And you know how fast that will get you dumped.

    As for confidence, I'm not entirely sure anyone really knows what they are talking about, and how it somehow gets you women. I'll admit not confident in my ability to "get" women. Which is kind of funny when you think about how you even get confidence if it is so hard to get any without it. (Yet another reason I think this is flimsy). Anyway, I am confident in myself though. But I guess that doesn't cut it.

    Oh and I guess I'll point out that the poetry has another flaw. Like I said, I think it is basically impossible to see. IF it were, it would take more than a first meeting, that would take intimate knowledge of someone. So how would that help you find someone? It's like a key locked in the box that it opens.

    That's my opinion at least.
     
  8. johnlucas-1

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    FINALLY! Somebody answered a question correctly!

    Confidence is Success.
    More defined confidence comes from positive feedback, a series of positive feedbacks.

    Usually a guy who is successful with women had something inherent in his makeup (genes) that attracted some women. The women either came to him or he easily lowered the defenses of women as he went to them. Should say girls since it often starts early in life.

    The male found everything sparked with one girl, then another girl, then another girl. And most times it's not because of something he consciously did. It was inherent in him and the repeated positive feedback he received made him confident in his abilities to access women.

    It's all spiral. Upward spiral. Downward spiral. Feedback loop. Positive feedback loop. Negative feedback loop.

    The best antidote to any complex is a series of positive experiences. The best way to maintain and worsen any complex is a series of negative experiences.

    One who didn't have something the females liked and got rejected by one girl, by another girl, by another girl—he will find himself anxious and unsure about himself around women.

    They don't have the full puzzle of what makes a person attractive which is why no one knows fully how to make themselves over into a magnet. They have bits and pieces and the advice is bits and pieces. Some of it works but when it doesn't there's no explanation because no one has the full picture.

    Like Phil says, when it's there it's second nature. Never thought out and preplanned. When you know you can do something you go out and do it to its fullest. And you show your mastery. When you don't, then you retreat and avoid.

    There are tricks to bringing it out but the only real way to be successful with women is to HAVE success with women repeatedly. Paradox. The hard heart routine Phil mentioned is one way to play the odds game by trying multiple women out until you get a feel for the thing.

    Confidence is the evidence of a history of success.
    John Lucas
     
  9. Stephenmass

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    I won't define confidence but I know when someone has it and someone doesn't.

    An arrogant man is full of themselves and appears ignorant to me, and selfish.

    A confident man is never full of themselves, are comfortable in their own skin, and usually very approachable and very unselfish.

    It is OK to love yourself. It is not OK to love yourself so much that you forget about others.
     
  10. Phil Ayesho

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    you're 19... you are guessing. I'm 50... i'm not guessing.
    I said clearly that many young women mistake swagger and aggression for confidence. That is why young men get such miserably inconsistent feedback from young women.
    But then, young women almost never meet young men who are genuinely self confident... the young men simply don't have enough experience to have gained that sense of self.


    But smarter women... and more experienced women eventually figure out how to tell the difference.

    As to risking your heart... you CAN invest in a woman emotionally, WITHOUT smothering her.
    Smothering her is needy and approval seeking... its saying 'love me love me love me' its asking 'can I love you, let me love you , please let me love you..."

    Confidence is entirely different...
    I don't need a woman's permission to love her.
    I can love her regardless of her response. I can be unafraid of being stricken by her rejection..
    I can get hurt by a woman... let her see that tear in my eye.. and show her that I can walk off, hurt, but unembarrassed, and unbroken.

    Its hard to explain to someone so young... but trust me... its true...
    Even the ugliest guy in the band get's laid for showing the confidence to perform well in front of a crowd.


    For women, 85% of communication is non-verbal. They are interpreting your actions on a far more nuanced level than you can hope to imagine.

    You can know exactly what a horse is thinking if you spend enough time around horses to understand the subtle nuances in posture, gaze, ear movement, tail twitches and such...

    Similarly, without your realizing it, you are broadcasting to those around you on levels you are not aware of. The tone and cadence of your speech, for example, tell a woman more about your level of self confidence than does the words you are speaking.

    You are HOPING it is something they can not see... because then you can come up with other excuses as to why you don't do better with women.

    Or you can recognize that experience is what breeds confidence, and not avoid new, and perhaps harsh, experience.

    Players got shot down a lot to learn how to play... players get shot down more often than those who are not players... simply because they take more shots. And they learn from every failure... and every success.

    Think how many times you have to die in a videogame to get good at it.



    You can doubt it all you want... but when everyone significantly older than you tells you the same thing... that self confidence is key... chances are they know somehting thru hard experience that you have yet to discover.

    Try it. Find something you are good at... and practice it... especially something that might involve social contact with women.

    If you really want to build an important social confidence with women... learn to dance well.

    For women, dancing is sexual. And guys who can do it well are few and far between. If you are a good dancer... you will know it and that confidence will translate into a pleasurable experience on the floor...

    And every woman in the room will want to have that experience.

    My Dad did real well with women... because we was always one of the best dancers in any club he set foot in... and women swooned just to follow his confident and competent lead.




    All insecurity and lack of confidence is based in fear.

    Women crave security.... part of how men offer that security is in being a calm and fearless champion.

    And keep in mind, every woman is an absolute sucker for genuine devotion, for genuine fascination and interest.



    PS- fortune favors the bold...
    Women want to see you be bold... without being brash.
     
    #10 Phil Ayesho, Aug 27, 2008
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2008
  11. Phil Ayesho

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    a word on what women see.

    The football star jock gets the girls without even trying...

    How?

    What a woman sees is a man, on a field of contest, in front of the whole community, risking his name and reputation on the chance of failure... and pulling it off.

    She see's both how he handles success, and how he handles failure, and comes back to try even harder.


    The football star is showing he is bold, confident, and resilient.


    The shy guy who is afraid of rejection is showing nothing but timidity.

    In the game of love the football star DESERVES the girl more, because he is the one willing to lay himself on the line, even if only in football..
     
  12. D_Della Doubledees

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    This is truly flooring me. You need to write a book. I do agree that when I was 19, I didn't KNOW this is what I wanted in a man. At thirty-something (lol)... It's ALL I'm looking for.



    Great advice!!! Just visit Austin, Texas sometime. UT has the largest freshman class of any university... cute girls, smart girls, all single.... catch them down at the Continental Club waiting in line to dance with the best swing dancers and two-steppers you've ever seen. These men aren't the most handsome, strapping, boyish studs in the joint. Some of them, you'd probably call 'old farts'.... but these men can DANCE. Their confidence makes them incredibly sexy and desirable, and they all seem to have a genuine respect for dancing itself, not just the opportunity to grind against a woman.... (I digress).

    Phil, you need to write a book.... and save me a dance.
    LOL
     
  13. D_Tamerton Taintpussie

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    Phil, you sound so interesting.

    As someone trying to wean themselves off younger men (who in general are starting to bore me more and more intellectually), you give me hope...:rolleyes:
     
  14. Phil Ayesho

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    Sure.... NOW I know all this stuff.... when it can do me little good as I am smitten and committed. ( and old)
    I wish I had really understood it when I was 20.

    ( or believed it )
     
  15. Phil Ayesho

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    PS but I had learned it by age 35.

    And it enabled me to recognize, and win, the woman of my dreams...
     
  16. D_Tamerton Taintpussie

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    That's so cool.

    My aspirations in that regard are not as noble. I wish I knew what I now know about men, when I was younger. I would have taken myself, and sex, a whole lot less seriously. And been a helluva lot less well-behaved...:redface:
     
  17. Phil Ayesho

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    As with me... better late than never...

    It was a long and painful 15 years between 20 and 35...

    But thank god young women were not much more astute than I was as a young man...
    Otherwise they might never have given me a chance.
     
  18. Viking_UK

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    Phil, you're right about the dancing.

    I was OK at sports, but only good at racket sports which didn't draw too many spectators in my school so I never got too much attention from that. However, I could dance, and once girls found that out, I got a lot more company. I don't suppose it hurt that I suddenly sprouted from 5'8" to over 6' fairly quickly without suffering acne either!

    Back to the topic at hand, confidence is knowing you're able to do something without reassurance or affirmation from anyone else. It's hard to build, easy to destroy and often misplaced. (God, that sounds like something my old minister would say!)
     
  19. D_Coyne Toss

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    If you are confident you don't need to be too cocky and immodest. You know you can, you don't need to pretend you do!
     
  20. DonJuanDeShenzhen

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    Great posts Phil. Your insights are remarkable.
     
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