Confusion about average size

1g5463

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It is definitely the case that the more endowed you are, the more extroverted socially you are.It is not always the case but it does perhaps create an impression of the average size being bigger. It is probably on a par with the large amounts of selection bias in mainstream porn. That and everybody adds 2 inches to their length :p
 
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lebrave

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Did you take a ruler with you? Are you aware they don't all get much longer? Did you know you cannot extrapolate erect size from flaccid? Did you forget that gym showers are not random, but voluntary, and those afraid to be seen make sure they are not? The plural of anecdote is anecdotes, not data. ;)

Good studies use random samples, which means no volunteers to be in the situation. Good studies use rulers, not eyeballing from a distance out of the corner of one's eye during a stolen glance.

I spent just about every Sunday for four years at a nude beach, and just about every Tuesday for two years at a clothing optional swingers' resort. I made a conscious effort not to peek, but what I did observe does not match what you observed, and many more people (and from all over the world) fit onto a nude beach than into a locker room. Can you see why this kind of evidence holds extremely little water?


I generally agree with you: I have just a few objections
1) what makes you think that the public of a locker room shower is different from a nudist beach? Most people don't care of their size, or just don't make a point of it to avoid to take a shower.
2) If someone sports a big softie, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna grow. It can be a shower. But in big numbers, big ones hard are big soft too.
3) I'm just saying that statistics put me on top 7%, both soft and hard. I don't know about hard of course, but about 1/3 of the people I'm showering with are in my same size department. A stolen glance is not accurate but sufficient to say this, I think.
4) studies are always on voluntarily base
 

AlteredEgo

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I generally agree with you: I have just a few objections
1) what makes you think that the public of a locker room shower is different from a nudist beach? Most people don't care of their size, or just don't make a point of it to avoid to take a shower.
2) If someone sports a big softie, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's gonna grow. It can be a shower. But in big numbers, big ones hard are big soft too.
3) I'm just saying that statistics put me on top 7%, both soft and hard. I don't know about hard of course, but about 1/3 of the people I'm showering with are in my same size department. A stolen glance is not accurate but sufficient to say this, I think.
4) studies are always on voluntarily base
There are hundreds of nude men on the beach at any moment after 11AM. No locker room has hundreds of people at a time in it. Go to any website in support of small and average penises, and the men there will tell you in overwhelming numbers that they do not urinate at open urinals, undress in public, nor shower in public. They will agonize for months over whether or not to go to a nude recreational venue like a pool, park, campsite, or beach. They will celebrate like they completed a marathon if they sack up the nerve to follow through. What you see publicly is people who are willing to be seen publicly. I also think you're a bad estimator, which was my point. An anecdote is of insignificant value. I've seen at least as many naked men as you. I've probably seen more erections than you. I think this makes me as credible a witness as you. But my observations do not match yours. I observe that most flaccid dicks seem to be between 3 and 5 inches in length, though there are plenty that are completely retracted, or much longer than the others. But that's just incidental observations I didn't even intend to make. However, whichever of us is closer to being correct in our estimations, is still seeing a number that would be above average. Time and time again the little guys say they don't expose themselves to observation because it is emasculating and humiliating. Sad, but true.

Your second objection is a logical fallacy. It does not follow that larger groups of larger flaccid dicks means more larger erections. That's an assumption, not something you can prove. Other outcomes are possible, so without proof...

Regarding your third objection, I would reassert that those other men volunteered to be observed nude in public, automatically making them more likely to be bigger because those who volunteer are usually bigger. Take the useless condom company surveys, as a lesson. They send beautiful women to offer free shirts and condoms to men who will volunteer for the study. Those studies by that method ALWAYS end up with a larger average than other more scientifically sound studies. Why? Because the little ones won't do it as often as the bigger ones.

Your fourth objection is outright false. Some of the better studies were conducted by urologists on random patients, and by governments on military servicemembers. While these men volunteered to see a doctor, they did not volunteer to participate in the study. The servicemembers may or may not have volunteered to be in the armed forces, but they did not volunteer for the studies. You are mistaken.
 
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1g5463

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I still wonder if some stats can be reliable however. It would be hard to get an erection under such circumstances which might not reflect size accurately. BPFSL is also taken but that can vary depending upon the penis type- grower or shower. Drug induced erections are often more powerful than regular erections which might account for slight increases that would not be existent for the most part.Even penile shapes might skew the results. A curved one might not be suitable for the top only method, for example.
 

pcghabsy

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While most surveys available about penis size are suspect, they are still far more reliable than anecdotal evidence (misnomer, it's not evidence at all) which are clouded by all kinds of biases. So, it may be true that most men you come across are larger than 5.5", for various reasons, many of which AlteredEgo and others have pointed out. But you should not be confused by the distinction between your very biased and personal observation from a very limited sample and the truth out there across billions of people.

I bet the actual worldwide average is well under 5.5". Some of the non-volunteer clinical trials suggest 5". Still, while the sample sizes aren't enough to be representative, it's still more than a personal anecdote or two.
 
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lebrave

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There are hundreds of nude men on the beach at any moment after 11AM. No locker room has hundreds of people at a time in it. Go to any website in support of small and average penises, and the men there will tell you in overwhelming numbers that they do not urinate at open urinals, undress in public, nor shower in public. They will agonize for months over whether or not to go to a nude recreational venue like a pool, park, campsite, or beach. They will celebrate like they completed a marathon if they sack up the nerve to follow through. What you see publicly is people who are willing to be seen publicly.

Your second objection is a logical fallacy. It does not follow that larger groups of larger flaccid dicks means more larger erections. That's an assumption, not something you can prove. Other outcomes are possible, so without proof...

Regarding your third objection, I would reassert that those other men volunteered to be observed nude in public, automatically making them more likely to be bigger because those who volunteer are usually bigger. Those studies by that method ALWAYS end up with a larger average than other more scientifically sound studies. Why? Because the little ones won't do it as often as the bigger ones.

[...] The servicemembers may or may not have volunteered to be in the armed forces, but they did not volunteer for the studies. You are mistaken.

Alter you sure are a more credible witness. :p I've seen only 3 other erections of my best buddies in the years. Indeed I rationally agree with you. Although let me underscore that your argument is based on another assumption. That people in small penis websites are representative of "small people". Those who go there have of course confidence problem, but I think - I hope - that most men with small penises just dealt with it in their pubescence, and with first love experiences. And on another specular assumption: that "bigger people" are more confident about sex. This website is again an exception. Are you sure that bigger men are more likely to accept an offer from a beautiful woman?
Anyway I know my -short- lifetime experience is an anecdote, not a proof.
 
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pcghabsy

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If penis size research were suspect because of "self-reporting" then woouldn't the reported average size be larger than reality--not smaller? Average is, and always will be, between 5 1/2 and 6 1/2
Yes. Hence if it is reported as 6, in reality it's probably much lower.

Besides, I wouldn't even consider the self-reporting surveys. The other surveys are suspect for other reasons.
 

AlteredEgo

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If penis size research were suspect because of "self-reporting" then woouldn't the reported average size be larger than reality--not smaller? Average is, and always will be, between 5 1/2 and 6 1/2
Self-reported surveys and studies do come back with higher numbers. Where did you read otherwise? Anyway, average is between 5.1"-5.5" if you only consider studies done on non-volunteer subjects measured by the people conducting the study, not self-reported.

Alter you sure are a more credible witness. :p I've seen only 3 other erections of my best buddies in the years. Indeed I rationally agree with you. Although let me underscore that your argument is based on another assumption. That people in small penis websites are representative of "small people". Those who go there have of course confidence problem, but I think - I hope - that most men with small penises just dealt with it in their pubescence, and with first love experiences. And on another specular assumption: that "bigger people" are more confident about sex. This website is again an exception. Are you sure that bigger men are more likely to accept an offer from a beautiful woman?
Anyway I know my -short- lifetime experience is an anecdote, not a proof.
Well, I am making assumption, but not the assumptions you think. I assume that when men on small penis sites put their average and smaller measurements into their profiles, that they are being honest. It seems that most men, if they are going to fudge the size, go bigger, not smaller. So I feel very comfortable believing large numbers of men reporting small and average penis sizes. If anything, they are likely even smaller than they say. The other assumption is that surveys done to test whether larger-hung men have more sex are reliable. There was a survey where penis sizes were self-reported, but the size issue wasn't the main purpose. What they found was that the men who reported themselves as much larger answered questions in a way that determined them to have more confidence, and reported that their frequency of sex at a higher rate than those who reported themselves smaller. It wasn't particularly scientific, but it was interesting, and it correlated to my experiences, and those of others with whom I've discussed this.

Yes, I'm sure bigger hung men are more likely to respond to a beautiful woman. It's the reason the average among my partners is over 7". It's the reason most promiscuous people see so many big dicks they think the average is much higher than it is. And smaller hung men on support websites report that they have broken up with women right before it could get sexual. That they have avoided dating altogether. That they are never going to meet anyone. The gay ones say the same thing. It's really quite unfortunate.
 

ShannonH

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fournineteenfiftynine - you're just measuring wrong. There's no way you're finding predominantly ~8" men -- even on this site that's exceptionally long. If you're the smallest by far out of 20, odds are you do have a small penis. If you're 5" pressing the ruler in, you can't compare that to studies that don't press. If you want to follow a well-defined methodology, and compare against solid data, this Brasilian study is a good resource: http://www.scielo.br/pdf/jped/v83n5/en_v83n5a08.pdf

All this stuff about average guys not dating and such is unsubstantiated rubbish. We've seen studies that both select men who think they're small (those who believe they have short-penises, and are so convinced of it they want a dangerous surgery), and studies that look at men who think they're large. There are certainly behavioural differences between men who think they're big vs men who think they're small, but surprisingly, there's very little correlation between the size men have in their heads and their actual size. This is true whether straight or gay.
 

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One peek at any website for small and average men will prove to you that for various reasons they are not generally promiscuous as a group. They tend to abstain altogether, or find that one special someone and get married. They are not out there that much, and large numbers of them report they avoid having partners with lots of experience, especially experience with larger. The reasons seem to vary, but the outcome is the same. The most sexually active people tend to attract a much higher number of larger-endowed men.

What's your source, other than personal experience.
 

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Yes. Hence if it is reported as 6, in reality it's probably much lower.

Besides, I wouldn't even consider the self-reporting surveys. The other surveys are suspect for other reasons.


men with penis insecurities will participate in penis surveys ,nit well endowed men ....they just don't care ....But men with small or average (like mine) penis size it is more likely to participate (anonymously) in these surveys with the hope that they are not alone ....
 
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Our individual observations and experiences simply amount to "individual." How is it that individuals are often challenging large number collections of data? Any study I have ever seen supports an overall average of 5.5 inches. Data supports science and science fills the gaps in our individual observations and experiences.

My personal observations are scattered all over the board, depending on country, social setting, age, sobriety ;) ..............

I'll stick to the available data for now.
 
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creek47

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Wow, this thread came back from the dead.

He average is 5.5 inches. Why all the i
Our individual observations and experiences simply amount to "individual." How is it that individuals are often challenging large number collections of data? Any study I have ever seen supports an overall average of 5.5 inches. Data supports science and science fills the gaps in our individual observations and experiences.

My personal observations are scattered all over the board, depending on country, social setting, age, sobriety ;) ..............

I'll stick to the available data for now.
Social setting? Explain please
 

lavalava

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What's your source, other than personal experience.


can we make a thred
Our individual observations and experiences simply amount to "individual." How is it that individuals are often challenging large number collections of data? Any study I have ever seen supports an overall average of 5.5 inches. Data supports science and science fills the gaps in our individual observations and experiences.

My personal observations are scattered all over the board, depending on country, social setting, age, sobriety ;) ..............

I'll stick to the available data for now.

large number collections of data??? every scientific study was done for ED or penis augmentation .....I bet ,if i pick 30 men that live on my town (randomly) aged 20-30 years old ,the average nbpel would be about 6,5''-7'' ....the penis studies are in no way more reliable than personal experiences...women's opinions matter....not some scientific studies of people with ED .....and in my observations ,7'' nbpel is common like 6'' nbpel ...
 

ItsAll4Kim

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can we make a thred


large number collections of data??? every scientific study was done for ED or penis augmentation .....I bet ,if i pick 30 men that live on my town (randomly) aged 20-30 years old ,the average nbpel would be about 6,5''-7'' ....the penis studies are in no way more reliable than personal experiences...women's opinions matter....not some scientific studies of people with ED .....and in my observations ,7'' nbpel is common like 6'' nbpel ...
Since when was "every scientific study...done for ED or penis augmentation"?? There are a host of reasons to do these studies. And what would ED have to do with skewing results smaller?

Your anecdotal experience doesn't agree with ANY reputable scientific study.