Congratulations America

hotbtminla

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If anyone votes on a candidate based purely on race or gender, please give them a bitchslap. I think policies and ideologies are alot more important.

Frizzle, you're echoing a comment I made earlier. :smile: I honestly don't think any of us here (or the vast majority of Americans) are voting for Barack or Hillary because of their race or gender. Anyone with a brain would recognize that's a pretty dumb reason to vote for somebody. Though obviously not enough Americans vote with their brains, as evidenced by the past 7 years.

Domisoldo is right in that there are few dogmatic differences between Barack and Hillary. They believe in most of the same ends, just have some different ideas on the means to those ends. So for a lot of people it comes down to a literal popularity contest, and for some that means factoring in race or gender. Or not. I support Barack for a lot of reasons, none of which are because he's black or a man.

The excitement they're generating is undeniably based on historic precedent. But it's also based on 7/10 Americans not being able to get rid of the Bush administration fast enough, and hopefully before they create yet another catastrophe.

Just go for the most reliable and probably most efficient candidate then.

McCain.

:eek:
 

Northland

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We can all rave about W's last ever State of The Union address at least...
But was it? What if McCain pays George W. Bush back for his support, by offering him the Vice Presidential slot and in short order McCain dies leaving George W. in the position of finishing off another term during which he could conceivably have 3 or 4 more State of The Union addresses?
 

hotbtminla

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But was it? What if McCain pays George W. Bush back for his support, by offering him the Vice Presidential slot and in short order McCain dies leaving George W. in the position of finishing off another term during which he could conceivably have 3 or 4 more State of The Union addresses?

Fortunately that would require an amendment to the Constitution (which ain't gonna happen) that lifts the two-term limit for Presidents. Vice President is required to be Constitutionally eligible to serve as President. W is Constitutionally ineligible for VP (as is Bill Clinton) because he's served two terms.
 

littledickboy111

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The black man will tax you to death and take your cake.

Not that black people are criminals.

Liberals are criminals.

Barrack is a liberal.

And black.

But he's a criminal because he's a liberal.

Not because he's black.

I hope I didn't offend anyone.

Except liberals.

And only white liberals.

Black liberals are okay.

As long as they're not running for president.

Not that there's anything wrong with black people running for president.

There's a problem with liberals running for president.

All liberals.

Any color.

Barrack is black.

Barrack is a liberal.

He should be stopped because he's a liberal.

Not because he's black.

... I'm leaving now.
 

headbang8

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Congratulations are in order. For the first time in living memory, people are choosing from two intelligent, highly qualified candidates, either of which oculd make a great leader. It's a choice of whom one likes better, not whom you want to keep from office. Even Hillary's opponents need to give her credit for that.
 

hotbtminla

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The black man will tax you to death and take your cake.

Unfortunately he may have to in order to pay for the gross fiscal irresponsibility of our President and the kowtowing Congress that was in place for his first six years.

Everyone pays taxes dude, get over it. And "the black man" is no more likely to raise taxes than "the woman," "the fake Republican" and "the preacher" based on their records and platforms. For fuck's sake, the revered Ronald Reagan implemented the largest tax increase in US history. Twice.
 

kirstyinglis

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I think the main point at the opening of this thread has been missed by many. I don't think anyone's saying that they're voting (or condoning voting) based on a candidates race or sex, it's the fact that America has come sooooo far as to have the realistic possibility this year of a woman or a black man taking office. Personally, I think it's remarkable and something to be proud of.

Incidentally - I think Barrack's scrumptious!
 

faceking

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Speaking as a UK guy who loves America with all it's faults I have to say that the real winners of the current round of Primaries are the American people. Is it only 40 years since the civil rights movement? and here we have a real possibility of a Black American President. Whatever your political leanings you have to admit how far things have moved.

Wow... and I'm sure you had similar comments around the Bush Administration appointing Condy Rice and Colin Powell to their positions???

Can't recall Kennedy, Carter, Clinton nominating some color to the most powerful positions in the US. Yeah, you and the liberal mainstream media here in the States seem to gloss over it. Understood, right.
 

faceking

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McCain doesn't "get" the economy. He says so himself. That's a very important policy sphere. Even our social policy is largely dependent on the health of our economy.

He also supported our embarrassing and insanely costly meddling in Iraq, MUCH more so than Hillary.

I am afraid he will more likely understand the world in old-guard militaristic terms, although I applaud his standing firmly (relatively speaking) against the religious bigots and having the guts to propose an unpopular but largely wise immigration plan.

A President really needn't get the economy, a capable, smart candidate will appoint aides/advisors who do get it. The most powerful influence on the economy, far more than any president could ever wish, is the Fed Chairman. This is basic, 101 type of stuff....
 

JustAsking

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A President really needn't get the economy, a smart candidate will appoint aides/advisors who do get it. The most powerful influence on the economy, far more than any president could ever wish, is the Fed Chairman. This is basic, 101 type of stuff....
That's right, faceking. Our current record national debt has nothing to do with George Bush. Also, the current mortgage crisis, caused by massive deregulation of the banking industry has nothing to do with him either. That damn Fed Chairman!
 

SpeedoGuy

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Also, the current mortgage crisis, caused by massive deregulation of the banking industry has nothing to do with him either. That damn Fed Chairman!

No, no, no...you've got it all wrong, JA.

Deregulation always makes things better for the consumer, see. The Savings and Loan scandal in the 80s, or Enron's contrived power grid "crisis" in California in 2000, or the mutual fund skimming scams in the early 2000s, airlines in bankruptcy post 9/11, and now the great mortgage meltdown should all serve as reminders of the advantages to the little guy of deregulation. :rolleyes:
 

eaglespga88

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That's right, faceking. Our current record national debt has nothing to do with George Bush. Also, the current mortgage crisis, caused by massive deregulation of the banking industry has nothing to do with him either. That damn Fed Chairman!

It wasnt his fault. Alan Greenspan is a fucking idiot and its been his fault. The economy is supposed to naturally go up and down. Greenspan spent his whole career trying to put off the "downs" eventually he is gonna run out of time and all the "putting off" is gonna blow up and ruin our economy beyond recognition. To a point he should have just let it naturally flow some more than what he did.
 

Shelby

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Don't look now but a black man is kicking ass in some seriously whitebread states like Maine, Utah, North Dakota and Minnesota.

While I don't deny there are racists (and always will be) I think arguing the case that ours is a racist society - a la Al and Jesse - is becoming increasingly transparent. Go Barack!
 

Ethyl

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It's sad that this is even a relevant issue.

QFT.

If we're going to talk about recognising a candidate for presidency based on race or gender, i'll ruffle a few feathers by stating that I don't want a female candidate to embarrass my gender by doing a shoddy job while in office.

There are a few concerns I have with Hillary:

1) Suggesting health care be mandated legally. That's not an answer to making sure health care is available to everyone and it penalises those who can't afford it. Difficult enough to find affordable car insurance and now they're checking your credit to see how much they should charge you. Wonder if that's in the cards for health care? She hasn't outlined a plan that would work, IMO.

2) She voted "yes" on the war. That bugs the living shit outta me. What the fuck was she thinking?

3) She believes the end justifies the means from what I read. That bugs me too.

That said, I don't believe gender or race should be a factor in voting. People will argue that it still matters for some people but there aren't enough of them to make a difference.

Obama impresses me more with each passing day. He may be a relative n00b but it doesn't mean he can't do the job.
 
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A President really needn't get the economy, a capable, smart candidate will appoint aides/advisors who do get it. The most powerful influence on the economy, far more than any president could ever wish, is the Fed Chairman. This is basic, 101 type of stuff....

1. We live in far too complex a world to disassociate decision-making and problem-solving to the extent you are suggesting. Who would want a McCain or any US president who would delegate massively important policy decisions to underlings because he/she can't grasp the problem at hand.

2. Both Hillary and Obama are smart and capable, ergo all they have to do is appoint aides/advisors, right?

3. 101 stuff? I somehow managed to make it to 909...That is probably why I am leery of simplistic answers to complex questions.

I never suggested than the US president single-handedly controlled the economy. There is growing evidence than the Federal Reserve is losing its grip on the monetary sphere as well as capitals are truly going global and the dogma of deregulation has backfired in a tragic way.

BTW: Bush's decision to mess up in Iraq had no economic impact? Where do we start? The US president can certainly mess up the economy in a trillion-dollar way!

Wow... and I'm sure you had similar comments around the Bush Administration appointing Condy Rice and Colin Powell to their positions???

Can't recall Kennedy, Carter, Clinton nominating some color to the most powerful positions in the US. Yeah, you and the liberal mainstream media here in the States seem to gloss over it. Understood, right.


Condi & Colin...granted. They certainly break the stereotypes, but Lawrence Thomas, the most despised justice on the planet, cancelled the Condi & Colin goodwill. Let's not dwell on the former DOJ head either...

The Clinton administration was exceptionally women-friendly too...(yup, all the way:tongue:)
 

whatireallywant

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Electing either would be a ginormous leap for the US. Let's also not forget that a mere 50 years before women were granted suffrage here black people were owned by white people. 140 years is a long time by US history standards, but not in the grand scheme of world history. So it's absolutely huge either way.

That said, I think what's most important is not that we elect a woman or a black man, but the person who most likely make the best president. I happen to think that person is the black man and I voted for him today. But if he doesn't win the nomination, my second choice is the woman. So hopefully I'll get to have my cake and eat it too. :)



Rimmer, today was the first time in a long, long time that I was proud of my country. Barack won in states that if you'd told me 10 years ago would pick a black guy for President I would have waited for the punchline. Hillary won in states that if you told me 10 years ago would select our then First Lady for President I would have fallen out of my chair. And there was record turnout across the nation across every demographic... it feels great right now. :smile:

This is how I feel about it too. My state hasn't had its primary yet. I personally would have no problem with either of the Democratic candidates, but I will vote for Obama because he stands a better chance of winning and because he was against the war from the beginning. Other than that I see no real difference in ideology between him and Hillary.

I'm not sure I agree with you. At this point it's really not a concern because Obama stands to win the nomination for the democratic party.

Being overseas you may not realize this but a great number of Southerners and white men nationwide hate her. Not for her poitics or healthcare plan but becasue when she was first lady she hyphenated her name and worse didn't know her place. She didn't act like a presidents wife. Apparently she was supposed to spend her time doing needlepoint and redecorating the Oval Office, or maybe buy some new dishes. :rolleyes::confused:

My great grandmother used to say that being black is like using Bryl Cream a little dab will do you. :biggrin1: According to many laws which date back to the Civil War if you are 1/16th black you are black.

Speaking of , where is his mother? Is she not well? Is she still alive?

Very true. Obama stands a chance of winning. Too many people HATE Hillary (not just white men and Southerners but white women too! :eek: I don't know how much of that is because she's a woman and how much is because she's a Clinton.) She would not win, unfortunately. I would have no problem personally with either of them as president, though.