Congress vs. White House: FOIA

Discussion in 'Et Cetera, Et Cetera' started by DC_DEEP, Feb 1, 2008.

  1. DC_DEEP

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    Pres Bush signed the OPEN Government Act into law, and now the White House has indicated that it intends to defy the law by transferring funding to a more "fox guarding the henhouse" situation.

    Senators criticize White House

    I'm just wondering, is he never going to be held accountable for all the laws he breaks?

    Be sure to check the "issued challenges this week" and "The OPEN Government Act" links within this article to get corroborating stories...
     
  2. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    No they will not. Whomever is president will simply continue with business as usual and when questioned about it will advise us, "to move on."

    Just like Clinton got away with perjury, so Bush and Co. will get away with breaking the law.

     
  3. Lex

    Lex
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    Most people aren't educated/aware enough to know that he is breaking the laws. Others are too fearful of being labeled unpatriotic to say anything. You do know that there are those among us who feel that the President is beyond reproach.

    Without an informed and organized people, government will continue to abuse power. Period.

    SIGH.
     
  4. Mem

    Mem
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    It depends on what the meaning of "away" is.

    As for the thread topic.....Quelle Surprise!
     
  5. DC_DEEP

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    Really. Quelle surprise! There have been so many topics I've wanted to comment on, but I'm just so overwhelmed, there are too many to keep up with.

    But the whole FOIA thing, supression of documents that are supposed to be public record, obstructionist techniques, I've been watching this one more closely than some others.

    The Bush administration has no authority to divert funding from the National Archives to the Department of Justice, especially if that funding was mandated by Congress. Remember the old saying, "Congress controls the purse strings." Not the White House.

    Jason, I'm not a big fan of Bill Clinton, but to compare his testimony when asked about his sex life, to the Bush administration perjuries, obstructions of justice, and collusion... that's just ludicrous.
     
  6. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    It certainly set the stage for Bush. Perjury is perjury is perjury. It's a felony and he committed it while President of the United States. If you dismiss the context in which it occurred then you lose moral authority when you call out Bush for violation of constitutional rights as one could well say, as it is being said, it's all done in the name of national security. Equivocation of felonies by a sitting president is dangerous and, I believe, morally reprehensible.

    Clinton and Bush appear to have committed felonies and each should face trial for them. I would expect the counts, and therefore the possible sentence, to be much stiffer in the case of Bush.

     
  7. DC_DEEP

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    Please, don't hijack this thread. Clinton did face trial for his perjury. He was impeached. What he should have done when the Whitewater Special Prosecutor asked him about his sex life, was say "none of your business. I will answer questions about Whitewater."

    If you insist that Clinton committed numerous other felonies, feel free to start a thread about it. I respect a lot of what you post, but if you start in with "the previous president did something wrong, so we shouldn't say anything when the current president does something wrong", you are going to paint a whole different picture of yourself... and not a good one.
     
  8. HazelGod

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    Of course not...because he just bullies the lameass Congress into retroactively authorizing him to perform all those heretofore illegal activities. And retroactively shield corporate common carriers from any culpability for their complicity in such illegal activities.
     
  9. DC_DEEP

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    Oh, puh-leeze, don't tell me you believe that there's anything wrong with a few ex post facto laws ...
     
  10. HazelGod

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    Of course not...it had to be done to keep us safe from all them terr'ists! And it must be workin', right? There haven't been any more attacks here since he started disregarding those pesky separation of powers clauses! Undeniable proof!
     
  11. DC_DEEP

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    I'm just having such a difficult time tracking down the same edition of the US Constitution that the Bush administration and the Congress use. The copy that I have doesn't include the clause "unless the government chooses otherwise" in each article and amendment.
     
  12. ZOS23xy

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    Bush versus Clinton. Clinton got oral sex and dallied with a awe struck woman.

    He prefered to keep it private. In a way it was no one's business. Why and how it would up in the Whitewater investigation is due to manipulation.

    Bush started a war, and thousands of Americans have died, and more civillians and Iraqis have died.

    Bush wins, hands down.
     
  13. DC_DEEP

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    During an investigation which had nothing to do with his sex life, he gave a misleading answer to a question about what he did with another consenting adult. Under oath, yes, but nonetheless...

    That's really the only thing that Bush supporters and Clinton detractors (usually the same people, but not always) EVER bring up, and they usually only bring it up to excuse (?) illegal actions taken by the current administration, which are myriad.

    Why does anyone keep beating that dead (and irrelevant) horse?

    And if someone was on trial for rape, how silly would it look if his defense was "well, Billy Moriarty robbed a bank!"
     
  14. Bbucko

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    It will take an international judiciary, like The Haag, to bring justice relative to the acts of the current administration.

    But don't hold your breath.
     
  15. jason_els

    jason_els <img border="0" src="/images/badges/gold_member.gi

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    You're a smart guy so I trust you're not reading what I'm not saying. First, I drew the parallel because I find Clinton's lack of prosecution a precedent for the non-prosecution of Bush. Second, I'm not hijacking the thread, I'm answering an accusation based upon a mistaken assumption on your part. Third, I did not say, "the previous president did something wrong, so we shouldn't say anything when the current president does something wrong." That, "shouldn't," is a whole different word, implying a belief of moral imperative which I do not possess. My argument is structured entirely on the belief that Clinton's non-prosecution opened the doors for Bush's non-prosecution for even greater crimes. I think that the lack of dedicated prosecution and appropriate punishment in both cases was, is, and will be, an immense betrayal of America's rule of law and in that I blame both sides of the aisle and, ultimately, the American people.

    Last, I do not care if others find my political opinions unpopular but if they do so, I would at least like others to know what they really are, not what they are supposed to be.

    You do realize that every time you say Clinton's perjury is, "...beating a dead horse," that it is precisely the argument which will be used against you by Bush supporters once he's left office? They will point out that if that reason is good enough to excuse Clinton then it's good enough to excuse Bush. People have been put in prison for committing perjury about their sex lives in civil cases so it's impossible to argue that Clinton was not treated with special consideration. Just watch, you will see the conservatives spouting the same apologetics the liberals did for Clinton and when that happens, the moral force of prosecuting Bush (and Cheney) will collapse.


     
  16. SpeedoGuy

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    Because, even in the words of many conservatives, conservatives have little else to run on.
     
  17. DC_DEEP

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    Yes, I am reading what you are saying...
    I asked you what lack of prosecution, but you didn't answer me. If you are talking about the Lewinsky scandal, YES, HE WAS PROSECUTED. DO YOU NOT REMEMBER THAT HE WAS IMPEACHED? That's about as prosecutorial as you can get with a sitting president. If you weren't talking about the Lewinsky scandal, then what are you saying he should have been prosecuted for, that he was not?
    Which mistaken assumption is that? Specifically?
    Perhaps they will, but my point is, Clinton WAS prosecuted. You have got to understand that he WAS impeached, and impeachment IS prosecution. So it ends up being

    "Bush has suspended habeas corpus, has no authority to do so, and it's against US and international law."

    "Yeah, but Clinton lied about his blowjob."

    "Bush has lied to the American public about why the US Attorneys were fired, lied about why those records were 'destroyed,' and lied about the extent of the illegal wiretapping he authorized."

    "Yeah, but Clinton lied about his blowjob."

    "Bush has authorized illegal, indefinite incarceration of US citizens without charges or access to cousel."

    "Yeah, but Clinton lied about his blowjob."

    "Bush has abused the executive privelege by refusing to turn over White House records, which are public property."

    "Yeah, but Clinton lied about his blowjob."

    "Bush has decided to illegally divert funds from the National Archives to the Department of Justice."

    "Yeah, but Clinton lied about his blowjob."

    The point is, Bush has performed, or directed his staff to perform, many, many, illegal acts, and has yet to be prosecuted for any of them. Clinton lied under oath, and was prosecuted for it. Besides that one thing, what else did Clinton do that he should have been prosecuted for, but was not? (The legality of Ken Starr even asking him about his sex life in the first place, is suspect.)

    Tell ya what, I'll post a list of Bush's impeachable crimes, you post a list of Clinton's impeachable crimes. Whoever has the longer list wins.
     
  18. NCbear

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    Just for the record, my money's on DC re: this one.

    NCbear (who wishes like hell there were someone else--someone smarter, both in IQ and EQ--fulfilling the USA President's job right now)
     
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