Congressman Resigns: Sent Letters to 16 Yr Old

[DC_DEEP]

For a group that throws such pitched fits about how stupid fundies are for not recognizing how natural homosexuality is and marriage rights, etc., y'all sure are a judgemental bunch.​

uh, yeah, right.

In quite a few other cultures and eras relationships between adolescents and adults are/were quite common and actually considered healthy.

And that is all just fine and dandy... if you live in one of those cultures. In our culture, sexual relations should be between persons capable of making informed consent choices.

Y'all sound just like Rev. What'shisfuck in your shrill self-righteous denouncements. You just draw your lines to the left of his. He thinks two 50 year old men is disgusting. You think a 50 year old man and a sixteen year old man is disgusting.

Well, especially when most of the pages contacted say his advances made them uncomfortable. There is a big difference between adult consensual behavior, and predatory behavior.

Furthermore, I think this whole deal may wind up backfiring and blowing up in the democrats' face. If it turns out that democratic interests were privy to the situation and timed its public release for political reasons it could get ugly.

You always want to make these types of arguments a partisan, Repub vs. Dem scenario. If any democrats were privy to that information, then they should be as culpable as Hastert, the lying slime who tried to cover up his foreknowledge. Regardless of party affiliation, any person on The Hill who had knowledge of the situation (and not just with Foley, I mean ANY knowledge of any misconduct with the pages) should be immediately dismissed from the Congress. For the record, I am fond of neither the democrat nor the republican party. I think there is way too much corruption in both parties.​

 

[B_Stronzo]

For a group that throws such pitched fits about how stupid fundies are for not recognizing how natural homosexuality is and marriage rights, etc., y'all sure are a judgemental bunch.

In quite a few other cultures and eras relationships between adolescents and adults are/were quite common and actually considered healthy. Y'all sound just like Rev. What'shisfuck in your shrill self-righteous denouncements.
​

Shelby don't be a dink once in a while okay?

 

[mindseye]

First sign of the Apocalypse: I'm agreeing with Stronzo on something.

Shelby's brought up a wholly transparent strawman argument: Yes, I believe that consensual sex between two adult men is okay, and that sexual predation against a minor who is also your employee is sooooooo not okay. Shelby calls that judgemental.

But I am open about my relationships -- I'm politically active in trying to change existing laws, and in trying to prevent passage of even worse laws. Shelby may oppose me, but he can't deny my sincerity.

Foley publicly spoke out against the very acts he was committing. He voted to pass a law that he was simultaneously breaking! He knew what he was doing was wrong and chose to cover up his actions (and possibly enlisted the help of Boehner and Hastert to do so).

Shelby's attempt to compare Foley's sexual activities to my own is shameful.

 

[Lex]

I fully reserve the right to judge people who break laws everyone agrees are good ones.

 

[fortiesfun]

Furthermore, I think this whole deal may wind up backfiring and blowing up in the democrats' face. If it turns out that democratic interests were privy to the situation and timed its public release for political reasons it could get ugly.
​

This particular piece of spin is now an official talking point of the House Republican caucus, but to date no one has shown any connection to the Democrats whatsoever. ABC news released this story, and though the information has been available since a private group asked for an FBI investigation last summer, there is not one iota of evidence that any Democratic member of the House knew or was contacted about it.

It is cynical at best to suggest that all October surprises are the result of party politics.

 

[D_Herin_Ghan]

I don't think this kid is that much of a victim to be honest. It's not like he's soliciting a 12 year old, this kid is 16 and is obviously enjoying the attention if he is reciprocating cyber sex. The kid is gay, Foley is gay, I dunno it doesn't really seem like a pedophilia case to me at all. I was working my damned hardest to get pussy at the age of 16, and I guess this kid was doing the same, except for men.

I thought harassment was unprovoked, unwanted attention or sexual advances. That doesn't seem to be the case here. I'm not trying to be an apologist for Foley here, because the things he did to the other pages were CERTAINLY worth of harassment charges.

However, the transcripts I posted earlier in the thread is clearly a case of two gay individuals having cyber sex. Now an elected official missing a vote so he can rub one out to a teenagers typing...thats another issue altogether.

 

[fortiesfun]

I don't think this kid is that much of a victim to be honest. It's not like he's soliciting a 12 year old, this kid is 16 and is obviously enjoying the attention if he is reciprocating cyber sex. The kid is gay, Foley is gay, I dunno it doesn't really seem like a pedophilia case to me at all. I was working my damned hardest to get pussy at the age of 16, and I guess this kid was doing the same, except for men.

This is the sort of things that must look a lot different to a 19 year old like you Lion than it does to an old man like me. The idea that the 16 year old is mature enough to have perspective on what he is doing is a bit hard for me to accept. He may well be a gay kid finding some guidance where he can, but is he really expected to figure out that the congressman is using really poor judgment? Adults in congress are supposed to be smart. Pages are supposed to learn from them. Pages are not supposed to be the ones supplying restraint and thoughtful analysis of whether they are acting appropriately.

 

[B_Lightkeeper]

I hear now that the page was 17 - not 16. And would it have made much difference in public outcry if it had been a girl Foley was contacting?

 

[joyboytoy79]

I hear now that the page was 17 - not 16. And would it have made much difference in public outcry if it had been a girl Foley was contacting?

I suspect if it was a girl it would have been considered almost normal. Does anyone remember seeing Bob Dole spring wood while watching a 16 year old Brittney Spears gyrate on TV?

 

[fortiesfun]

I suspect if it was a girl it would have been considered almost normal. Does anyone remember seeing Bob Dole spring wood while watching a 16 year old Brittney Spears gyrate on TV?

ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Now I have to go wash my brain for about an hour to try to erase that image...

 

[Ethyl]

I suspect if it was a girl it would have been considered almost normal. Does anyone remember seeing Bob Dole spring wood while watching a 16 year old Brittney Spears gyrate on TV?

Damn, you must be psychic. I was just thinking about that....

 

[joyboytoy79]

ARRRRGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. Now I have to go wash my brain for about an hour to try to erase that image...

I know. I know. It's a disturbing image. Shock value, ya know? :biggrin1:

 

[Jeffin90620]

And he was the chairman of a committe to protect children form internet predators! The sheer brazen hypocricyof some of these "family values" republicans never ceases to amaze me.

Nice try, but all he has been accused of is sending inappropriate e-mails to underage boys, which is enough to get rid of him, but wait...

Democrat Gerry Studds actually had sex with a 17 year old boy, refused to resign, criticized his critics and Democrats re-elected him for another 12 years until he retired.

So don't even try to claim any moral superiority here; any outrage Democrats are feigning is a naked power grab for a formerly-safe Congressional seat.

 

[madame_zora]

I suspect if it was a girl it would have been considered almost normal. Does anyone remember seeing Bob Dole spring wood while watching a 16 year old Brittney Spears gyrate on TV?

On the other hand, she WAS dressed like a 25 year old hooker at the time...

Yes, I have no doubt that this is a bigger story because it was a young man instead of a woman, but the MAIN story to most of us is the abuse of power.
Being under 18 adds to the ick factor even if it is technically legal, and these interns apparently had to be WARNED about Foley, which means his proclivities for the young were widely known. This is just digusting on so many levels.

Try to get the picture for them, the interns. Here they are getting the opportunity of a lifetime to learn about Washington and how things work in the real world, and one of the first things they are presented with is an old lecher with a broad smile. If they want to be "successful", they probably get the picture pretty quickly that it's not who you know, but who you blow. Get it now, Shelby? Are you really suggesting that who did what after the fact negates in ANY way Foley's behavior?

Sometimes you people wonder why some of us jump quickly to the "fuck off and die" response. Now you know. Oh, all the evidence thus far shows that dems were kept completely in the dark about Foley's behavior lest he become a political "point of contention". It's ten pounds of bullshit in a five pound sack to NOW claim that they were holding onto their knowledge for a certain date's release. Blame ABC news for the date fuckers.

 

[Jeffin90620]

No, but you're straight. Anyone who's openly gay and a Republican has a serious conflict of interest to reconcile. (We don't see black Klansmen or Jewish Nazis -- why are there so many Log Cabin Republicans?!) I wonder if Foley was just in serious denial about his fantasies and/or the political realities -- and that's how he could resolve his conflict of interest.

From what I have been reading, Foley's homosexuality was an open secret for years. It was not a problem for the Republicans he worked with, although almost no one knew of his pederasty.

However, it was a problem for Democrats when he considered running for the Senate a few years back and they threatened to "out" him if he ran (he decided to stay in the House). So much for the party of tolerance and inclusion.

Why are there so many Log Cabin Republicans? Basically, because they can be. If you want to see real intolerance, look at how the Democrats treated Senator Joseph Lieberman, who lost his own primary against an anti-war activist (several people he counted as friends abandoned him). He will have to run as an Independent in the upcoming election. Democrats do not tolerate those who step too far off the reservation, even if he is a former Presidential running mate.

 

[joyboytoy79]

On the other hand, she WAS dressed like a 25 year old hooker at the time...

Yes, I have no doubt that this is a bigger story because it was a young man instead of a woman, but the MAIN story to most of us is the abuse of power.
Being under 18 adds to the ick factor even if it is technically legal, and these interns apparently had to be WARNED about Foley, which means his proclivities for the young were widely known. This is just digusting on so many levels.

...

Mme Z,

I agree with you completely. I think though, that the spin factor is also a huge issue. If, indeed, this had been a girl not only would it be a smaller story, but the girl herself would have been vilified. Yes, there have been a few rumbles about the boy seeking the attentions of Mr. Foley, but they've been rather subdued.

The sad thing is, if a Congressman solicits the affections of a male, he is accused of being amoral, pedophiliac, etc. If, on the other hand, he solicits the attentions of a female, it is automatically assumed that the female was some sort of over-sexed vixen. The whole thing just enrages me.

 

[Lex]

Nice try, but all he has been accused of is sending inappropriate e-mails to underage boys, which is enough to get rid of him, but wait...

Democrat Gerry Studds actually had sex with a 17 year old boy, refused to resign, criticized his critics and Democrats re-elected him for another 12 years until he retired.

So don't even try to claim any moral superiority here; any outrage Democrats are feigning is a naked power grab for a formerly-safe Congressional seat.

Let's not make predatory behavior a partisan issue. Wrong is wrong, no matter WHO is doing it.

Your argument amounts to--"I know you are but what am I?"

 

[mindseye]

First of all, a comment to a reasonable point:

I don't think this kid is that much of a victim to be honest. It's not like he's soliciting a 12 year old, this kid is 16 and is obviously enjoying the attention if he is reciprocating cyber sex.

I disagree that he's "obviously enjoying" the attention. He may feel like he has no choice: that if he wants a career in politics, he can't rock the boat too much, because he'll need a good recommendation from Foley later on. He may be feigning enjoyment in order to keep his job.

Now, a comment to some completely unreasonable points:

Welcome to Reality Check! Leave your delusions at the door, sit your ass on down, open up for a big slice of truth with a siiiide of wisdom! Three, two, one:

Jeffin90620: You mentioned Gerry Studds (D-Mass), but not Dan Crane (R-Ill). Both representatives were charged on the same day of sex with 17-year-old pages; both immediately admitted guilt; and were censured by both parties (420-3 for Studds, 421-3 for Crane); both ran for re-election that same year. (source) Is it your bitterness that Studds won and Crane didn't that led you to mention one but not the other? Or, are you simply a hypocrite?

Then, you raise the completely irrelevant point of Joe Lieberman -- straight from Bill O'Reilly's talking points. You say, "look at how the Democrats treated Senator Joseph Lieberman." I'm looking: He was elected to the Connecticut Senate five times, as Connecticut Attorney General twice, and to the United States Senate three times. And then he lost a primary. Are you suggesting that Democrats have an obligation to return incumbents to office for life? Lieberman's had an extraordinary and long political career as a Democrat that came to an end by a majority vote. If you can find a valid reason why Joe Lieberman even belongs in this thread, I'll eat my hat, but you're grasping at 'fair and balanced' [sic] straws and failing miserably.

This has been Reality Check, and we are through!

 

[B_Stronzo]

This is the sort of things that must look a lot different to a 19 year old like you Lion than it does to an old man like me. The idea that the 16 year old is mature enough to have perspective on what he is doing is a bit hard for me to accept. He may well be a gay kid finding some guidance where he can, but is he really expected to figure out that the congressman is using really poor judgment? Adults in congress are supposed to be smart. Pages are supposed to learn from them. Pages are not supposed to be the ones supplying restraint and thoughtful analysis of whether they are acting appropriately.

ff?

I think what Lion says makes some good sense. It's no different from what he was doing as a heterosexual... trying to get "get some". What's key in this thing is Foley's degeneration into this "blame game". He's given fodder to the hate mill (hence my posting of that article from Tom Paine) of Tony Perkinses and those who're dying to equate homosexuality and pedophilia.

The article even gives it it's proper term: ephebophile

I really don't have a problem with anyone wanting to suck "of age" cock. It's just that we cannot hold these bastards to any standard any different than we hold the general populace.

Bush is a prime example of "lowered expectations" as is Clinton in his way.

So fucking what? The guy likes younger dick. The fellow in question was gay too from what I've read. That's not where the problem lies.

Many older straight dudes like young pussy I'll warrant.. Go for it if you can get it I say.

But there's no way Foley had any fucking right to take us (fagus Americanus) down with him.. and that's the issue I take with him. In an attempt to avert attention from predictable Republican lying and double standard he diverts this thing by yelling "sexual abuse" and "priest abuse" and "alcoholism".

Fuck him and fuck all those like him.

 

[coopturn]

Alright... for all the "family values republicans" out there:

How do you reconcile the vilification Clinton received from the Republicans for his affair, with the apparent attempt by the Republican party hierarchy to cover up Foley's flirtations with a teenager?

The difference is that Congressman Foley resigned. He did not lie or try to justify his disgusting behavior. Clinton lied about the Lewinski incident at first and then, when the proof of his indiscretion was overwhelming, he tried to justify it.