Congresswoman Shot at Constituent Event

[maxcok]

I can't believe people are using this tragic event as an opportunity to score a few cheap points against the Tea Party.

"Cheap points" against the Teabaggers? Now that would be ironic, being as "cheap points" are their rhetorical stock and trade. Cheap "shots" might be more appropriate though.

VB is right, we should withhold going overboard about the motives until we know more. Regardless, the rhetoric of the Teabaggers and Palinites is appalling and incendiary, and it's hard to imagine it doesn't feed this kind of violence. I'll be very surprised if this turns out to be a 'spurned lover', for example. VB is also right about smelling rats.

I'm frankly disgusting.

Fixed it fer ya. :wink:

BTW, are you really British? I wonder if anyone's checked your IP address. I smell a rat..

 

[JTalbain]

I can't believe people are using this tragic event as an opportunity to score a few cheap points against the Tea Party.

I'm frankly disgusted.

Let's see, Tea Party members advocate killing politicians to take back the country from the Democratic process, Sarah Palin puts a crosshairs on the woman, and someone shoots her. No link there at all.

Geez, back in the election they were having people show up at town hall meetings with their guns. What the hell did they think this was going to lead to? True only a few people in the Tea Party said/did anything directly advocating political assassination, but the Tea Party didn't exactly denounce their words or actions. Expecting that such things would be completely consequence free is about as stupid and irresponsible as you can get. All you need to do is look at the polls where over 20% of Americans believe Obama may be the Antichrist (courtesy of a "news" story but World Net Daily) to realize that many people can't tell the difference between a literal message and hyperbole for political gain.

 

[flame boy]

A senseless act of shocking violence, my thoughts go out to the families of the people whom this has a direct impact upon. With any "Breaking" news stories its very difficult to summarise what has happened when information is still so sparse.

 

[FRE]

Although it certainly seems that right-wing rhetoric is partly responsible for the shootings, it would be prudent to await an investigation before coming to definite conclusions. Otherwise there is a (slight) chance that we could be embarrassed for jumping to premature conclusions.

Assuming that right-wing and Palinesque rhetoric is responsible, it would not be the first time here in the U.S. that rhetoric has resulted in violence. In 1977, Anita Bryant, a singer who advertised Florida oranges, carried out a rhetoric campaign against gay men and women; her campaign included all sorts of false heinous accusations against gay men and women. Violence and mayhem followed in her wake, for which she denied all responsibility. However, the evidence was inescapably clear that it was she who precipitated the violence, vandalism, and murders. So, it should come as no surprise if it turns out (as it probably will), that right-wing and Palinesque rhetoric are responsible for the shootings. Probably we've not seen the end of it either.

 

[maxcok]

Here's the shooter's You Tube page. Check out his "literary vids"...probably Defendant Exhibit A at his first degree murder trial. He'll play crazy. (Get a view now because I don't think this page will be up much longer.)

YouTube - Classitup10's Channel

Presuming that is the shooter's page, he says,

"I'm able to control every belief and religion by being the mind controller!"

So why does he need a Glock 9mm?

 

[deleted15807]

....if the teabaggers have no culpability here, then why are they all taking down anti-Giffords rhetoric from their websites after she got shot?

The first thing you do is wipe away all the fingerprints. Get some bleach and the rubber gloves. One of the foot soldiers in the battle took the message a little too literally or was it exactly what they wanted.

 

[D_Sir Fitzwilly Wankheimer III]

Although it certainly seems that right-wing rhetoric is partly responsible for the shootings, it would be prudent to await an investigation before coming to definite conclusions. Otherwise there is a (slight) chance that we could be embarrassed for jumping to premature conclusions.

Assuming that right-wing and Palinesque rhetoric is responsible, it would not be the first time here in the U.S. that rhetoric has resulted in violence. In 1977, Anita Bryant, a singer who advertised Florida oranges, carried out a rhetoric campaign against gay men and women; her campaign included all sorts of false heinous accusations against gay men and women. Violence and mayhem followed in her wake, for which she denied all responsibility. However, the evidence was inescapably clear that it was she who precipitated the violence, vandalism, and murders. So, it should come as no surprise if it turns out (as it probably will), that right-wing and Palinesque rhetoric are responsible for the shootings. Probably we've not seen the end of it either.

hardly a right wing target shes for increased border patrol, goes against Obama and voted to boot Pelosi out.

 

[B_VinylBoy]

Quick question for the apologists, if the teabaggers have no culpability here, then why are they all taking down anti-Giffords rhetoric from their websites after she got shot?

We have the Way Back Machine to verify it all, so all of the sanitizing that is going on won't do any good.

 

[D_Harvey Schmeckel]

Judge John Roll and his family received hundreds of threatening phone calls after rightwing radio hosts targeted him. This is no random bystander but a targeted victim of political assassination. Eyewitnesses mention the shooter shouted the names of his victims.

 

[The Dragon]

"Cheap points" against the Teabaggers? Now that would be ironic, being as "cheap points" are their rhetorical stock and trade. Cheap "shots" might be more appropriate though.

VB is right, we should withhold going overboard about the motives until we know more. Regardless, the rhetoric of the Teabaggers and Palinites is appalling and incendiary, and it's hard to imagine it doesn't feed this kind of violence. I'll be very surprised if this turns out to be a 'spurned lover', for example. VB is also right about smelling rats.

Fixed it fer ya. :wink:

BTW, are you really British? I wonder if anyone's checked your IP address. I smell a rat..

Sounds a lil like a Star Infestor to me. :wink:

 

[FRE]

hardly a right wing target shes for increased border patrol, goes against Obama and voted to boot Pelosi out.

But you are assuming that people think logically. She opposed some of the more stringent actions against immigrants and she supported the health care system. Moreover, she is a Democrat. So, even though she is somewhat middle of the road, she was still targeted by the right.

 

[maxcok]

More from the alleged shooter's alleged page:

Terrorist

If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

I define terrorist.

Thus, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

If you call me a terrorist, then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
You call me a terrorist.
Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.

​

The only conclusion I've reached so far is he's either a nut case, or laying the groundwork for being a nutcase.

 

[JTalbain]

hardly a right wing target shes for increased border patrol, goes against Obama and voted to boot Pelosi out.

And yet she had a crosshairs over her on sarah Palin's map. I'm not saying that Sarah wanted her to actually be killed, but it's ridiculous for her to think her actions couldn't have contributed (which she clearly doesn't, considering the picture has already been removed from her site).

The first thing you do is wipe away all the fingerprints. Get some bleach and the rubber gloves. One of the foot soldiers in the battle took the message a little too literally or was it exactly what they wanted.

No, they didn't actually want this. Messages of fear can be used to control the public, but people don't like seeing incidents that remind them of what that fear actually leads to. They're already retracting their message, but the damage is done. Over the coming weeks, the backlash from this event will probably undermine the Tea Party influence so severely they'll have a hard time ever getting a candidate elected again. I also expect this to be leveraged to mobilize Democrat voters in 2012. Hopefully this will be the only incident. I imagine that the other people that were on Sarah Palin's "hit list" have already gone into hiding or protective custody.

 

[Speculator]

From someone who takes every opportunity they can to take cheap shots against those on the left, the fact that you're willing to stand here and assume the role of "supreme hypocrite" surprises nobody. Many people, regardless of political affiliation, warned those about using questionable, hate related speech to express a point. The constant references to "reloading" and guns always eventually leads to someone getting shot. The same exact thing happens in poor, urban areas all the time. Trust me, growing up in one for the majority of my life I'm an expert at this and you can't tell me otherwise.

Sarah Palin and many other politicians need to be held accountable for spreading the message of hate. It's not because she's a Republican, Teabagger or whatever... it's because their greedy, power hungry idiots that will play with fire just enough for someone else to misinterpret the message and deadly take action. Hell... this is on her Twitter right now - Commonsense Conservatives & lovers of America: "Don't Retreat, Instead - RELOAD!" Pls see my Facebook page.

Seriously, fuck that bitch.

If this guy was so unstable that a twitter comment and a map on Sarah Palin's website was enough to tip him over the edge and commit attempted mass murder then almost anything could have been the "trigger". I don't think it would stand up in court.

You're mixing up cause and effect, the Tea Party aren't causing people to go out and do horrible things in the name of politics, they're the natural result of a country that for years has walked all over it's citizens. Perhaps this guy felt the same way, perhaps not, but immediately linking him to the Tea Party when it's pretty clear posters don't even know whether Giffords is dead or not is deeply ignorant and insensitive. The facts aren't clear yet, so please refrain from making hurtful accuations.

 

[JTalbain]

If this guy was so unstable that a twitter comment and a map on Sarah Palin's website was enough to tip him over the edge and commit attempted mass murder then almost anything could have been the "trigger". I don't think it would stand up in court.

You're mixing up cause and effect, the Tea Party aren't causing people to go out and do horrible things in the name of politics, they're the natural result of a country that for years has walked all over it's citizens. Perhaps this guy felt the same way, perhaps not, but immediately linking him to the Tea Party when it's pretty clear posters don't even know whether Giffords is dead or not is deeply ignorant and insensitive. The facts aren't clear yet, so please refrain from making hurtful accuations.

People were warning against the rhetoric of the Tea Party back when all it was causing was people to bring their guns to town hall meetings. Politics is a heated subject, tempers flare, and you have one side encouraging their followers to arm themselves for political reasons. This was identified as a recipe for tragedy during the 2008 and 2010 election seasons. Don't expect people to back off from that stance now that it has actually happened.

 

[Industrialsize]

This slideshow brought tears to mt eyes. I mourn for my country.

Dem Rep. Gabrielle Giffords Shot In Arizona | TPM Photo Galleries

 

[FRE]

If this guy was so unstable that a twitter comment and a map on Sarah Palin's website was enough to tip him over the edge and commit attempted mass murder then almost anything could have been the "trigger". I don't think it would stand up in court.

You're mixing up cause and effect, the Tea Party aren't causing people to go out and do horrible things in the name of politics, they're the natural result of a country that for years has walked all over it's citizens. Perhaps this guy felt the same way, perhaps not, but immediately linking him to the Tea Party when it's pretty clear posters don't even know whether Giffords is dead or not is deeply ignorant and insensitive. The facts aren't clear yet, so please refrain from making hurtful accuations.

See a previous post of mine in which I detailed what happened in 1977 when Anita Bryant went on her canard and aspersion spewing anti-gay campaign. It has been well established that hate-filled rhetoric does lead to violence despite the rhetoric-spewers claims to the contrary. People familiar with civil rights history are well aware of that.

I'm not saying that rhetoric was definitely the cause, but it is a probable cause. Even if it is determined that rhetoric was definitely the cause, it is unclear what the legal implications might be.

 

[Speculator]

People were warning against the rhetoric of the Tea Party back when all it was causing was people to bring their guns to town hall meetings. Politics is a heated subject, tempers flare, and you have one side encouraging their followers to arm themselves for political reasons. This was identified as a recipe for tragedy during the 2008 and 2010 election seasons. Don't expect people to back off from that stance now that it has actually happened.

You're making it sound like gang warfare.

The U.S has a long and proud history of defending gun ownership, please don't try and blame the Tea Party - who have been around for about 2 years now- for your constitutional right to bear arms.

 

[Bbucko]

Sounds a lil like a Star Infestor to me. :wink:

I think some of us might be on a wild goose chase: jus' sayin' :wink:

 

[maxcok]

Jared Loughner's youtube video: YouTube - America: Your Last Memory In A Terrorist Country!