Congresswoman Shot at Constituent Event

[maxcok]

You're making it sound like gang warfare.

I'd say it's the Teabaggers who have been inciting gang warfare.

The U.S has a long and proud history of defending gun ownership, please don't try and blame the Tea Party - who have been around for about 2 years now- for your constitutional right to bear arms.

Typical spin and deflection from the strawman.
.

 

[MichiganRico]

More from the alleged shooter's alleged page:

Terrorist

If I define terrorist then a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

I define terrorist.

Thus, a terrorist is a person who employs terror or terrorism, especially as a political weapon.

If you call me a terrorist, then the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.
You call me a terrorist.
Thus, the argument to call me a terrorist is Ad hominem.

​

The only conclusion I've reached so far is he's either a nut case, or laying the groundwork for being a nutcase.

Here's a part of Loughner's MySpace page--now taken down, but reprinted by the Huffington Post. Check out his favorite books. It largely explains the manner in which he framed his "argument."


Schools:I attended school: Thornydale elementary,Tortolita Middle School, Mountain View Highschool, Northwest Aztec Middle College, and Pima Community College.
Interests:My favorite interest was reading, and I studied grammar.Conscience dreams were a great study in college!
Movies*My idiom: I could coin the moment!*)
Musicass me the strings!
Books:I had favorite books: Animal Farm, Brave New World, The WizardOf OZ, Aesop Fables, The Odyssey, Alice Adventures Into Wonderland,Fahrenheit 451, Peter Pan, To Kill A Mockingbird, We The Living,Phantom Toll Booth, One Flew Over The Cuckoo's Nest, Pulp,Through TheLooking Glass, The Communist Manifesto, Siddhartha, The Old Man AndThe Sea, Gulliver's Travels, Mein Kampf, The Republic, and Meno.

 

[b.c.]

I'd say it's the Teabaggers who have been inciting gang warfare.

Typical spin and deflection from the strawman.
.

Exactly. This guy is a right winged loon whose actions were inspired by a whole bunch of other right winged loons from the party that DELIBERATELY courts and plays upon hate based fear mongering rhetoric.

Fuck them and all of their apologists.

 

[The Dragon]

This what the Australian News is reporting...

http://au.news.yahoo.com/queensland/a/- ... -shooting/

"She's in critical condition," Dr. Peter Rhee told a news conference at the hospital where Giffords had surgery. "The neurosurgeons have finished operating on her and I can tell you that in the current time period I am very optimistic about recovery... she was following commands.

Nine other shooting victims were being treated for wounds at the hospital, Rhee told a news conference at Tucson's University Medical Center.

Rhee described Giffords' wound as "through-and-through ... It went through her brain."

 

[maxcok]

Here's a part of Loughner's MySpace page--now taken down, but reprinted by the Huffington Post. Check out his favorite books. It largely explains the manner in which he framed his "argument."

Well tbh, there are a few books there that could easily end up on my favorites list too.

I not saying which, but notably not 'Mein Kampf'. :wink:

 

[ryan25yo]

She and 6 others are dead.

Great job, Governor Brewer!

What the HELL does the Governor have to do with this tragedy?? This is the act of a mental case. Period. May God be good to all of the wounded and dead!

 

[B_Hung Jon]

What the HELL does the Governor have to do with this tragedy?? This is the act of a mental case. Period. May God be good to all of the wounded and dead!

The atmosphere of Arizona politics has everything to do with the shooting of the Congresswoman, including the reactionary policies of the Governor. As long as right-wing pro-gun tea party types (traditional fascists) are allowed to use violent language and images against their opponents, there will continue to be these crazy reactions. All right-wing organizations including the NRA should be investigated by the FBI.

 

[D_Harvey Schmeckel]

This is the act of a mental case. Period.

Why put a period there, rather than a comma? A mental case, inspired to kill a judge whose life had been repeatedly threatened after being targeted by rightwing talk radio. A judge whose family had required government protection. A mental case, who attempted to assassinate a congress member who had been placed "in the cross hairs" by Sarah Palin.

"Nut" does not erase "rightwing"-- and we don't know if this paranoid schizophrenic might have had collaborators who were more right wing and less nutty in a clinical sense. Rumors of another arrest are floating around-- which make the lone nut theory a bit less plausible.

But even if he is a lone nut, he did not choose his victims randomly.

 

[houtx48]

The nuts in AZ. are reaping what they have sown? Has anyone heard from the head Filbert, McCain.

 

[midlifebear]

Oh, The McCain? He's come out in high dudgeon against the shootings, using the tragedy as a moment to "shine" as a no-fleas-on-me politician. His sound bite of being aghast makes him come across as more red/white/and blue than the victims.

 

[maxcok]

4/16/10 PHOENIX — Favoring the constitutional right to bear arms over others' concerns about gun safety, Gov. Jan Brewer on Friday signed into law a bill making Arizona the third state allowing people to carry a concealed weapon without requiring a permit. The measure takes effect 90 days after the current legislative session ends, which likely puts the effective date in July or August.

By eliminating the permit requirement, the Arizona legislation will allow people 21 or older to forego background checks and classes that are now required. Supporters say the bill promotes constitutional rights and allows people to protect themselves from criminals, while critics worry it will lead to more shootings as people with less training have fewer restrictions on carrying weapons.

"I believe this legislation not only protects the Second Amendment rights of Arizona citizens, but restores those rights as well," Brewer, a Republican, said in a statement.

Arizona Gun Law: Concealed Weapons Allowed Without Permit ​

 

[The Dragon]

Bloody Hell, Max!

After reading that all I can say is that I feel nothing but fear and a deep pity for sensible level headed Americans.
You all are in for a very turbulent time.
Good luck!
You're going to need it.

 

[MichiganRico]

The nuts in AZ. are reaping what they have sown? Has anyone heard from the head Filbert, McCain.

Oh, The McCain? He's come out in high dudgeon against the shootings, using the tragedy as a moment to "shine" as a no-fleas-on-me politician. His sound bite of being aghast makes him come across as more red/white/and blue than the victims.

John McCain's statement ....

“I am horrified by the violent attack on Representative Gabrielle Giffords and many other innocent people by a wicked person who has no sense of justice or compassion. I pray for Gabby and the other victims, and for the repose of the souls of the dead and comfort for their families. I beg our loving Creator to spare the lives of those who are still alive, heal them in body and spirit, and return them to their loved ones.
“Whoever did this; whatever their reason, they are a disgrace to Arizona, this country and the human race, and they deserve and will receive the contempt of all decent people and the strongest punishment of the law.”

​

 

[LookingCurious]

I found this quote by Pima County Sheriff Clarence Dupnik on CNN:

"There's reason to believe this individual has a mental issue and I think that people who are unbalanced are especially susceptible to vitriol," he said.


"Vitriol" in public debate was a recurring theme in Dupnik's remarks as he blasted the media for "the vitriolic rhetoric" heard on television and radio.


"This has not become the nice United States of America that most of us grew up in and I think its time we do the soul-searching," he said.
"The anger, the hatred the bigotry that goes on in this country is getting to be outrageous and unfortunately, Arizona has become the capitol. We have become the mecca of prejudice and bigotry."

 

[FRE]

Bloody Hell, Max!

After reading that all I can say is that I feel nothing but fear and a deep pity for sensible level headed Americans.
You all are in for a very turbulent time.
Good luck!
You're going to need it.

We've faced problems before. Eventually people recognize problems and they are solved, although "turbulent times" can continue for a while before people finally awaken and do something that makes sense.

 

[helgaleena]

Shot Congresswoman Was In Sarah Palin's 'Crosshairs'

Nuff said. :sad:

 

[maxcok]

Bloody Hell, Max!

After reading that all I can say is that I feel nothing but fear and a deep pity for sensible level headed Americans.
You all are in for a very turbulent time.
Good luck!
You're going to need it.

Well, it's been pretty turbulent for awhile now. I think many "sensible level headed Americans" feel increasingly like we're living in a nightmare, that dangerous lunatics dominate the political discourse and more and more are running the government asylum. If anything good can come out of this violent tragedy, it will be to discredit and shine a spotlight on the inflammatory demagoguery coming from right-wing Repbulicans and Teabaggers AND hopefully also focus attention on the systematic elimination of gun ownership restrictions that has been quietly taking place across the country.

When Obama was elected gun owners were whipped into a frenzy by the National Rifle Association, who told them "Obama is going to take your guns away". Gun and ammo sales skyrocketed, and the gun dealers and the NRA made out like bandits. Of course Obama and the Congress have not even addressed gun laws. Meanwhile, the NRA has reduced its controversial high profile on the national stage, and shifted its focus to promoting candidates for state offices and influencing state legislatures, particularly in the South and the West. It's been very successful at relaxing or repealing gun laws all across the country largely under the radar.

The following is excerpted from a post I made in March last year. It's based on data from back then, and some dating back more than a year. I haven't really kept up with what's happened since, but I can only assume the situation and the numbers have gotten much worse. Arizona's permitless conceal and carry law would be just one of many that passed after the articles I sourced were written. More info and links in the full post here:

A nationwide review by the Associated Press found that over the last two years, 24 states, mostly in the South and West, have passed 47 new laws loosening gun restrictions. Among other things, legislatures have allowed firearms to be carried in cars, made it illegal to ask job candidates whether they own a gun, and expanded agreements that make permits to carry handguns in one state valid in another.

NRA steps up efforts

The trend is attributed in large part to a push by the National Rifle Association. The NRA, which for years has blocked attempts in Washington to tighten firearms laws, has ramped up its efforts at the state level to chip away at gun restrictions.

“This is all a coordinated approach to respect that human, God-given right of self defense by law-abiding Americans,” said Chris Cox, the NRA’s chief lobbyist. “We’ll rest when all 50 states allow and respect the right of law-abiding people to defend themselves from criminal attack.”

The NRA boasts that almost all states grant handgun permits to people with clean criminal and psychological records. In 1987, only 10 states did. Only Wisconsin, Illinois and the District of Columbia now prohibit carrying concealed handguns entirely.

“The NRA has a stranglehold on a lot of state legislatures,” said Kristin Rand, legislative director of the Violence Policy Center, a gun control group in Washington. “They basically have convinced lawmakers they can cost them their seats, even though there’s no real evidence to back that up.”

HeraldNet: Tennessee puts face on trend of looser gun laws​

 

[SeeDickRun]

No need for anyone to run their mouths until the facts are out. Too many times we all wind up looking a little trigger happy with our uninformed opinions. (words purposely selected)

 

[simbasa12]

No need for anyone to run their mouths until the facts are out. Too many times we all wind up looking a little trigger happy with our uninformed opinions. (words purposely selected)

So much crap being spewed ...until your sane post. I think someone else in an earliier post mentioned it as well, but any half sane person reading these posts would have to think there are alot of nutjobs on both sides of the fence willing to jump to conclusions. Is one side really 'better' than the other when the behavior is the same? People, you need to look in the mirror and give yourselves a reality check.

You want to know what's sad? I knew what to expect, and from whom, when I saw this thread, and I got what I expected.

 

[B_talltpaguy]

^Nobody is jumping to conclusions. The guy is a rightwingnut, and everyone knows it, so stop trying to pretend it doesn't matter when it is in fact the central issue.

No need for anyone to run their mouths until the facts are out. Too many times we all wind up looking a little trigger happy with our uninformed opinions. (words purposely selected)

No, this was definitely a libertarian teabagger type who also happened to be a nutcase, he wasn't acting alone, and he targeted Giffords because of who she was (A dem who had just beaten a teabagger candidate)... Authorities themselves have confirmed all of this, it isn't media or internet rumors.