Conservative doublethink on the first amendment

Discussion in 'Politics' started by Calboner, Jul 17, 2011.

  1. Calboner

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    For at least a year now, some residents of Murfreesboro, Tennessee, have been trying to prevent the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro from constructing a new mosque. Now they have Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain on their side. What is curious about Cain's position is that he invokes the fact that "our Constitution guarantees the separation of church and state" (his words) in support of it. His reasoning? Well, you see, "Islam combines church and state," in contrast to "our other traditional religions where it's just about religious purposes." Because of this, he says, any community has a right to ban mosques. (Article and video here.)

    So his argument seems to be:

    1. Islam includes its own religious laws.
    2. Therefore, Islam violates the separation of church and state guaranteed by the first amendment to the US Constitution.
    3. Therefore, any community that wishes to prevent Muslims from constructing new religious buildings has the legal right to do so.

    Apart from the insane non-sequiturs in this reasoning, it is worth comparing Cain's dire warnings about the dangers of mixing religious institutions and state authority with his statements on abortion in a radio interview earlier this year (transcribed from video here, starting at 0:13):

    I believe that life begins at conception, period; and that means that I will have to see enough evidence that someone that I would appoint [to the US Supreme Court] shares that view. I believe that the current Supreme Court is leaning too much to the liberal side. [:lmao:] I am a Christian. I've been a Christian all my life. I've been a believer in the Bible ever since I was ten years old. I'm very active in my church. There is no way that I would compromise my religious belief about the sanctity of life.

    So, you see, it is in accordance with the US Constitution to prevent Muslims from building religious centers because THEIR religion combines religion and state. But when Republicans invoke their Christian beliefs as a basis for whom they would appoint to the Supreme Court, that is "just about religious purposes," so it's okay. :Eyecrazy:
     
  2. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    It's amazing just how far religious bigots will try to twist things to validate their own phobias & fears. And it doesn't surprise me one bit that the so-called presidential hopeful Herman Cain is involved with this. What a sad excuse for a human being.
     
  3. tml37128

    tml37128 New Member

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    Seperation of church and state would include people not judging gay marriage based on their religious beliefs, so that should be legal. Churches and religious buildings/groups do not pay taxes or get tax cuts, and they should.
    Let them build the mosque, coming from a resident of TN.
    I could give two shits less what they do as long as it doesn't affect me.
    Honestly, your personal beliefs should not interfere with other people trying to live their life -- as long as they are causing no harm, there is no problem.
    And upsetting someone's feelings is not causing harm.

    Sorry if I came off as rude or angry, but I just do not have tolerance
    for those that think that the only way to live is their way or no way.
     
  4. workandplay243

    workandplay243 New Member

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    I like what else he says later on in that interview. "get back to biblical principles'. Sounds like a smart man.
     
  5. Calboner

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    "Smart" because his conclusions agree with your beliefs or because the utter incoherence of his reasoning makes him seem like somebody you would get along with?
     
  6. parr

    parr New Member

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    I can remember those "pricipales" were important to the fabric of our
    society. Now, the are long gone.:frown1:
     
  7. Calboner

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    Is putting quotation marks around the words that you misspell one of your principles? Or is it just a "pricipale"?
     
  8. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    I think the bolded part answers that question definitively.
     
  9. StormfrontFL

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    So why wasn't Godfather's Pizza closed on the Sabbath? Cain seemed to disregard that rule in the Bible about working or doing business on that day.

    So for those who cheer "getting back to biblical principles" are you also willing to follow Christ's direction to do all you can to help those less fortunate?
     
  10. 1kmb1

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    like slavery?
     
  11. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    Even I wouldn't think Herman Cain, as thoroughly unqualified and socially backward as he is, would be that daft to suggest such a thing. :wink:
     
  12. workandplay243

    workandplay243 New Member

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    Yes, precisely. Time for a grassroots revival! Back to the Christian ethics, I don't think it would hurt much, get that old, forgotten doctrine back in this country.
     
  13. 1kmb1

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    lol ive had that same thought about quite a few republicans recently only to be surprised later when they are "he/she wouldnt be that stupid... oh wait, yeah he/she is...."

    perhaps mr. cain was referring to the biblical principle of female inferiority?

    1 Corinthians 11:8-9

    or killing witches...

    Exodus 22:18-20

    i just think this one is funny lol

    Deuteronomy 25:11-12

    now those are some good solid principles to model our society after :biggrin1:

    i think people should peruse (by which i mean actually peruse, and not peruse the way most people think peruse means) the bible before praising the principles. i refuse to believe that people are actually reading the bible and concluding that its anything but pure rubbish.
     
  14. houtx48

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    What makes a pizza delivery guy an expert on mosques?
     
  15. B_VinylBoy

    B_VinylBoy New Member

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    For some of the haters out there this season, as long as he talks smack about the President he could run a lemonade stand and they would consider him an "expert".
     
  16. parr

    parr New Member

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    Ok,Max.:biggrin1:
     
  17. DC_DEEP

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    I'm not sure I understand why you are under the impression that you have First Amendment rights, but I do not. Are you suggesting that, because you are a Christian, I am required to submit to your Christian doctrine, even though I am not of that faith?
     
  18. workandplay243

    workandplay243 New Member

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    Freedom of religion. Did I say you must submit? The country as a whole needs to not disregard the teachings in our schools.
     
  19. workandplay243

    workandplay243 New Member

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    I can't speak for 'Godfather's Pizza'.

    Within reason, we should help out, of course.
     
  20. workandplay243

    workandplay243 New Member

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    Common sense dictates that what occured in the past in the Bible and the severity of punishment was law at that time, and to simply say we need to bring back stonings, burnings, etc. is idiotic. There's a whole bunch of stuff like this in the old testament, it is a matter of history and it is what happened.
    The entire bible can be summed up in 2 commandments. Maybe you could guess what they are, maybe not, or more than likely maybe you don't care.
    How about we do this: we shall hangeth a man and bind him, mouth and hands, and covereth his face, round about make a noose and shall snap his neck and waiteth until his feet stop kickething for stealing a horse.
    or,
    We shall tieth a man down to chair and zappeth electricity until his eyes poppeth out and extrudeth out of his skull until he is deadeth.
    And on and on...

    The old testament and it's teachings, 'eye for an eye', etc., and the history of man's wrong at that time and the way God dealt with his people is what it is. The old testament and it's history of God, man, Lucifer, angels, fallen angels, creation, wickedness, goodness, ... and the predictions and prophecy of the new testament is what a common Christian should be focusing on. Not how we can bring back old testament laws, and apply them today. The apparent contradictions between the old and new testament are just that, apparent. You can open up, take a verse, out of the old and then say, look, it says to kill a man for working on the sabbath. But open the new and says, no, you should forgive your neighbor 70 times 7. Turn the other cheek, Forgive, love.... etc. What would your God given conscience tell you to do? Is the bible contradicting itself? Of course not, you must look at the entire scope and the good and hope that comes from it.

    The new testament. Why were there so many parables as a method of teaching? Hardened hearts? Like yourself?
    Those seeing would see and those seeing not would see not.

    I personally see the old testament as a history of man, evil and good and the way God dealt with wickedness, sin, etc. - and it's future prophecies.
    This is certainly a view not just held by myself and myself alone.
     
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